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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
How do you guys feel about China copies?
- Thread starter xperiaarcs
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woody d
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I built this from cardboard and it helped me to decide to get a red G-10 scale on my new XM-18 (Hinderer made)
i caught a giggly on that one
I've owned a Porsche 911. Great car!
Cutting out a knife to spec from cardboard in order to get an idea of how the handle will fit your hand,
how the blade shape will suit your needs and so on is actually very helpful if you can't fondle the real deal. Try it!
Interestingly, car designers make clay models of cars before making prototypes, so go figure.
I think it would be best to distinguish the different types of copies so as to minimize further confusion.
Please help me:
*Knockoffs (exactly the same design with logos and everything)
*Copies (very similar design, but with obvious differences and no logos etc.)
*Hybrid Copies (many popular designs mashed into one, with a bias toward one design)
*Redesign (homage) of another design which holds no patents
Are there any more categories?
Cutting out a knife to spec from cardboard in order to get an idea of how the handle will fit your hand,
how the blade shape will suit your needs and so on is actually very helpful if you can't fondle the real deal. Try it!
Interestingly, car designers make clay models of cars before making prototypes, so go figure.
I think it would be best to distinguish the different types of copies so as to minimize further confusion.
Please help me:
*Knockoffs (exactly the same design with logos and everything)
*Copies (very similar design, but with obvious differences and no logos etc.)
*Hybrid Copies (many popular designs mashed into one, with a bias toward one design)
*Redesign (homage) of another design which holds no patents
Are there any more categories?
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I think there's a pretty big difference between a $7 SRM 710 and a real Sebenza. The SRM 710 doesn't have Sebenza markings or even pretend to be a Sebenza. It looks sort of like a small Sebenza, but the F&F, materials, tolerances, and quality really isn't there, despite what a ton of people on this site seem to think. Cheap stainless scales, cheap 8cr steel, cheap construction...I carried it a couple times and tossed it in a box. I paid around $5 for it so I guess I got what I paid for. I wanted to see what the fuss was about and honestly I don't really get it, but that's a topic for another thread.
Knives that copy logos and entire designs in order to pretend to be the real deal are examples of theft and I won't buy them. I can't afford CRK knives right now. Maybe I'll get one in the future, maybe not. I'd rather drop $120 on a nice ZT or Spyderco than support people putting out blatant fakes. I bought a Gayle Bradley, Military and ZT 0350 and didn't pay more than $120 for any of them. There are plenty of fantastic knives in the $100 range so I don't see the appeal of the so-called "high end" fakes. Chinese fakes are harmful to the knife community and hurt markers' business. Why buy fakes from disreputable companies when you can get excellent knives in the same price range? It doesn't make any sense.
^^ Clones: Exactly same design with no logos or non affiliated logos
Because to a lot of people, the design of the "fake" is more appealing than what is available at the same price.
I don't condone buying blatant knockoffs which attempt to be the real deal via deception. I do however have a copy of a Tai Pan and a real one.
A person must be completely ignorant though, to think that a new 15-dollar knife is authentic if the real one costs well over 300 dollars or whatever.
Here's a comparison:
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Good post ! ^
1234,,,,,
Gracias! I was hoping it wasn't too much of a rant.
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You could be right about me misconstruing the anti-clone argument. When I think of 'Chinese Copies', I think of things along the lines of Sanrenmu or Ganzo knives - these knives are branded under their own names and are generally straight-forward about the materials and such they use, but frequently use designs or mechanisms which are identical to knives from other manufacturers.
For example, I just bought this Ganzo G704.
It's almost identical to the Benchmade 14205. I would say that it's a direct copy, or a clone.
(Apologies if these photos belong to you folks)
That's pretty much what I've been talking about in this thread. To me, that's an example of a direct clone/copy/knockoff, and I figured that's what the OP and most other folks were referring to.
EDIT: I guess a lot of folks are talking about items which are passed off as originals, sold for the price of originals, carry falsified logos and watermarks, etc. and may not even consider re-branded (or whatever term you'd like to use) knives like Sanrenmu or Enlan knives to be 'knockoffs'.
Also, as an aside, I've been farting around with this knife since I got it the other day and I'm pretty friggin' impressed. I've owned 180$ American knives that weren't this well made. I shredded a pop can with it the other day to see if the steel was liable to chip the way I found 8cr13 to do, and I was surprised to find that the edge held up quite well indeed. It was easy enough to sharpen, but isn't buttery-soft as I had feared. I don't have a very hard time believing it's made of 440c as advertised (thus far, anyway). Working the action a bunch has caused it to smooth out a little, to boot, so it's quite pleasant to use so far. Hope to put it through its paces at work next week and see how it holds up doing actual chores. :thumbup:
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I understood your point, it just has no-viable-place here. You can throw around whatever analogies your want, but it doesn't mean they pertain to the discussion. We aren't talking about cheap alternatives, we are discussing knock-offs and fakes.
