Enforced ZT MAP, will you give Benchmade a second look?

[hardheart]

My point, and the question of the topic, is the enforcement of MAP. MAP was ignored specifically because it reduced the competitive landscape for competing business. The enforcement is apparently not benefiting anyone, looking at any comments for either ZT or BM. Are they selling to more people, or perhaps to less? Are they going to sell as often, or will they move fewer units over the same time frame? Why do something that does not provide benefit? Higher prices do not benefit end users, retailers, or even the manufacturer if they maintain their wholesale prices.

I certainly believe in accountability, and poor business practices will certainly be held accountable. "Because they said so" is never sufficient justification, and should never be taken as such. If and when a policy creates a conflict between your suppliers and your customers, you will likely have to implement a change. Depending on the goods sold, the supplier is often the one switched out, because it generally isn't as easy to capture a whole new segment of customers.

 

[EDCanAdamas]

MAP is a guideline that generally is surrounding a standardized price. Most often dealers are allowed to offer coupons or have sales to lower the MAP temporarily.

So its okay according to RPM/MAP to allow "temporary" coupon codes/sales? Then why have we not seen this with Benchmade? Do you really expect to see it with ZT after they have "dropped the hammer" on some of the competitive online dealers? The only offers I have seen to make the sale of once reasonably priced Griptilians somewhat reasonable again were when the dealer was willing to throw in a free sharpener. This is why its so hard for me to take a second look at Benchmade, although the new Strykers are tempting.

 

[squarebox86]

Enforcing MAP just because smaller businesses complain they cant compete is wrong. No doubt breaking the agreement is wrong as well but the hard truth is smaller businesses cant compete because they have a lousy business model.

Dont believe me? Just take a look at Goinggear. They dont always have the best prices as compared to the bigger dealers but Marshall value-added his business simply taking the time to make great and informative reviews videos. Now look at where he is, continuously expanding and going into different products. Come on, just look at quality of some of the other sites, they are barely even usable. They cant expect to sit on their behind and expect money to roll in just like that. That's not how you run a business.

Back to topic,
The only BM that I considering paying for is Doug Ritter series. Even before MAP, I always felt BM to be pricey and now it's just insane. BM is now on my list of "avoid like the plague".

 

[Rival1314]

your grammatical prowess is masking your own misunderstanding. ZT is "Enforcing" MAP, meaning dealers already had MAP agreements in place and they were in breach. Do you not believe in accountability? If the dealer agreed to a set of rules for selling and marketing a product then they need to find ways within those rules to do business, or not be a dealer. Again, actually read my comments...they havent been told they cannot have sales or offer temporary discounts...the issue is advertised permanent pricing below MAP of newly released products.

You have yet to articulate a way in which fixing the price of a ZT knife helps the sellers. How it helps the sellers who already know how to keep their costs low and generate a profit. The sellers who don't overextend and can manage their inventories. Since when did they need help in calculating their prices?

Whats your point, why would i need to explain how this benefits the sellers?? Im not arguing for the dealers, Im pointing out the reasons why a manufacturer would set a pricepoint for their products to be sold. Stop trying to throw shade....excuse me....obfuscate the crux of my argument by trying to come at it from yet another angle for which i have never attempted to defend.

You arent going to turn me, nor am i going to turn you. Best of luck to you in all your future endeavors, perhaps we can simply agree that sharp pointy things are cool and move on.

 

[mqqn]

Please enlighten us as to why Howes discontinued selling the ZT line. You seem to have all the answers regarding hypothetical marketing senerios. What is your opinion re:Howes?

They were not willing to follow the rules?

best

mqqn

 

[mqqn]

I think I'm finally understanding some of the comments in this thread. All it took was wearing the right hat.

The corporate oligarchy is suppressing the masses via MAP.

That seems to be it.

How dare a company try to succeed. Not in our country!

best

mqqn

 

[salmonkiller]

I wonder how many dealers will agree to the map policies when the current agreement expires. Seems reasonable to me that if they dealers stand together and insist on not accepting any type of map agreement,then they would have controll over their business model.

 

[mqqn]

I wonder how many dealers will agree to the map policies when the current agreement expires. Seems reasonable to me that if they dealers stand together and insist on not accepting any type of map agreement,then they would have controll over their business model.

I think Kai is telling dealers they cannot advertise a cost lower than MAP, and they can't have a "place it in your cart for a better deal" cost, because that is essentially advertising a cheaper price.

Not sure why folks are getting their panties in a bunch over this.

We all love knives. Most of us BUY knives.

Yes, almost nobody wants to pay more than they have to, everyone loves a deal.

Map is still 20% off of retail.

I can only assume some of you have never bought a new car if you think a 20% discount is not a good reduction over MSRP.

I like that the folks in this thread have been able to not stoop to name calling, thank you all for that.

