Fake Knife Philosophy In China

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Neo said:
We all know Reate, Kizer, Stedemon and Carson (altough I understand Carson only design the knives)
Next there are makers like L.W (leeway), infiner, Y-start, eagles ling, wind blade, Hong Kong MG, Black Dragon, Bolt, Green Thorn...

What I 'm interested in are A Dai, Kevin John and Wild Boar.
I know they can deliver very high quality knives and also have some own designs.
Are they 3 separate companies?
Some say A Dai make the best knives other claim Kevin John.
If Kevin John is just a person, does he contract some company to make his knives?

We all know CKF (custom knife factory) has their parts manufactured in China.
These parts are extremely good made.
Do you know what company makes them, are they related to let's say A Dai?
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you are welcome !
do you know there is a word we called it Trade secret ?
If you were a Chinese and log on abroad forums to tell all the Trade secret to the foreigners ， wouid you do it?
and if you did this , how do you think your fellows would describe & treat you ?
i come here is want to say some about fake knives , do not wanna talk about makers's secret.
sorry about that man.
 
dingy said:
you are welcome !
do you know there is a word we called it Trade secret ?
If you were a Chinese and log on abroad forums to tell all the Trade secret to the foreigners ， wouid you do it?
and if you did this , how do you think your fellows would describe & treat you ?
i come here is want to say some about fake knives , do not wanna talk about makers's secret.
sorry about that man.
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I fully understand this.
Only one question I hope you are willing to answer.

To produce knives of great quality at high tolerances you need very good (expensive) equipment.
Are there multiple companies with this infrastructure or just one?
 
Neo said:
I fully understand this.
Only one question I hope you are willing to answer.

To produce knives of great quality at high tolerances you need very good (expensive) equipment.
Are there multiple companies with this infrastructure or just one?
Click to expand...

what i know is that those brands out-sourced some of the parts , and i do not think there is only one company can do parts of knives that with great quality at high tolerances .
 
Dingy, I thank you for the information about the chinese kitchen / vegetable knife(ves). It makes for some interesting internet searches. If I can get one of good quality, it will be fun experimenting with it in the kitchen. At least this is some authentic chinese stuff. The Shinlin knife posted by Oregon is also a good hint. I found some of the chinese kitchen knives available in Germany but they are made by Tokio Kitchenware... doesn't sound that Chinese to me. The steel they use (5Cr15Mov), is another riddle I will have to investigate. As I have no interest at all in the subject of fakes / clones, I will be out and wish you well on BladeForums.
 
Not trying to derail the thread, but a couple of days back I've stumbled across an article on why reading, especially SF, is good for youngsters. Below you have British author Neil Gaiman providing a potential answer on why so many fakes (cutlery industry included) are coming out of China.

I was in China in 2007, at the first party-approved science fiction and fantasy convention in Chinese history. And at one point I took a top official aside and asked him Why? SF had been disapproved of for a long time. What had changed?

It's simple, he told me. The Chinese were brilliant at making things if other people brought them the plans. But they did not innovate and they did not invent. They did not imagine. So they sent a delegation to the US, to Apple, to Microsoft, to Google, and they asked the people there who were inventing the future about themselves. And they found that all of them had read science fiction when they were boys or girls.

For those interested, the full article is here
 
Food for thought, indeed. Coming from a land who has made many a fundamental technologic breakthrough (paper, ceramic, gunpowder, high performance steel, silk...) while we still wallowed in our dark ages...
 
Thanks again for all the information you provided, dingy. I hope you continue to be a good resource for us to gain a better understanding of the Chinese cutlery industry.

I had planned to continue my line of questioning but I wanted to give you a breather before I did. Neo beat me to it, however. So now I don't have to ask you the A Dai/Kevin John/Wild Boar connection question or the infrastructure question.

I know I pressed you pretty hard and I suspect it's difficult for you to be as forthcoming as you might like to be. But any visibility we can gain into the workings of the largest nation by population on Earth is meaningful as far as I'm concerned. You've already addressed them.

I'd still like to know why China hasn't gone after manufacturers of fake knives. Like Gimmick, I assume it has to do with the Communist concept of shared/collective property being at odds with the Western concept of intellectual property. But I always prefer facts to assumptions, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. This is the last time I'll ask, however. If you're not comfortable answering the question, I understand.

PS: A note of thanks to the Mods for letting this thread ride is in order. I realize that the topic of this thread is touchy. But I can't think of too many threads I've been involved since I've been here that are more important than this one. The direction we're heading in is East of where we are right now and it's gaining traction. Spark's willingness to let companies like Reate and Kizer set up shop here is a sign of things to come. Best if we know what to expect when we get there.
 
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craytab said:
Stolen design of a PM2 with Counterfeit axis lock. :barf: This is what you support when you buy a Ganzo.
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Understood. But the train is heading East and it's a lot bigger than you are. Good luck trying to stop it.
 
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craytab said:
Stolen design of a PM2 with Counterfeit axis lock. :barf: This is what you support when you buy a Ganzo.
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Agreed. Just slapping ones name on it does not "fix" things. If Burger King starts selling Big Macs in a Burger King box, its still ripping off McDonalds.