I won't say as to whether or not I agree with the entire integrity argument, I will say that I agree with not asking women about their designer hand bags. Women are predatory shoppers. All they care about-truly-is showing off the name brand. There is no pride of ownership with women and designer clothes, to be honest. Most women purchase these items as a way of internal-gender competition. Thus, they only need to put the LV image out there and have other women believe-for a short period of time, even-that they own the genuine purse or handbag. I think men tend toward pride-of-ownership in a much greater capacity than do women. I would say the Rolex argument is much closer to the knife argument as mostly men purchase Rolex watches.
<<removed by marcinek....ahh forget it.>>
No one needs Chris Reeve's permission. There are no design or utility patents on the Sebenza. SRM can produce all of the clones they want. As far as I could tell, CRK's trademarks are all expired too. Again, I didn't look too hard for trademark infringement as I think selling a fake Sebenza and marketing it as anything other than a "fake" or "Sebenza-style" knife is taking things too far since it results in people buying something that they never would have bought otherwise.
Obviously there are exceptions to every rule.
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Just get a SAK or Case Sodbuster and call it a day, spend your hard earned money on things you need.
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You can get a ZT 350 blem in the $80 ballpark (sorry if this has been mentioned already, read the first couple pages then skipped to the end)
You get an original, trademarked, legit knife from an extremely good company.
Oh yeah and the knife itself is absolutely bada$$
Spend your money on the real thing. I would take a $30 skyline over a $50 knock off any day, I'd actually take a $30 skyline over a lot of things for that matter.... in fact, just buy a skyline!
You get an original, trademarked, legit knife from an extremely good company.
Oh yeah and the knife itself is absolutely bada$$
Spend your money on the real thing. I would take a $30 skyline over a $50 knock off any day, I'd actually take a $30 skyline over a lot of things for that matter.... in fact, just buy a skyline!
I did a little bit of research as well and it seems that design patents last 14 years and other patents 17 or 20 years. If a patent has run out, nobody can call it "thievery" or "stealing" etc., because it isn't. It's free for all to copy if there is no patent and you can even copy a name if there is no trademark etc. If someone thinks it's stealing for whatever sentimental reasons, then that is their prerogative, but it has nothing to do with what is legal or not.
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It is not about the quality of the knives. I actually liked that someone tried to define "knock off" v/s "copy" v/s "clone".
Its about passing something off as what it isn't. If the damn strider clone is so good, why not make a few changes in the design that wont affect its effectiveness or cool factor negatively and re-brand it? The idea is to utilize the emotional equity (read- brand value) built up by Chris Reeves or Giorgio Armani to sell the fake product. I have a lot of Chinese knives. Un-branded stuff as well as known knife companies with products manufactured in China. They manufacture in China for purely economic reasons. I see nothing wrong with that either. The problem is when they steal the name and brand of someone who has been through the trouble of building it in the first place. That is what I and I believe everyone must take exception to. Sanrenmu might not claim to make a Sebenza but their product is clearly and obviously a copy of it. Again if you can be original enough to make a knife well and out of good material with good tolerances why cant you make the effort to promote it as what it is? To throw a little jargon around, its called diseconomy of time compression. It is impossible for them to achieve the emotional equity of a known brand in the time and money they have to make and sell these knives in any significant numbers to be profitable. They simply steal the equity of others and utilize the purchase drive of the less knowledgeable and yes, less ethically inclined.
By all means buy whatever you want. It definitely is your money and no one can tell you what to do with it. Bu there is so much out there that does NOT expressly steal someone's intellectual property. Take a look...............and glory be to the internet and Al Gore who invented it.
Its about passing something off as what it isn't. If the damn strider clone is so good, why not make a few changes in the design that wont affect its effectiveness or cool factor negatively and re-brand it? The idea is to utilize the emotional equity (read- brand value) built up by Chris Reeves or Giorgio Armani to sell the fake product. I have a lot of Chinese knives. Un-branded stuff as well as known knife companies with products manufactured in China. They manufacture in China for purely economic reasons. I see nothing wrong with that either. The problem is when they steal the name and brand of someone who has been through the trouble of building it in the first place. That is what I and I believe everyone must take exception to. Sanrenmu might not claim to make a Sebenza but their product is clearly and obviously a copy of it. Again if you can be original enough to make a knife well and out of good material with good tolerances why cant you make the effort to promote it as what it is? To throw a little jargon around, its called diseconomy of time compression. It is impossible for them to achieve the emotional equity of a known brand in the time and money they have to make and sell these knives in any significant numbers to be profitable. They simply steal the equity of others and utilize the purchase drive of the less knowledgeable and yes, less ethically inclined.
By all means buy whatever you want. It definitely is your money and no one can tell you what to do with it. Bu there is so much out there that does NOT expressly steal someone's intellectual property. Take a look...............and glory be to the internet and Al Gore who invented it.
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Well yes I guess if the patents have legally expired, he no longer needs to expressly permit anyone. Isn't it people who want a Sebenza and cant afford it who buy the Sanrenmu. If the Sanrenmu had an original design I doubt they would sell 20% of the knives they move today.
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