There is even some humor in the thread.

best

mqqn

 

[Sonnydaze]

I was happy to get a ZT 0770CF at the pre-Map price, and would not have ordered it at the new MAP pricing. Does that suggest that the new pricing program is not always a good thing for the manufacturer or the reseller?
Sonnydaze

 

[hardheart]

How dare a company try to succeed. Not in our country!

Apparently, as companies are not allowed to set prices for the items they own. Competition is apparently bad, and it is better to make everyone the same so no one has to feel as if they come up short. Special bonus in that it increases the costs for the consumer, that's always an improvement.

 

[craytab]

Apparently, as companies are not allowed to set prices for the items they own.

This is important. I may not agree with the prices but I respect the right for a company to set their own price. I am not force to pay them for their product. If the knife is worth the price for me then I will buy it. Very simple.

 

[o4tg]

I sold off most of my KAI collection recently, and this has prompted me to sell the rest. If dealers set MAP's it's illegal. If manufacturers do it is legal. To me, if KAI wants to control the food on their dealer's tables, they should just raise the cost of their knives. Most of the best ZT deals weren't from large chains anyways. They were from the small shops who now won't be able to compete. Large outfits like Blade HQ and Cabelas are the ones who benefit from price fixing, not the small guys who would for less profit. Prime example (even though he won't admit it) is KershawGuy. Do you really think blem sales will remain constant when they're priced within 10% of unblemmed? Now that he can't sell non blems as cheap, people are going to flock to auction sites.

I used to be a huge KAI fan. In fact, I used to be one of the many people like those in this thread who would defend them like any criticism offended my own personal honor. Not no more. They can keep their small dealer screw over plan and overpriced 3CR knives. I'm sure a fanboi will be along to call me names for that, but at the end if the day I vote with my dollar and what products I choose to rely on. That won't be a KAI product anytime soon. I have a nasty Gerber taste in my mouth from all this, and I think KAI has gone too corporate. I wish them the best, but I'm no longer a fan. Who ever the bean counters are have put a black eye on the company's prestige for the sake of money, and money alone. Yes, making money is the goal, but the things that drew me to KAI originally have now shriveled up into something I don't even recognize as my favorite brand.

 

[Daniel]

I stopped buying Benchmade knives due to MAP pricing.

I will stop buying ZT knives now due to MAP pricing. I don't really care what knives they offer.

This is not open market action and it is price fixing--nothing more and nothing less. The manufacturer is controlling the price. This is not competition.

 

[craytab]

This is not open market action and it is price fixing--nothing more and nothing less. The manufacturer is controlling the price. [

My goodness! You mean to tell me that a manufacturer is determining the price they ask for their product? How dare they...

 

[PG5768]

I sold off most of my KAI collection recently and this has prompted me to sell the rest. ... I vote with my dollar and what products I choose to rely on. That won't be a KAI product anytime soon.

...I will stop buying ZT knives now due to MAP pricing. ...

Not one I agree with.

Luckily we'll now have fewer people complaining about Kershaw and ZT products since it sounds like several folks in this thread (including the 2 quoted above) are refusing to buy them anymore and are even clearing out their collection. Bonus.

 

[Daniel]

My goodness! You mean to tell me that a manufacturer is determining the price they ask for their product? How dare they...

No, they are demanding that the retailer can only sell for a specific price or higher for their product. That is price fixing.

 

[o4tg]

My goodness! You mean to tell me that a manufacturer is determining the price they ask for their product? How dare they...

There's a big difference between setting the price you charge dealers wholesale, and controlling the profit margins of your dealers when they sell retail. That is not free market. If a dealer wants to sell an 0801 for $2,000 or $20, that's his choice. He has already paid for the product after all, so it has absolutely no impact on KAI.

If it was to address gouging, they'd have set a maximum instead.

 

[salmonkiller]

There are many of opinions and facts how this price fixing will effect Dealers and Kai/BM.My question is how does the consumer benefit from price fixing.I just can't wrap my head around how this is good for those who shell out our hard earned money for knives.Eliminating competition almost never results in a higher quality product and bang for the buck for the consumer.

 

[jmhallrn]

I have a question. If it is Minimum ADVERTISED Pricing, can a dealer still choose to sell a knife for less than MAP if a customer asks? From what I've read here, this is similar to the policies many industries use that result in ads saying "prices too low to show". That does not stop retailers from selling at considerable discounts.

 

[Scurvy092]

I have a question. If it is Minimum ADVERTISED Pricing, can a dealer still choose to sell a knife for less than MAP if a customer asks? From what I've read here, this is similar to the policies many industries use that result in ads saying "prices too low to show". That does not stop retailers from selling at considerable discounts.

Holy smokes. Logic enters this thread.

I don't think anyone has the exact details but I believe that KAI's issue was with the prevalence of Add Cart to see Price which they considered a breech of MAP since you are basically saying 'look here, I'm selling it for less than MAP'.

We'll see if dealers get creative adding coupon codes or running sales if they are allowed to.

Then again, if all the dealers can now charge more money and push the blame onto KAI, there's not much incentive for them to start discounting again.