How many lemons does BRKT need to accept that something is wrong?

[db]

WOW my old pal Cliff posted on that video in the comments. As much as I know BRKT does not blank nor do they heat treat their knives themselves. Seems to me that it is a good guess that a blank or 3 could get mixed up and ground without being heat treated. Just a guess. From what I've come to understand you will get much better service from BRKT if you do not publicly voice the problem you have. Right or wrong that just seems to be the case. Personally I think BRKT is way too thin skinned, but when you've had as many problems in the knife biz as Mike S. has had that is probly the result.

 

[brownshoe]

One of the oldest tricks of a con man caught in a con is to strongly attack the integrity of the person who has unmasked the con artist. They manipulate the heat of the argument to kill reason and logic, and direct attention at the personality of the victim. The flip side of this trick, is to not argue, but pay off the person who caught you to assure silence (i.e. well I got what I needed, so I won't expose the man and suffer his temper).

Stewart is an old con man, smart enough to not have become a "con" i.e. convict.

 

[Jmboz]

Stewart is an old con man, smart enough to not have become a "con" i.e. convict.

From what I've read, Mike Stewart has been convicted of a crime. He pleaded guilty to some kind of bank fruad.

Although as far as I'm concerned, that's not important as he's paid his debt to society. Everyone makes mistakes and I'm not one to hold a man's criminal past against him.

I believe that most advertising are elaborate con/PR jobs (weight loss products, Ginsu knives, BP environmentally friendly come to mind). Bark River isn't doing anything different from what a lot of companies are doing to sell their products.

 

[Allcaps321]

From what I've read, Mike Stewart has been convicted of a crime. He pleaded guilty to some kind of bank fruad.

Although as far as I'm concerned, that's not important as he's paid his debt to society. Everyone makes mistakes and I'm not one to hold a man's criminal past against him.

I believe that most advertising are elaborate con/PR jobs (weight loss products, Ginsu knives, BHP environmentally friendly come to mind). Bark River isn't doing anything different from what a lot of companies are doing to sell their products.

I would expect better behavior from a truly reformed man. A crime is not a mistake or a misunderstanding, its something you have done intentionally. You know its wrong but you choose to do it anyway. Its not simply his pasts its his continued actions and statements that show he hasn't changed.

 

[lambertiana]

For those of you who are lamenting the fact that this thread is keeping you from buying what you consider to be a great knife, understand that there are a number of custom makers who offer superior products for the same price range. I live a couple miles from Ray Laconico, and his blades put all of my BRKT knives to shame. In fact, my son had a Bravo 1, which he really liked, but then he misplaced it. I then had Ray make one for my son, and he loves it. My son recently found his Bravo 1, and made a comment about how he used to love the Bravo 1, but now that he has gotten used to his Laconico, the Bravo 1 seems poorly made in comparison.

 

[jvan]

From what I've read, Mike Stewart has been convicted of a crime. He pleaded guilty to some kind of bank fruad.

Although as far as I'm concerned, that's not important as he's paid his debt to society. Everyone makes mistakes and I'm not one to hold a man's criminal past against him.

I believe that most advertising are elaborate con/PR jobs (weight loss products, Ginsu knives, BP environmentally friendly come to mind). Bark River isn't doing anything different from what a lot of companies are doing to sell their products.

Oh, really?

Then why make your post at all with the word has underlined?

There appears to be a few folks around here that actually were able to afford the glass houses in which they reside, you should all be very proud of yourselves.

 

[sinjans]

just got a sts-8 with no worries.

I was raised to beleive nothing that I hear and half of what I see. I'll learn on my own. thanks

 

[db]

I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm going too. If you don't cut out your own blanks and don't heat treat them yourself, or even in house is it really a custom? Is it a custome even if you farm this out but have them done to your specs? Personally I think it is kind of od to get a custom piece from a production company. Personally I hope MS pays up all his debts and becomes the best maker/factory he can be.

 

[Jmboz]

Oh, really?

Then why make your post at all with the word has underlined?

Well, if I need to explain it to you, the underlining was used to point to specfic word so as not to be misunderstood in correcting Brownshoe's comment that "Stewart is an old con man, smart enough to not have become a "con" i.e. convict.."

My implication was that in the case of some type of bank fraud, he was smart enough to accept a plea bargain when the legal deck was oviously stacked against him.

There's nothing negative in saying someone has been convicted of a crime in court if that statement reflects the truth. It's simply stating the facts.

 

[Stainz]

Over a year or so, I bought seven Bark River knives - all but one were made of the least expensive handle material - natural Micarta, for example. They were bought as 'users', some marked down due to being superceded or dropped. My Bocote Boone is almost too pretty to use. But - they were all bought as users. They have functioned fine. The only vestige of incomplete work were a few scratches on the bottom of my black Micarta Huntsman's handle/tang - easily removed with fine 1,000+ SiC W/D and Semichrome polish in minutes. Mike Stewart answered my questions re the 'fix' - suggested I return it for a gratis 'spa' treatment - but I had already fixed it. Oddly, it was my first Bark River knife. Six more followed... but, thus far, no number eight... why?

