How many lemons does BRKT need to accept that something is wrong?

[Jmboz]

I think the main problem with Bark River knives is the over-hyped marketing and over-zealotry of its fanboys.

I own several BRKT knives and they are very decent, well made knives. I've also received a couple of lemons that were quickly sent back.

My thoughts on their busniess practices are as follows:

1. With internet sales, the quality of fit and finish isn't as essential as selling in the shop (or at a gun show table) where the item can be physcially examined.
2. Increased producton and wholesale costs compensates for the few returned flawed items, which means less emphasis on quality control.

After having negative experiences on the knife forum that cannot be named, I was disturbed by the level of arrogance shown by Mike Stewart in regarding his knives. It's as if his knives would never fail and there must be something wrong with the user. I also disagreed with the technique of "baiting and banning" shown by moderators like Reid Hyken (Sharpshooter) and the censorship of thoughts, ideas and opinions in a attempt to protect the Bark River brand.

I'll keep the BRKT knives I already own, but I've moved on from the Bark River over-hyped fanboy cult to focus on custom knife makers, like Koster and Gossman - just to name a few on here.

Bark River may make a decent knife, but because of their lack of quality control, a person's money is better spent getting a custom made knife at similar costs directly suited for their purposes - IMHO.

 

[facablade]

I think the main problem with Bark River knives is the over-hyped marketing and over-zealotry of its fanboys.

I own several BRKT knives and they are very decent, well made knives. I've also received a couple of lemons that were quickly sent back.

My thoughts on their busniess practices are as follows:

1. With internet sales, the quality of fit and finish isn't as essential as selling in the shop (or at a gun show table) where the item can be physcially examined.
2. Increased producton and wholesale costs compensates for the few returned flawed items, which means less emphasis on quality control.

After having negative experiences on the knife forum that cannot be named, I was disturbed by the level of arrogance shown by Mike Stewart in regarding his knives. It's as if his knives would never fail and there must be something wrong with the user. I also disagreed with the technique of "baiting and banning" shown by moderators like Reid Hyken (Sharpshooter) and the censorship of thoughts, ideas and opinions in a attempt to protect the Bark River brand.

I'll keep the BRKT knives I already own, but I've moved on from the Bark River over-hyped fanboy cult to focus on custom knife makers, like Koster and Gossman - just to name a few on here.

Bark River may make a decent knife, but because of their lack of quality control, a person's money is better spent getting a custom made knife at similar costs directly suited for their purposes - IMHO.

100% agree in all 100% said.

 

[blademaster01]

thats bad for a knife of even 20 dollars,no barkies for me notat those prices,iseen another vid where a bravo necker rolled or chipped

 

[kycolonel]

I think the main problem with Bark River knives is the over-hyped marketing and over-zealotry of its fanboys.

Please cite examples. As far as I am aware BRKT doesn't advertise, doesn't do blade shows, doesn't participate in "pay to play" blade magazine articles, doesn't have rope cutting contests, no claims of nuke proof zombie killer steels, etc - and doesn't jump on this forum everytime a one-sided hearsay account (Judge Judy with one witness) of what happened with the owner is posted. Frankly, I suspect that it is BRKT's success in spite of not "playing the game" the way some would like around here which is the source of some jealousy and resentment in the knife community.

As far as the "over-zealotry of their fan boys", I would say they are mild in comparison to the followers of other makers on this forum (again, cite some examples).

I own lots of Bark Rivers. Had to return a few but mostly am impressed with the design and performance of their knives. I also find it interesting that people gripe about edge rolling during hard use - isn't this a good thing? I have used more expensive knives that have chipped - and so what? If you look hard enough you will find posts on virtually every volume knifemaker where someone believes their knife did not perform for what they paid for.

 

[foxx]

I'm not defending any knife maker here, but why is it that one guy can be a jerk and another person feels like never buying their knives. All the while, we all will buy cars, jewelry, clothes, and everything else and not care who made it?
Who made your car, do you know? What about your jeans? Are they being paid enough? Maybe they are an a$$hole as well.