If the train is heading east to Counterfeitville, then I may not be able to stop it, but I'm sure as heck not going to embrace it, and go on about their the quality of their counterfeits and how cool they are for putting their names on ripped off lock designs.
 
marcinek said:
If the train is heading east to Counterfeitville, then I may not be able to stop it.
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It appears you're on the wrong track. The big train's right behind you. If you miss it, you can pick it up in the Manufacturers Forums. Try again . . .

All aboard! :)
 
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I am not interested in the big train you're talking about. That train is in your mind and a whole lot of people's... Doesn't make it a better thing, by the way.
 
marcinek said:
Agreed. Just slapping ones name on it does not "fix" things. If Burger King starts selling Big Macs in a Burger King box, its still ripping off McDonalds.

If the train is heading east to Counterfeitville, then I may not be able to stop it, but I'm sure as heck not going to embrace it, and go on about their the quality of their counterfeits and how cool they are for putting their names on ripped off lock designs.
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Marcinek, quit being a stick in the mud! It's not a counterfeit, and it's not a big mac in a burger king box!

It's like a chalupa with a big mac inside, with "AmerMex" written on the box.

Try to keep up. In your example, McDonald's product would be ripped off but BK would have it's packaging/branding ripped off. Here, it's two products being ripped off but the packaging/branding is left alone.

Zero
 
marcinek said:
If Burger King starts selling Big Macs in a Burger King box, its still ripping off McDonalds.
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I think discussing counterfeit Big Macs is a much more interesting discussion to be had; BK ripped of Mickey D's with the Big King. I mean, who cares about fake knives when we still don't know what that "Special Sauce" consists of!:D
 
Blues, you're a master of refined irony !
Whatever, back on track (or not), I'd like to know if authentic home made chinese brands (of whatever kind of knife) have importers in Europe ? (This one is for you, Dingy).
And this one is for 42Blades : is there an importer in the Western World for the Chan Chi Kee range of kitchen knives ?
 
Cobalt said:
Dingy, how about giving us your impression of your knife industry in China, the why's and the ins and outs. I would love to read it, no matter how long it is.
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You are my friend , cool guy Cobalt !
Theoretically , China has the most strict law on knife control , but it fails in practice actually.

Controlled Knives, according to the Standard for Defining Controlled Knives refers to the daggers、 triangular knives、switchblades (OTF) and other similiar single-edged, double-edged, triangular daggers. Since minorities living habits need to wear,use Cangdao,Yao Dao,boots knives are controlled knives,except in the autonomous areas sale,and use.
According to the Ministry of public security,1983 provisions of second to seventh of the Provisional Regulations on the implementation of the control of the cutting tools that control cutting tool wear range and production, purchase and sale have statutory procedures.
YangJang is a cutlery center in China , mainly producing kitchen knives and scissors , most of your cheap imported kitchen knives and sicssors are made in YangJang.
YangJang kitchen knives and scissors are high quality and inexpensive, Many famous brands in the world are OEM here.
Unfortunately, there are some uneducated people who build up small workshops and they can not get enough orders in the competition with bigger companies. In order to survive ,they have to exploit excess capacity, so they make controlled knives behind closed doors.
Cuz there are the most strict low on knife control theoretically , and Small workshops has no business license to make control knives legally, so operator of boss of those small workshops do not dare to use their own names. Production fake knives has become a natural product of a natural choice.
Then what is the most easy way to make money from make fake knives ? a simple answer is that coping the most famous and popular knives. Another reason that they make fake knives is that there are lots of buyer who can not offer authentic knives in China.
There are very strong local protectionism in YangJang that bureaucrats and police tend to an attitude of accommodation and indulgent. So those guys can illegal manufacturing and transportation controlled knives safely in most of the time.
Recently there is a good trend that some ambitious guys they use their own name make and sell knives to overseas via internet ,like what Reate did.



For learn more about control knife in China , plz read this page ,

http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=SvZ...3ZtKrbF3UkSVo7VdRl7ZiVDqUDPEfNKhqOrOOFHNUpCbq
 
Neo said:
We all know Reate, Kizer, Stedemon and Carson (altough I understand Carson only design the knives)
Next there are makers like L.W (leeway), infiner, Y-start, eagles ling, wind blade, Hong Kong MG, Black Dragon, Bolt, Green Thorn...

What I 'm interested in are A Dai, Kevin John and Wild Boar.
I know they can deliver very high quality knives and also have some own designs.
Are they 3 separate companies?
Some say A Dai make the best knives other claim Kevin John.
If Kevin John is just a person, does he contract some company to make his knives?

We all know CKF (custom knife factory) has their parts manufactured in China.
These parts are extremely good made.
Do you know what company makes them, are they related to let's say A Dai?
Click to expand...

If I am correct, A dai is a person. Didn't he/she copy zt0777 back to some time ago? Yes - I'm also interested in knowing the answer to the last question: was/is A dai related to any of the Chinese knife manufacturers mentioned in this thread.

dingy?
 
I hate to be a "stuck in the mud" as well but there seems to be a level of justification for the counterfeiting. Putting their own name on a counterfeit equals counterfeiting even if it's just the intellectual property. If I was questioning the abilities and motives of any manufacturer I can guarantee you I would never buy a product from them.

If a company can't be upfront about their practices then shrug them off. Seems simple. I am however very intrigued by the Chinese culture with knives.
 
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