How do you guys feel about China copies?

[unit]

I think I understand now.

 

[cziv]

以前我也买过用过仿品，很多中国的刀友都是从仿品开始，因为无论中国的社会环境也好，人文环境也好，对刀还是有一些管制的，正因为这样，在美国或者欧洲甚至是日本很容易买到的刀，到了中国就很难见到，就算是有卖的会比原价高很多，比如一把spyderco的vg10钢材的enduora，在美国的价格是50美元左右，而到了中国就是600左右人民币，相当于90多美元，这个价格超出了很多刀友的承受范围，于是，就有一些小加工厂为了谋取利润，生产一些仿制品，以低廉的价格或者是比正品价格低很多的价格卖给中国的刀友。另外，你们也知道，想三刃木和naby的折刀，这些刀厂刚开始起步，还缺乏自己的设计风格等等一些意识和技术，所以他们也是以一些像benchmade、spyderco或者是sog等等品牌的经典的型号作为设计参考，但是现在他们也已经意识到这个问题，开始自己设计开发。
现在在中国的一些刀具爱好者的论坛，都已经标明不允许讨论仿制品，因为仿制品对中国的刀具行业和刀具爱好者的伤害要远比对你们的要大很多，因为他们使中国的刀具市场充满了各种的劣质的仿制品，使三刃木等刀厂受到很大的冲击，其次，他们使中国的刀具设计缺少自己的特色，只是一味的仿制别人的作品。
现在在中国，随着跟多的人成为刀具爱好者，刀具市场也在慢慢的正规起来，很多刀友已经不再购买仿制品，而且开始抵制仿制品。
我没法不让那些小作坊生产那些低劣的仿制品，我只能从自己做起，抵制仿制品，购买和使用正品。我相信如果大家都不购买，或者抵制那些低劣的仿制品，也就不会有人再去生产他们。
另外，我是蜘蛛的粉丝。

Nice reply to my email that you promised would be forthcoming. I spent the time to write as you requested and this is my reply? I hope not.

 

[stoffi]

Translation (Google Translate):

I also bought a used imitation goods, many Chinese knife Friends of Imitation, because both China and the social environment, human environment or the knife or have some control, precisely because of this, in the U.S.or Europe or even Japan is very easy to buy a knife to China is difficult to see, even if it will sell much higher than the original, such as a spyderco vg10 steel enduora price in the United States is about $ 50.to China is about 600 yuan, equivalent to more than 90 U.S. dollars, this price exceeds the many knife Friends of the tolerance range, so there are a number of small processing plants in order to reap the profits, production of some imitation, at a low price or genuineprices much lower price to sell the knife Friends of. Also, you know, think three blade wood and naby the knife, the knife factory just started, and also the lack of their own design style, and so some awareness and, so they also like the benchmade, spyderco or sog, etc. the classic model of the brand as a design reference, but now they have realized this problem, start their own design and development.
Some tool enthusiast forum, have been marked to permit discussion of imitation because imitation Chinese tool industry and tool enthusiasts damage than your larger, because they are the tool of Chinese the market is full of a variety of low-grade imitation, three-blade wooden knife factory a great impact, they make the tool design to the lack of its own characteristics, just blind imitation of others' works.
In China, as the tool enthusiasts with more people become, the tool market is slowly formal up a lot of knife Friends of the no longer buy the imitation, and began to resist imitation.
I can not let those small workshop production of a poor imitation, starting with ourselves, I can only resist imitation, purchasing and using genuine. I believe that if we do not buy or boycott those poor imitation, would not they go to production.
Also, I was a fan of spiders.

以前我也买过用过仿品，很多中国的刀友都是从仿品开始，因为无论中国的社会环境也好，人文环境也好，对刀还 是有一些管制的，正因为这样，在美国或者欧洲甚至是日本很容易买到的刀，到了中国就很难见到，就算是有卖的 会比原价高很多，比如一把spyderco的vg10钢材的enduora，在美国的价格是50美元左右， 而到了中国就是600左右人民币，相当于90多美元，这个价格超出了很多刀友的承受范围，于是，就有一些小 加工厂为了谋取利润，生产一些仿制品，以低廉的价格或者是比正品价格低很多的价格卖给中国的刀友。另外，你 们也知道，想三刃木和naby的折刀，这些刀厂刚开始起步，还缺乏自己的设计风格等等一些意识和技术，所以 他们也是以一些像benchmade、spyderco或者是sog等等品牌的经典的型号作为设计参考，但 是现在他们也已经意识到这个问题，开始自己设计开发。
现在在中国的一些刀具爱好者的论坛，都已经标明不允许讨论仿制品，因为仿制品对中国的刀具行业和刀具爱好者 的伤害要远比对你们的要大很多，因为他们使中国的刀具市场充满了各种的劣质的仿制品，使三刃木等刀厂受到很 大的冲击，其次，他们使中国的刀具设计缺少自己的特色，只是一味的仿制别人的作品。
现在在中国，随着跟多的人成为刀具爱好者，刀具市场也在慢慢的正规起来，很多刀友已经不再购买仿制品，而且 开始抵制仿制品。
我没法不让那些小作坊生产那些低劣的仿制品，我只能从自己做起，抵制仿制品，购买和使用正品。我相信如果大 家都不购买，或者抵制那些低劣的仿制品，也就不会有人再去生产他们。
另外，我是蜘蛛的粉丝。