If you call the knifemaker out in a public forum, while being pissed, I could see a negative reaction coming. Why not just get the warranty service and sell the knife. Rack it up to too thin of an edge, bad HT or mistake. Blasting the knifemaker in public is not necessary.
I had a custom made, it had a wave in the blade. The guy made me a new blade, let me use the first one, and all is well. I never needed to bad mouth the guy, he fixed the problem.

 

[hardheart]

Please cite examples. As far as I am aware BRKT doesn't advertise, doesn't do blade shows, doesn't participate in "pay to play" blade magazine articles, doesn't have rope cutting contests, no claims of nuke proof zombie killer steels, etc - and doesn't jump on this forum everytime a one-sided hearsay account (Judge Judy with one witness) of what happened with the owner is posted. Frankly, I suspect that it is BRKT's success in spite of not "playing the game" the way some would like around here which is the source of some jealousy and resentment in the knife community.

As far as the "over-zealotry of their fan boys", I would say they are mild in comparison to the followers of other makers on this forum (again, cite some examples).

I own lots of Bark Rivers. Had to return a few but mostly am impressed with the design and performance of their knives. I also find it interesting that people gripe about edge rolling during hard use - isn't this a good thing? I have used more expensive knives that have chipped - and so what? If you look hard enough you will find posts on virtually every volume knifemaker where someone believes their knife did not perform for what they paid for.

use the search function, more than enough examples of violating federal law, not paying employees, not paying royalties to designers like Fisk, not delivering a wholesale order and refusing to refund the up-front payment, playing coy about the lack of genuine MARSOC involvement in the Gunny, deletion of threads, shouting down from the fanboys, shilling by his son, whatever. Maybe just ask Ethan Becker why he calls Stewart old smoothie.

The existence of some other company's vitriolic, mouth-breathing, limbic-brained mass of fanboys does not make it okay for everyone to turn into a London rioter online for whatever knife they like.

No, rolling edges is not a good thing, and it takes some leap of logic to think permanent deformation of the functional part of a knife is at any time a positive trait. Research into edge geometry, heat treat, and alloy choice is done to avoid it.

 

[kycolonel]

No, rolling edges is not a good thing, and it takes some leap of logic to think permanent deformation of the functional part of a knife is at any time a positive trait. Research into edge geometry, heat treat, and alloy choice is done to avoid it.

I do not view a rolled edge from hitting something such as tree knot as being either permanent or negative when the alternative (chips, cracks) are considered. However, I am happy for you if through research into edge geometry, heat treat and alloy choice you have identified a knife that is impervious to blade edge malformation. If you would be so kind to as to share the make/model I'm sure there would be many interested in it.

As for the list of grievances against the owner of BRKT, I have done your recommended searches and not found one instance of Mike Stewart deleting a thread on BF. If you are referring to things that have happened elsewhere and reported here (at least some through the filter of bias) - yes, I have found that. And no, I have no interest in soliciting further gossip from one knife maker about another.

 

[Noddy]

Eeesh! I'm not ordinarliy swayed by threads like this, but I think I am selling my Barkies.

 

[Shotgun]

I had a Mini northstar that had a large gap between the scale and the tang and the edge was ground so thin the edge was damaged splitting a thumb sized stick. Haven't bought a bark river since.

 

[blademaster01]

ha ha ha just read a thread in the buck forum kind of simliar talk about fan boys that the place

 

[AfterTFD]

I do not view a rolled edge from hitting something such as tree knot as being either permanent or negative when the alternative (chips, cracks) are considered.

Proper geometry and the use of a steel which possess excellent hardness and toughness with its heat treatment are the ingredients to resisting such damage. If a knife is supposed to have all of these qualities and it proves not to then a problem exists. I absolutely agree with you that rolling is preferable to chipping. A rolled edge is an easy fix. Chips and cracks are not. Out in the woods I would for many tasks rather use 1095 at a hardness of 50 than d2 at 60.

I not found one instance of Mike Stewart deleting a thread on BF

I don't think he has ever been a moderator here. As far as I know he has never been active on this forum at any level. I could be wrong but I would be surprised if that were the case.


@Noddy: Might as well keep your barkies if there is nothing wrong with them.

@Hardheart: Does Ethan really call Mike that? I find this interesting.

 

[hardheart]

I do not view a rolled edge from hitting something such as tree knot as being either permanent or negative when the alternative (chips, cracks) are considered.

perhaps, but when you consider the alternative of no gross plastic deformation, then a rolled edge seems like a pretty lousy end result. I have a $13 machete that I sharpened on a belt sander that manages not to turn into tinfoil, if that's an indicator of the extremes in material engineering it takes to keep an edge intact.

 

[Noddy]

@Noddy: Might as well keep your barkies if there is nothing wrong with them.

On reflection, perhaps so - got plenty of way better knives, but can't imagine getting much for the brkts. They are definitely on the naughty step for a while, though

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I have a $13 machete that I sharpened on a belt sander that manages not to turn into tinfoil, if that's an indicator of the extremes in material engineering it takes to keep an edge intact.

This. Seriously. It's definitely an artform to fully maximize the potential of a steel through heat treatment...but it's not too hard to make something that doesn't crumple up on itself the second it gets put to work. Something seriously wrong is going on there.

On reflection, perhaps so - got plenty of way better knives, but can't imagine getting much for the brkts. They are definitely on the naughty step for a while, though

We'll put it this way--he's already got your money...so you may as well keep his knife.

 

[Rprecision]

I'm not defending any knife maker here, but why is it that one guy can be a jerk and another person feels like never buying their knives. All the while, we all will buy cars, jewelry, clothes, and everything else and not care who made it?
Who made your car, do you know? What about your jeans? Are they being paid enough? Maybe they are an a$$hole as well.

If you call the knifemaker out in a public forum, while being pissed, I could see a negative reaction coming. Why not just get the warranty service and sell the knife. Rack it up to too thin of an edge, bad HT or mistake. Blasting the knifemaker in public is not necessary.
I had a custom made, it had a wave in the blade. The guy made me a new blade, let me use the first one, and all is well. I never needed to bad mouth the guy, he fixed the problem.

Becuse the new customer doesent also want to be treated like a jerk ?

If I have a problem with a product, my first step is contacting the owner/maker/dealer/Etc.. In my case that occured on his forum, the one Mike encourages his customers to use. I think in a public forum would be the place a good maker would NOT respond in a negitive way.

I think you logic here is flawed. If I have a bad expirence with a product + bad expirence with customer service = no return business. Why would I want to deal with someone who treats me like fecis for buying his product ? Oh.... I should be thankful he made me the knife and allowed me to buy it.....come on

Jeans, jewlery, cars, I dont care if the person who made them is a cornhole, as long as I recive a good product and service......life is good. How would you know anyways unless you had a problem which was my point to begin with

 

[Rprecision]

Eeesh! I'm not ordinarliy swayed by threads like this, but I think I am selling my Barkies.

I still have my Aurora and Liten Bror....even after a less then favorable expirence.

It doesent mean everything the man has ever sold is junk. He has some bad business practices which will keeping me from owning another, doesnt mean you run to the safe with a blowtorch

 

[Jmboz]

Unfortunately kycolonel in order to cite specifc examples, I would have to talk about their occurances on the knife forum that cannot be named. My intention is not to cause this thread to denegrate into a cross forum flame war. I very much suggest you hang out there for a bit to see for yourself and you'll know exactly what I mean when I use the words "over-hyped marketing and over-zealotry of its fanboys".

If you need other factors, look at how Bark River and Mike Stewart market their Bravo 1. Now, to set the record, the Bravo 1 is one of my favorite outdoor working knives. I love the style, the quality of its build and it exactly fits my need for a hard use knife. You asked for an exmple and I'll give you one. There's a myth associated with the with the Bravo 1 that some unit from the Marine's Force Recon tested bunch of knives out of their own pocket, and the Bark River Gameskeeper won hands down. This mystery unit then asked for specific changes to the knife which became the Bravo 1.