Interests changed - I went back to folders - Custom Buck 110's - Benchmades - even a pair of CRK's. There was more going on - I found the 'inner crowd' at another forum to be too ready to 'pile on' when a newbie asked a redundant question - even the troll label was implemented too easily. It seemed like not a very friendly place any more - not Mike Stewart, although he does seem a bit too self assured at times - probably deservedly so considering his considerable history in the knifemaking world. It was his sheath maker and a few others who convinced me that they - and, by extension, BRK & T - no longer needed my financial support. I still like the knives - and reserve the right to add another one or two, if I find one I want.

Now, as to Mr. Stewart's personal history, including his supposed 'record'. It is less my worry than his favorite color car. The recidivism rate is highest in the exact same illegal act, whatever that was. If he was a 'career criminal', he would have been making shiv knives from combs and toothbrushes by now, if in fact he was ever incarcerated - which is still someone else's conjecture - to me - at this point. If anything, that attack has nearly driven me to buy my eighth Bark River knife... maybe an expensive one, like a large Bowie in spalted wombeezywood - with a lanyard - and no sheath. Seriously - if you don't like the man - or his knives - vote with your wallet!

Stainz

PS I can see some poorly - or not even - heat treated blades making it through. That would explain some examples chipping and rolling. The thin blade profile of the custom spear point in the video should have been rejected by QC, however. For the long/thin/hollow ground Bucks - 110, 119, etc - in 420HC - that hasn't been a problem. Maybe mandatory annual eye tests for QC Inspectors?

 

[Jmboz]

Michael Stewart accused of bank fraud; former Effingham resident was founder of Black Jack Knives

Jan 7 2000 12:00AM By By DONNA RILEY-GORDON, Daily News

The founder of Black Jack Knives, which had facilities in Effingham and St. Elmo, appeared before a U.S. magistrate judge in federal court in East St. Louis Thursday on charges of bank fraud.

Michael Stewart, 51, of Gladstone, Mich., and a former resident of Effingham, was indicted by a federal grand jury for bank fraud on Dec. 15, according to a press release from W. Charles Grace, U.S. attorney for the southern district of Illinois.

The federal indictment charges Stewart with defrauding the Murphy Wall State Bank in Pinckneyville starting in May 1995. The indictment states that the bank lost $500,000 as a result of the alleged bank fraud scheme.

If convicted, Stewart faces up to 30 years imprisonment, a fine of not more than $1 million and a term of at least three years and not more than five years supervised release following incarceration.

An investigation, which resulted in Stewart’s indictment, was conducted by special agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation assigned to the Bureau’s Effingham field office. The case has been assigned to Assistant U.S. State’s Attorney Robert L. Garrison for trial.

Stewart moved his company, founded in 1987, from Los Angeles to Effingham in 1991. In early 1995, St. Elmo city officials began talking about foreclosing on Black Jack Knives, which had fallen four months behind on its Community Development Assistance Program loan. At that time, St. Elmo Mayor John Spitler said late payments were a common occurrence.

Although Black Jack paid the amount owed to St. Elmo in one lump sum, money problems continued to plague the company until it closed its doors a few years later. Before the company completely shut down, employees were working without getting regular paychecks or received paychecks that bounced. Before long, Black Jack Knives had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

Federal agents then raided the Effingham plant in the industrial park, but they would not confirm a raid had even taken place at the time or that an investigation was underway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is from a partial headline from The Southern Illinoisan Newspaper - Jun 12, 2002

"Michael Stewart 53 formerly of Pinckneyville and now of Michigan was president of Blackjack Knives He has pleaded guilty to one felony count of bank fraud ... "

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm too cheap to pay the $2.95 for the full article, but I'm more than satisfied I presented factual information.

I'll restate for the record that it is not my place to judge Mike Stwart based on his past.

However, I will assess Mike Stewart and Bark River knives as they are now - based on the quality of the knives being produced, their overall business practices and their policies as demonstrated in the knife forum that cannot be named.

 

[Tracker16]

A few cracks with the handle of a butter knife around the three eyes will open a coconut. A few taps with a hammer will do the same

 

[zatch]

I probably shouldn't ask, but I'm going too. If you don't cut out your own blanks and don't heat treat them yourself, or even in house is it really a custom? Is it a custome even if you farm this out but have them done to your specs? Personally I think it is kind of od to get a custom piece from a production company. Personally I hope MS pays up all his debts and becomes the best maker/factory he can be.

I believe they are classified as semi-custom.

I have owned several Barkies over the past two years or so, some new and some from other users. The only one I really had a problem (cosmetic flaw) was a purple heart bumblebee that had a small nick in the tang/handle. I would have sent it in, but I didn't want to go through the hassle (I should have used the spa treatment).

Every Bark River I have had has held up just fine. I wouldn't necessarily write off all their products either, but sometimes I wonder myself - A simple quick look could catch quite a few errors that I have seen come up (including the OP's and my experience).