 

[Chipped Karambit]

Nice reply to my email that you promised would be forthcoming. I spent the time to write as you requested and this is my reply? I hope not.

I used to date a chinese girl and I know japanese. What i can tell it is an excuse trying to justify the counterfeit market.

(To chaungchee
How can you be a spyderco fan if you don't want to buy one and prefer knock offs? Sure you can get an endura for 50 dollars in us and 90 bucks in china but if you look right places you can get for 150 in us and 50 in china. Trust me I am in south east asia now, If I wanted a waved delica it would cost me around 70-90 bucks but honestly without I could find cheaper. An excuse is an excuse

Claiming a knife factory didnt have any designs and liked sog benchmade spyderco etc is a bad excuse. Oh I am a writer so let me rewrite old man in the sea and market it as my own to make money off his brilliance. Also starting their own design with the stamp of another company both is bad move on their part and ruins the name of the real company

No not just protest "Poor imitations" protest them all. Honestly that is like saying, Hey I support you as long as you make closer knockoffs to the original so you can make a larger profit margin and take more from the geniuses that spent the time and effort to make the original?

Honestly, My ex GF was chinese, she at least has some class and rocks a real g10 dragonfly.

 

[Chipped Karambit]

Translation (Google Translate):

I also bought a used imitation goods, many Chinese knife Friends of Imitation, because both China and the social environment, human environment or the knife or have some control, precisely because of this, in the U.S.or Europe or even Japan is very easy to buy a knife to China is difficult to see, even if it will sell much higher than the original, such as a spyderco vg10 steel enduora price in the United States is about $ 50.to China is about 600 yuan, equivalent to more than 90 U.S. dollars, this price exceeds the many knife Friends of the tolerance range, so there are a number of small processing plants in order to reap the profits, production of some imitation, at a low price or genuineprices much lower price to sell the knife Friends of. Also, you know, think three blade wood and naby the knife, the knife factory just started, and also the lack of their own design style, and so some awareness and, so they also like the benchmade, spyderco or sog, etc. the classic model of the brand as a design reference, but now they have realized this problem, start their own design and development.
Some tool enthusiast forum, have been marked to permit discussion of imitation because imitation Chinese tool industry and tool enthusiasts damage than your larger, because they are the tool of Chinese the market is full of a variety of low-grade imitation, three-blade wooden knife factory a great impact, they make the tool design to the lack of its own characteristics, just blind imitation of others' works.
In China, as the tool enthusiasts with more people become, the tool market is slowly formal up a lot of knife Friends of the no longer buy the imitation, and began to resist imitation.
I can not let those small workshop production of a poor imitation, starting with ourselves, I can only resist imitation, purchasing and using genuine. I believe that if we do not buy or boycott those poor imitation, would not they go to production.
Also, I was a fan of spiders.

