How do you guys feel about China copies?

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I used to buy those knockoffs as well, fact is, most chinese fans start their collection from buying those "made in china" knockoffs. reasons like social-security and economic bearing, cause those popular knives are rarely seen in china. Even you do find one, the price will be doubled or more``(spydrco enduora which casts 50$ in US, will be sold at 90$ in china) However, local workshops are now involving and starting their "business":COPY. Certainly the quality is low, but benefits??? Damned cheap!

Lacking of patents and eager to make profit, they don`t make money that easy as you guys expected. Fortunately, like sanrenmu, they now start to design original knives to make some reasonable money instead of mere copied benchmade,spyderco or sog. The chinese fans-forum also banned the copied products, due to the imbalanced competition has devastated the chinese local brands, like sanrenmu.

Believe or not, the current knives market in china is on the way of regularization. copying the international brands is no longer an easy way to make quick money, as most fans start to refuse to purchase them.

At last, I`m individually self-controlled to say NOOOO to knockoff, while the others have their own choice. But if we all do the same, knockoff will be eventually fucked off. :)

PS: i`m a fan of spiderco knives.
 
Good questions. Even Sanrenmu got their brand copied with knives they don't produce;).

If the counterfeiter can make such a good knife, why they don't sell their own design at US price?
Possible answer:
* No or very little demand from Chinese market (1billion people)
* No direct demand from US market, as they need to establish first the reputation. Making copies has more direct marketing impact.

It's interesting to see how the whole thing evolve.

Note: I have genuine Sanrenmu, Enlan and Navy. Among these, Navy tends to do copying more than the other two. Coming to appreciate Spyderco design, by handling Navy k631, I bought two Spyderco Resiience, which should be made by any of these companies.

The quality of the real Resilience blows others out of the water.

Is the SRM, Enlan, Navy good enough for EDC? Yes.
Is paying 60-65$ shipped justify the Resilience? Yes, as far as one can distinguish the subtlety of the differences in quality.
The knife, if made available locallly, will be priced at 100-120$, which is about 1.5 times minimum wage (monthly) down here. I've seen Coldsteel Hold Out II at 180$.
 
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A bit off topic but Spyderco's seem popular in China.
Remember Xiecheng?

chuangchee said:
I ask a friend to traslate my words,i don`t like goole or baidu traslate.
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It is better that way. Translators will never do it as good as a person.
I was just being honest on my part :) as I dont have some one to translate for me
 
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djjonny said:
A bit off topic but Spyderco's seem popular in China.
Remember Xiecheng?



It is better that way. Translators will never do it as good as a person.
I was just being honest on my part :) as I dont have some one to translate for me
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Off topic - but wtf is a Chinese guy doing in S. Africa? Job related I'm sure. What an unpleasant place to be compared to China IMHO.
 
cziv said:
Off topic - but wtf is a Chinese guy doing in S. Africa? Job related I'm sure. What an unpleasant place to be compared to China IMHO.
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Born here 3rd gen. I agree with what you say, but I've grown up in SA, so more use to it than China.
 
djjonny said:
Born here 3rd gen. I agree with what you say, but I've grown up in SA, so more use to it than China.
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I was referring to climatic differences etc. - not politics of either country as that's fodder for another forum. I'm glad you like it there. Have you ever seen So. African made Sebenzas? - if such a thing exists.
 
For OP:

I wanted a (name deleted) folder knife. It was around $300. Gee, there was a Red Chinese made knife for $16 that ripped off the design. I ordered two. They came in. I found two new, unused leather sheaths for the folders. I gave them as gifts to my 30 something year old sons of my girlfriend. I didn't want the knives.

The steel used was poop. Those kids will never know. They will be used some day, maybe.

The market is fairly straight forward. Your options are:

1. buy a custom made knife from a self proclaimed expert knife maker;
2. buy a custom made knife from an acknowledged expert knife maker;
3. buy a high end brand name on the basis of brand name so that you have bragging rights;
4. pick an application and a budget, do the research and buy the best product available within the budget (requires some diligent effort);
5. buy a name brand knife because it is cheap enough and people without experience extoll that the $25 blade is as good as a production $120 blade;
6. buy knives that you are willing to use up and discard (a lot of good buys out there, many of which are still made in the USA of good steel, just old designs).
7. buy Chinese made knockoffs with describable metals (with an attitude that it is time that you got ripped off again).
 
bdcochran said:
For OP:

I wanted a (name deleted) folder knife. It was around $300. Gee, there was a Red Chinese made knife for $16 that ripped off the design. I ordered two. They came in. I found two new, unused leather sheaths for the folders. I gave them as gifts to my 30 something year old sons of my girlfriend. I didn't want the knives.

The steel used was poop. Those kids will never know. They will be used some day, maybe.