I see the Spa service as more of a plus than a quality control crutch, though I could see how it could be used as one. Personally, I would think that it would be easier to improve quality control rather than just say "screw it, send the blade out, maybe the owner won't see the scratch". I'm not saying that's what they did or have done, just using the expression as an example.

On the other hand, I have never paid full price for a larger barkie (200 dollar range items), only bought on the secondary market. Plus, I am not too picky on cosmetic flaws, especially minor ones.

 

[hardheart]

The recidivism rate is highest in the exact same illegal act, whatever that was. If he was a 'career criminal', he would have been making shiv knives from combs and toothbrushes by now, if in fact he was ever incarcerated - which is still someone else's conjecture - to me - at this point. If anything, that attack has nearly driven me to buy my eighth Bark River knife... maybe an expensive one, like a large Bowie in spalted wombeezywood - with a lanyard - and no sheath. Seriously - if you don't like the man - or his knives - vote with your wallet!

Well, we have bank fraud, failure to pay knife designers their royalties, failure to pay employees for work performed, failure to immediately refund payments for canceled wholesale orders. His indiscretions, if we are not to call them outright criminal acts, all seem to follow a similar theme. More than that, they are directly related to the manufacture, marketing, and sales of knives, so these are not personal idiosyncrasies unrelated to the business. Vote with your wallet and buy whatever you want, just don't expect the men and women who actually did the work to produce and deliver the knife to receive anything to their wallets.

 

[Joshua J.]

As much as the personal behavior of Mike is dismaying, Bark River still fills a spot in the industry that no one else is taking (producing knives with thin edges), and I have a lot of respect for Mike in sticking with it even though you have all these clueless people claiming his knives are defective.

 

[lambertiana]

Joshua, just because you have had nothing but positive experiences with BR products does not mean that others can't have bad experiences. Please don't presume to know the experience level of the knife users who have posted here. I have many many knives from many different makers, and I have only had a serious edge failure on one knife, and it was a Bark River. It suffered very significant edge rolling - it looked like a Spyderedge when I was done - from nothing more than whittling a stick. And for those who say it was because of the thin edge on BR knives, know that I have others with very thin edges that do not roll like this.

 

[Mark Schmitt]

Coconuts are hard, but I have opened them with machetes, dive knives, Cold Steel SRK (original model) and a BRKT Bravo I - all with no edge damage. Edge geometry and/or heat treat was not your friend in this case it seems. I use the blade to get through the husk, but the blade spine to crack the nut. Pretty easy once you get the knack.

A pick or maul with one side stuck in the ground makes opening a coconut in the husk trivial. A few seconds work...

Sorry to hear about your Barkie. Mine all seem to be spot on with the heat treat.

Mark

 

[Joshua J.]

Joshua, just because you have had nothing but positive experiences with BR products does not mean that others can't have bad experiences. Please don't presume to know the experience level of the knife users who have posted here. I have many many knives from many different makers, and I have only had a serious edge failure on one knife, and it was a Bark River. It suffered very significant edge rolling - it looked like a Spyderedge when I was done - from nothing more than whittling a stick. And for those who say it was because of the thin edge on BR knives, know that I have others with very thin edges that do not roll like this.

My experience with steel is that anything sharpened around 15 degrees inclusive (Edit: More like six degrees. See post #101) (flat, or almost flat with the main bevel on most knives) will roll on your fingernails, and ZDP-189 at Rc 64 doesn't do much better than S60V at Rc 56. Once you put a micro bevel on that you can treat it like a normal knife for the most part. If your edge is rolling it needs to be set a little thicker, that's all.

I just wish people would quit saying "defective" because it scares off any other manufacturers from trying to make sharp knives too.

 

[db]

My experience with steel is that anything sharpened around 15 degrees inclusive (flat, or almost flat with the main bevel on most knives) will roll on your fingernails, and ZDP-189 at Rc 64 doesn't do much better than S60V at Rc 56. Once you put a micro bevel on that you can treat it like a normal knife for the most part. If your edge is rolling it needs to be set a little thicker, that's all.

I just wish people would quit saying "defective" because it scares off any other manufacturers from trying to make sharp knives too.

7 degrees per side is pretty darn thin. I'd say any edge that rolls on a fingernail is pretty much useless. I don't go down to 7 per side but I do sharpen around 10 degrees give or take as I hand sharpen but for sure not over 15 per side. At these angles even a little cheap SAK can, with some care, cut thin wire, like those ties on most any kids toys. Any knife like shown in the video that can't cut a soft chopstick without damage like he did is defective I don't care how thin that edge was.

 

[hardheart]

My experience with steel is that anything sharpened around 15 degrees inclusive (flat, or almost flat with the main bevel on most knives)

I haven't seen any with primary bevels greater than 3 to 4 degrees per side, double what you have seen, on dozens of knives. This is measured by a CATRA laser goniometer advertised accurate to within 2 degrees.