以前我也买过用过仿品，很多中国的刀友都是从仿品开始，因为无论中国的社会环境也好，人文环境也好，对刀还 是有一些管制的，正因为这样，在美国或者欧洲甚至是日本很容易买到的刀，到了中国就很难见到，就算是有卖的 会比原价高很多，比如一把spyderco的vg10钢材的enduora，在美国的价格是50美元左右， 而到了中国就是600左右人民币，相当于90多美元，这个价格超出了很多刀友的承受范围，于是，就有一些小 加工厂为了谋取利润，生产一些仿制品，以低廉的价格或者是比正品价格低很多的价格卖给中国的刀友。另外，你 们也知道，想三刃木和naby的折刀，这些刀厂刚开始起步，还缺乏自己的设计风格等等一些意识和技术，所以 他们也是以一些像benchmade、spyderco或者是sog等等品牌的经典的型号作为设计参考，但 是现在他们也已经意识到这个问题，开始自己设计开发。
现在在中国的一些刀具爱好者的论坛，都已经标明不允许讨论仿制品，因为仿制品对中国的刀具行业和刀具爱好者 的伤害要远比对你们的要大很多，因为他们使中国的刀具市场充满了各种的劣质的仿制品，使三刃木等刀厂受到很 大的冲击，其次，他们使中国的刀具设计缺少自己的特色，只是一味的仿制别人的作品。
现在在中国，随着跟多的人成为刀具爱好者，刀具市场也在慢慢的正规起来，很多刀友已经不再购买仿制品，而且 开始抵制仿制品。
我没法不让那些小作坊生产那些低劣的仿制品，我只能从自己做起，抵制仿制品，购买和使用正品。我相信如果大 家都不购买，或者抵制那些低劣的仿制品，也就不会有人再去生产他们。
另外，我是蜘蛛的粉丝。

ya thats close. Some odd points but pretty much the jist of it

 

[Jaytaylor]

我的鉛筆是大和黃色

 

[Chipped Karambit]

.......... If this keeps up I am going to start talking in spanish or japanese.......

 

[djjonny]

Japanese is easier imo

@chaungchee
我能理解與航運成本和高價格。這是非常相同的，被我留
但事實是海盜副本仍然是一個海盜副本，和偷竊是仍然竊取

即使我付我付+/ - 60比它在美國的成本（例如：我支付最高為我的Benchmade衝鋒R1900，230美元），我還是選擇做正確的事和支持最初的開發者們的辛勤工作

我也是中國人

你知道，可怕的聲譽，我們的人民，有盜版。我選擇不辜負它。
我同意，如果人們從來沒有買過他們不會作出任何更多。但要實事求是，這是絕不會發生
這是你決定這樣做，這是很重要

(in English)

I can understand prices being higher with shipping costs and such. It's much the same were I stay
But the fact is a pirate copy is still a pirate copy, and stealing is still stealing

Even though I pay I pay +/- $60 more than what it costs in the USA (eg: I payed R1900 for my Benchmade Onslaught, about $230) I still choose to do the right thing and support the original makers hard work

I am also Chinese

You know well, the horrible reputation our people have with piracy. I choose not to live up to it.
I agree if people never bought them they would not be made any more. However to be realistic, that's never gonna happen
It's what you decide to do that's important

 

[cziv]

I didn't get the impression that chaungchee was defending or condoning the current practices but rather explaining. I also think he meant that he likes Spydercos not knock off Spydercos.

I just woke up so maybe I'm not reading this jumbled up post correctly.

 

[djjonny]

Same, I wasn't accusing him of anything. I was just saying how it is generally and what I feel is right

Also battled to read chaungchee's post in chinese translated. Prob is google translate, translates directly so sentences from chinese to english often jumble up

 

[archieblue]

I won't buy ANY knife made in China. With an abundance of quality USA made knives there is no great reason except for getting a bargain. I'm not interested in a bargain. Maybe I just don't have quite an addiction to shiny things as much as passion & drive for design and quality.

 

[chuangchee]

sorry,guies,my english is not good enough to chat with you，if you don`t mind,that i can get a friend to translae my words.

 

[Samael]

We don't mind.

Your English is better than my Mandarin. But then again, I'm not trying to carry on a conversation on a Chinese website, either.

 

[unit]

We don't mind.

Your English is better than my Mandarin. But then again, I'm not trying to carry on a conversation on a Chinese website, either.

+1

I appreciate your effort.

 

[kokkionglow]

The situation of copy knives is quite bad in China, not only for renowned American masters, but also for the Chinese knife masters. There are a couple of nice bladesmiths in China but their creations are also copied by Chinese factories, without permission, and using the names of the bladesmiths.

 

[chuangchee]

here are some my spyderco knives.

Flickr 上 chuangchee2001 的 P1040538

 

[Yo Mama]

^Dude, nice collection! Love the Manix line, it's my favorite, I keep wanting more, and you have 2 original ones!

You should check into the Spyderco Manix 2 XL, you'll love it

 

[djjonny]

here are some my spyderco knives.