Bark River claims to be making the Bravo 1 especially for Marine Force Recon, when the reality is that individual soldiers form any branch of the US Armed Forces carry whatever knife they choose. As matter of fact, I challenge anyone to show us all on Bldeforums photos of Force Recon units carrying and using the Bark River Bravo 1. This to me is "over-hyped marketing" based on a myth, one that Mike Stewart claims he cannot talk about do to military secrecy. If it was such a secret, how did the story even get released in the first place, and once released, it would no longer be secret.

As to the over-zealotry of the Bark River fanboys, your quite right that other knife brand lovers can be equally as fanatical. Does it make it right? I don't think so.

 

[zignal_zero]

This sucks! A client sent me a Bravo 1 to make pants for. I showed it to my wife, who knew very little about knives back then, even she was like "oh my God, that's nice" I had my heart set on a smoke jumper, pictures of it on my desktop background (shut up, u know u do it too). Then, long before ever hearing any of this, a member here mentioned getting bad service from them. I pm'd him for details, he explained. I started getting leery. Now that I hear all this, I'm out. I can't honestly say I know anything about the company or the man, but when I hear this much from this many people, its enough to make me avoid the chance all together.

Its like when you've never seen a knife or dealt with the company, but everyone says how great the product and service are, you think - what the heck, I'll give it a whirl. Well, just the opposite has happened to me with bark river :-( tragic too cuz I might be missing out on the best knife I could ever own, but y'all have convinced me to put it on my "no way" list.

 

[kycolonel]

Sorry to hear that ZZ. You should know and by doing a search here that most people are very happy with the knives and the service they have received from BRKT. You will note that much of the above angst is from folks who went to "the other" forum and tried to approach a maker the way they would here, and found it is a totally different culture there (right or wrong). Some makers are more open to airing inevitable product problems on a public forum (versus contacting customer service) than others. For example, have a look at the posting in Kershaw forum from this week. All the same, I hope you are able to identify a new maker for your knives who has not had multiple complaints posted about either their knives, their service, or their owners business practices over time on this forum. Good luck finding one.

 

[blademaster01]

Unfortunately kycolonel in order to cite specifc examples, I would have to talk about their occurances on the knife forum that cannot be named. My intention is not to cause this thread to denegrate into a cross forum flame war. I very much suggest you hang out there for a bit to see for yourself and you'll know exactly what I mean when I use the words "over-hyped marketing and over-zealotry of its fanboys".

If you need other factors, look at how Bark River and Mike Stewart market their Bravo 1. Now, to set the record, the Bravo 1 is one of my favorite outdoor working knives. I love the style, the quality of its build and it exactly fits my need for a hard use knife. You asked for an exmple and I'll give you one. There's a myth associated with the with the Bravo 1 that some unit from the Marine's Force Recon tested bunch of knives out of their own pocket, and the Bark River Gameskeeper won hands down. This mystery unit then asked for specific changes to the knife which became the Bravo 1.

Bark River claims to be making the Bravo 1 especially for Marine Force Recon, when the reality is that individual soldiers form any branch of the US Armed Forces carry whatever knife they choose. As matter of fact, I challenge anyone to show us all on Bldeforums photos of Force Recon units carrying and using the Bark River Bravo 1. This to me is "over-hyped marketing" based on a myth, one that Mike Stewart claims he cannot talk about do to military secrecy. If it was such a secret, how did the story even get released in the first place, and once released, it would no longer be secret.

As to the over-zealotry of the Bark River fanboys, your quite right that other knife brand lovers can be equally as fanatical. Does it make it right? I don't think so.

exactly 100 percent correct,marketing is outside the box thinking. we tend to think inside the box. remember when the internet was almost free of any advertising, now look at it,