The market is fairly straight forward. Your options are:

1. buy a custom made knife from a self proclaimed expert knife maker;
2. buy a custom made knife from an acknowledged expert knife maker;
3. buy a high end brand name on the basis of brand name so that you have bragging rights;
4. pick an application and a budget, do the research and buy the best product available within the budget (requires some diligent effort);
5. buy a name brand knife because it is cheap enough and people without experience extoll that the $25 blade is as good as a production $120 blade;
6. buy knives that you are willing to use up and discard (a lot of good buys out there, many of which are still made in the USA of good steel, just old designs).
7. buy Chinese made knockoffs with describable metals (with an attitude that it is time that you got ripped off again).
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There is one more option which is gaining popularity these past few years:

8. Buy whatever knife you want for no reason whatsoever and give zero EFFs.

:D :thumbup:
 
pj551016 said:
... ... ...

1. These counterfeits have nearly the same and sometimes better materials and f/f compared to the originals, how do people tell them apart (especially with Emersons and Striders)
2. The counterfeiters really know how to make knives, but if they can build knives so well, why can't they create their own designs?
3. If the counterfeiters can make similar or even better products at much lower costs, why can't the genuine manufacturers. I don't want to get into the argument of the differences in cost of running businesses in the U.S vs in China, but I'm just saying.


PJ
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I have personally come across some very good quality counterfeits...especially fixed blade, which supposedly are easier to fake, than folders. I have come across folders which has alot of play, and some which are very good with no play at all.
and yes, you can't tell if it is genuine, all the website that sells it will just say that the factory do sub-contracting work for the well known makers.

Copy Technology, machinery, workmanship etc has come to a stage that the genuine makers need to rethink their strategy on how to innovate in their knife design (be careful Americans manufacturers!!).. a good recent example is the Zero Tolerance 0777 which comes with a composite blade (3.75" Composite Blade - Devin Thomas "Herringbone" Damascus + Bohler N360) ...
Now i think this is not easy to fake.. until of cos, they figure it out in due course.! ;_)
so the cycle go round and round .. the only thing that prevent counterfeiting, is to INNOVATE!... and for fixed blade, it is not easy to innovate, because there are no moving mechanism.
 
Doug C said:
Fixed. :thumbup:

Doug
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I'm sure we can find a way to make our point without borderline insulting generalizations. It's amazing this thread has stayed on the rails this long and posts like this don't help. You know this. ;)
 
I'm sure this has all been covered already, but my $0.02:

It sounds like the OP wants a toy he can't yet afford, and is considering having one for pretend instead.
My advice: plan to buy a non-knockoff that you CAN afford, and save the sebenza (or whatever) for when you've got the cash.

I wanted a Toyota Tacoma BAD when it was time to get a truck, but... I couldn't afford it.
So instead I bought a Chevy Colorado. Would I have bought a Chinese-made/branded Toyota look-alike that tried to capitalize on the success of the genuine article? Nope. I wanted THE TOYOTA, not just the LOOK.

You will find you get MUCH better customer service from the originator than the pirate, generally. This can be a big deal and is a huge value proposition as well. Consider S&W's customer service vs. Taurus, for instance. Egad, night & day. I'll buy new or used S&W vs. new Taurus any day.

Choosing knockoffs when you CAN afford the original is simply selling jobs overseas (assuming a US-centric viewpoint at the moment), and paying a HUGE corporation to underpay legions of cheap labor to satisfy your vanity.
It is ethical and satisfying, to reward innovation - mechanical or design - by steering your hard-earned dollars their direction. It encourages more of the same GOOD work, rather than encouraging piracy.

-Daizee
 
I;ve got to keep pushing the inexpensive framelock, speedsafe, hinderer designed & XM looking - Kershaw Cryo 2. I have an XM-18 & 24 family but I'm buying this folder because they make USA workers wages, it'll satisfy my curiosity to see what size a 3" Hinderer might look like in my hand (way too small I expect).

Spyderco, Kershaw, Buck, Ontario, Cold Steel and more make sub-$50 folders that are good quality - when you pull it out you won't risk the jeers of someone in the room outing you for carrying a fake knife - not to mention all this other mumbo jumbo! Buy from someone that at least has a strong USA presence. :thumbup: ;)
 
I wouldn't buy any knife made in China myself, not even these name brand ones because I think that all these manufacturers that took their business to China, for the sake of larger profit aren't exactly blameless, for the proliferation of all these copycat goods, knives and all the rest. Of course that's not a popular subject, with many here even if it is true.
 
jill jackson said:
I wouldn't buy any knife made in China myself, not even these name brand ones because I think that all these manufacturers that took their business to China, for the sake of larger profit aren't exactly blameless, for the proliferation of all these copycat goods, knives and all the rest. Of course that's not a popular subject, with many here even if it is true.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I agree 100%
 
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