Flickr 上 chuangchee2001 的 P1040538

好的收集！
說實話，我騙我的中國。我不說話或寫，這樣用谷歌翻譯

Nice collection!
To be honest I cheated with my chinese. I don't speak or write that well so used google translate

 

[pj551016]

Wow, that's a bloody lengthy discussion. Here's my $.02:

I'm from China and am a personal friend of chuangchee. I'm an active knife enthusiast and a moderator of a reputable online knife community in China ([]Link[/URL] in case you are interested). There we have practically zero tolerance for counterfeits. Anyone posting or trading counterfeits and knock-offs will be notified and warned (and in the worse case, banned). However, our intent is to protect IP of the authentic manufacturers as opposed to beating up people who share the same love of sharp edges as we do. Through battles with counterfeits, one thing that I realized is that the heart wants what the heart wants. It's easy for me to say buying counterfeits is wrong and I'll never buy one because buying genuine isn't financially challenging to me, but for people who love the famous designs but simply can't afford them, a counterfeit might be just what they need. That's how those counterfeiting businesses survive in the first place (people who buy counterfeits usually know they aren't genuine.). Is that something to be proud of? Probably not. Is that something we should all point our fingers at? I'm not sure.

Today I'm rather forgiving of people who choose counterfeits over the real deals because they are ultimately friends of ours who share the same hobby but are unable to afford the sometimes outrageous prices. It's surely touching to save up for a few months to get a genuine Strider, but if one has to save up for that long to get a knife, there are probably more important aspects of his life the money could be spent at, maybe something for the parents, the wife, the kids.

Again I'm not a fan of counterfeiting at all, and I totally agree that they are IP thieves and should be punished, but they exist for a reason. In the market of knives, demand drives supply. I think this sh$t is definitely more complicated than "buying counterfeits is shameless" and "buying counterfeits harms the authentic manufacturers".

As a side note, factories in China are pretty good at improving their quality. I've seen some of the more recent counterfeits and they scared me. I have extremely mixed feelings about this:

1. These counterfeits have nearly the same and sometimes better materials and f/f compared to the originals, how do people tell them apart (especially with Emersons and Striders)
2. The counterfeiters really know how to make knives, but if they can build knives so well, why can't they create their own designs?
3. If the counterfeiters can make similar or even better products at much lower costs, why can't the genuine manufacturers. I don't want to get into the argument of the differences in cost of running businesses in the U.S vs in China, but I'm just saying.

With all due respect

PJ

 

[Dorito Monk]

Wow, that's a bloody lengthy discussion. Here's my $.02:

I'm from China and am a personal friend of chuangchee. I'm an active knife enthusiast and a moderator of a reputable online knife community in China (Link in case you are interested). There we have practical zero tolerance for counterfeits. Anyone posting or trading counterfeits and knock-offs will be notified and warned (and in the worse case, banned). However, our intent is to protect IP of the authentic manufacturers as opposed to beating up people who share the same love of sharp edges as we do. Through battles with counterfeits, one thing that I realized is that the heart wants what the heart wants. It's easy for me to say buying counterfeits is wrong and I'll never buy one because buying genuine isn't financially challenging to me, but for people who love the famous designs but simply can't afford them, a counterfeit might be just what they need. That's how those counterfeiting businesses survive in the first place (people who buy counterfeits usually know they aren't genuine.). Is that something to be proud of? Probably not. Is that something we should all point our fingers at? I'm not sure.

Today I'm rather forgiving of people who choose counterfeits over the real deals because they are ultimately friends of ours who share the same hobby but are unable to afford the sometimes outrageous prices. It's surely touching to save up for a few months to get a genuine Strider, but if one has to save up for that long to get a knife, there are probably more important aspects of his life the money could be spent at, maybe something for the parents, the wife, the kids.

Again I'm not a fan of counterfeiting at all, and I totally agree that they are IP thieves and should be punished, but they exist for a reason. In the market of knives, demand drives supply. I think this sh$t is definitely more complicated than "buying counterfeits is shameless" and "buying counterfeits harms the authentic manufacturers".

As a side note, factories in China are pretty good at improving their quality. I'm seen some of the more recent counterfeits and they scared me. I have extremely mixed feelings about this:

1. These counterfeits have nearly the same and sometimes better materials and f/f compared to the originals, how do people tell them apart (especially with Emersons and Striders)
2. The counterfeiters really know how to make knives, but if they can build knives so well, why can't they create their own designs?
3. If the counterfeiters can make similar even better products at much lower costs, why can't the genuine manufacturers. I don't want to get into the argument of difference in costs of running businesses in the U.S vs in China, but I'm just saying.

With all due respect

PJ

That's a very interesting perspective, man. That gave me a fair bit to think about - thanks for sharing. :thumbup: