How public are you with your knives?

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k_ozdragon said:
That the "item was substantially concealed" doesn't mean that the weapon must be completely concealed for it to be a crime. *"A defendant need not be totally successful in concealing a dirk to be guilty..."19

As long as the weapon is at least partially concealed, you could be held liable for this offense. *Along these same lines, as long as the weapon itself is at least partially concealed in a case or by some other means, it is irrelevant if the weapon is still identifiable.20

http://www.shouselaw.com/dirk-dagger.html#3


Again, posting for clarity on a confusing issue to aid others in not getting in trouble by publicly carrying a knife as it pertains to Southern California law.
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Cited in the link you posted on the point of concealed "dirks and daggers" is People v. Fuentes. Fuentes was caught in the act of committing a robbery, and the arresting police officer who had witnessed the crime found an item in his waistband described as a "dagger" with only the handle being visible.

In People v Alfredo that I cited earlier, Alfredo was not engaged in any criminal activity, a police officer merely noticed the tip of a knife sheath sticking out from under his shirt. The Appeals court specifically took into account the fact that the knife Alfredo was carrying was "carried in a sheath suspended from the waist of the wearer" which is the specific language in the law that allows for the legal carrying of fixed-blades in California.

There are a few very significant differences between the cases of Fuentes and Alfredo- Fuentes was actively engaged in a crime when he was carrying his dagger, Alfredo was not. Fuentes was carrying his dagger tucked in his waistband, Alfredo was carrying his knife in a sheath suspended from his waist, which is the manner of carry that is specifically mentioned as legal in the penal code. Fuentes conviction was upheld by the Appeals Court, Alfredo's conviction was overturned.

In any event, this only goes to show that the laws regarding the concealed-carry of fixed-blades on ones person in California are vague, and that case law can be somewhat contradictory. As a result, it cannot be accurately predicted if a person would be arrested based on just the handle of their knife showing, if they would be prosecuted, if they would be convicted at trial, or what the Appeals Court might rule if a person were convicted.

I think we are both in agreement that on this matter it's better to be safe than sorry and wear ones fixed-blade completely out in the open here in California, with both the entire handle, and the entire length of the sheath completely visible. That's my opinion anyways. :)
 
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deltaboy said:
I pull out my pocket knife when ever I need it.
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I do too. I honestly can't think of a time when I have not pulled out my pocket knife (folder) when I needed it. But I don't carry what I believe is a knife perceived as very threatening to most. That includes in court houses where I might be doing some work. I have to get escorted past security to allow my "tools" to be with me in that environment. I have since really thought about this "need" and have decided that I honestly seldom need a blade inside a court house, but it is a convenience to me. So, I picked up a Leatherman Style PS5 ('5 I believe) which does not have a knife blade because my most frequent use is using the knife blade to pinch something between the blade and my finger and the small needle nose pliers works for that. I leave my sak or other knife in the truck. If I need a blade of some sort, I will take the Leatherman Squirt PS4. I would still have to be escorted past security for the other tools/instruments I carry, but at least my knife would not be as "knife-like" as before. I am not a very threatening type of person, but I am still watched when I have these tools with me and escorted back out versus just wandering out like normal people do.
 
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Today at Trader Joes in NorCal I noticed all employees having a knife in a holster attached to their pants.
Cool.
Lots of ladies and young folks there. None of them seemed scared .

Now if a customer would legally have open carried his long sword I guess it would have been a bit different.
 
It never even crosses my mind until someone brings it up on a forum
I pull out my pocket knife and use it, then put it away just like I have for the past 58 years

I don't seek the approval of anyone
 
22-rimfire said:
It goes beyond "Trade" in Tennessee. All knives are legal including evil switch blades that were banned to carry most places during the James Dean era and biker gang use or suspected use. Pinnah mentioned the Buck 110. I believe in Texas, the 110 was actually listed as forbidden to carry. The funny thing there is back in the 70's when I lived there, I carried a Schrade 250T (essentially the same knife, just not a lock back) all the time in rural areas or as you referred to "my trade". ...... edit out......
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The Buck 110 was NEVER listed as forbidden to be carried in Texas. What you are vaguely referring to are 2 specific city ordinances, 1 for San Antonio and 1 for Corpus Christi, both of which ordinances are now dead as door nails with the passing of pre-emption (thank you Knife Rights) last legislative session.

The San Antonio ordinance made it illegal to carry ANY LOCKING FOLDING KNIFE REGARDLESS OF BRAND, SIZE OR LOCKING MECHANISM. All in the name of getting tough on gang-related crime. It had ZERO effect on crime. The gang-bangers still did what gang-bangers do. All it did was give LEOs something to hang an additional charge on gang members, which had ZERO effect on how long the little asses stayed in juvie. Under the ordinance, I could walk down the street with as many legal fixed blades, all day, every day, concealed or open carry all day. In fact, I did. I open carried a pair of fixed blades, a concealed fixed blade and a "mostly concealed" fixed blade (am inch was sticking out of my hip pocket. Taking advantage of the "traveling" exemption, I also carried a pair of locking folders, including a Buck 110.

The BUCK 110 was illegal in Corpus Christi because its blade exceeds the maximum blade length that CC had in their ordinance - 3 inches. Again, all in the name of being "tough on gang-related crime". Not because it was a weapon. Not because it was used by bikers. Just because it had a blade length longer than 3 inches. Period. The same ordinance also made illegal ALL FIXED BLADE KNIVES REGARDLESS OF LENGTH. Including that nefarious, metal-detection evading weapon, the plastic serrated picnic knife. since it was capable or stabbing OR cutting. The poor way the ordinance was written any fixed blade kitchen knife, including a butter knife, was illegal to be carried and used in public, including use for spreading mustard, mayonnaise, ketchup or cutting a hot dog into bite-sized pieces for a toddler.

Pre-emption killed EVERY local ordinance dealing with general public use of knives. A city or county can place limits on specific buildings or venues, but not on any city wide or county wide basis.

One State - One Law. :D

As far as the OP's original thread Q, I carry what I want, use them how I need to use them and don't really give a damn what anyone else thinks. The only Qs I usually get from LEOs are "What are they?" I was standing in line at a BBQ joint in north Austin with 4 San Antonio PD officers in front of me and 3 DPS officers, and 4 Austin SWAT officers behind me. (There been a LEO funeral in the cemetery across the highway). One asked me "What are they?" and another asked "Why 2?"

"Kabars. And I'm too fat and my left arm is too short to reach a knife on my right side with my left hand." :D
 
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pinnah said:
....Knives are weapons and everybody knows this. Even knife nuts know this. Especially knife nuts should understand this.
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A knife is only a weapon when it is used in an offensive or defensive manner. Period.

The problem starts when people forget that little fact.
 
I think this question a kind of a loaded question, because really "what do you carry and how public are you with your knife" really boils down to "what is the legality of your knife in your area, and how do you interact with those laws?" Living in California, there are many misinterpretations of the law, which leads to many people buying/carrying knives based off bad interpretation of the law. I can't tell you how many people walk into my shop and ask "Which of these knives are legal to carry" which honestly should be rhetorical, since we wouldn't carry illegal knives, and also (my favorite) " Isn't a knife bigger then your palm illegal?" to which I answer "So Shaq (Shaquile O'Neill) can carry a machete?
Anyways, point being, so much of what we carry and how we use them is dependant on the laws in our area and how we interpret them, coupled with our own consideration of those around us as well as how they may also consider the laws. It's a complicated scenario, thus I think laws in every area are a factor as to how many carry. This is why this thread has veered into law vs effect, because the two are intrinsically linked. The simple answer would be how one carries, however many are compelled to list the hidden variables as to *why* they carry in such a manner.
Just my 2 cents as to why so much "politics" have been brought into this thread. It's almost like asking "who are you going to vote for?" without allowing to explain why.

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Basically when I need it. Occasionally I will pull it out to let a friend check it out during conversation about knives, but that's not very often.
 
zzyzzogeton said:
The Buck 110 was NEVER listed as forbidden to be carried in Texas. What you are vaguely referring to are 2 specific city ordinances, 1 for San Antonio and 1 for Corpus Christi, both of which ordinances are now dead as door nails with the passing of pre-emption (thank you Knife Rights) last legislative session.

The San Antonio ordinance made it illegal to carry ANY LOCKING FOLDING KNIFE REGARDLESS OF BRAND, SIZE OR LOCKING MECHANISM. All in the name of getting tough on gang-related crime. It had ZERO effect on crime. The gang-bangers still did what gang-bangers do. All it did was give LEOs something to hang an additional charge on gang members, which had ZERO effect on how long the little asses stayed in juvie. Under the ordinance, I could walk down the street with as many legal fixed blades, all day, every day, concealed or open carry all day. In fact, I did. I open carried a pair of fixed blades, a concealed fixed blade and a "mostly concealed" fixed blade (am inch was sticking out of my hip pocket. Taking advantage of the "traveling" exemption, I also carried a pair of locking folders, including a Buck 110.

The BUCK 110 was illegal in Corpus Christi because its blade exceeds the maximum blade length that CC had in their ordinance - 3 inches. Again, all in the name of being "tough on gang-related crime". Not because it was a weapon. Not because it was used by bikers. Just because it had a blade length longer than 3 inches. Period. The same ordinance also made illegal ALL FIXED BLADE KNIVES REGARDLESS OF LENGTH. Including that nefarious, metal-detection evading weapon, the plastic serrated picnic knife. since it was capable or stabbing OR cutting. The poor way the ordinance was written any fixed blade kitchen knife, including a butter knife, was illegal to be carried and used in public, including use for spreading mustard, mayonnaise, ketchup or cutting a hot dog into bite-sized pieces for a toddler.

Pre-emption killed EVERY local ordinance dealing with general public use of knives. A city or county can place limits on specific buildings or venues, but not on any city wide or county wide basis.

One State - One Law. :D

As far as the OP's original thread Q, I carry what I want, use them how I need to use them and don't really give a damn what anyone else thinks. The only Qs I usually get from LEOs are "What are they?" I was standing in line at a BBQ joint in north Austin with 4 San Antonio PD officers in front of me and 3 DPS officers, and 4 Austin SWAT officers behind me. (There been a LEO funeral in the cemetery across the highway). One asked me "What are they?" and another asked "Why 2?"

"Kabars. And I'm too fat and my left arm is too short to reach a knife on my right side with my left hand." :D
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Thank you for the clarification. Yes, to the one law and the 3" blade length. The 3" blade length in terms of legality has always been a general rule of thumb where a max legal blade length was defined in weapons laws. I tend to simply use that length as my guide for general folder carry. I thought that was the defined length in TN, but later discovered it was 3.5". It didn't really impact at that time what knife I chose to carry. Now there is no defined blade length in TN.
 
joe D said:
Sir, you are so right! It's NOT the wild west anymore, ( I hear a lot of cops / people say that when i open carry in an open carry state) it's a Murica with FAR more violence, murder, rape, shootings, high crime and corruption, with waaaay more brutal killings, terrorism, looting, human trafficking, riots etc than the tame wild west ever thought about being, not counting the total disrespect for everything and family core break down. Wild west was a joke compared to today. We have corruption at the highest levels and 10 year old girls on their 2nd child by the stepdad. We are far worse off now. Id welcome the wild west back. At least then they didnt have Justin Beiber! I cannot bring a knife to work or anything that someone might think is a weapon. I keep any weapons out of the public eye best I can.
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Lol? You lived in the "Wild West" at some point?

Knife is a tool...only becomes a weapon when you use it like one.
 
joe D said:
Sir, you are so right! It's NOT the wild west anymore, ( I hear a lot of cops / people say that when i open carry in an open carry state) it's a Murica with FAR more violence, murder, rape, shootings, high crime and corruption, with waaaay more brutal killings, terrorism, looting, human trafficking, riots etc than the tame wild west ever thought about being, not counting the total disrespect for everything and family core break down. Wild west was a joke compared to today. We have corruption at the highest levels and 10 year old girls on their 2nd child by the stepdad. We are far worse off now. <snip> I cannot bring a knife to work or anything that someone might think is a weapon. I keep any weapons out of the public eye best I can.
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There are a lot more people in the "wild west" now as compared to the 1800's "wild west" days (mostly 1840-1900). More people, especially more people living close together = more crime regardless of the weapon of choice. The bolded part is unfortunate in the work place because there is always somebody who will think of any knife as a weapon.
 
AusLoX said:
Lol? You lived in the "Wild West" at some point?

Knife is a tool...only becomes a weapon when you use it like one.
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And for many years, FBI crime statistics regularly show that knives gets used as weapons in violent crimes more often than any other object with the exception of a handgun.

Regulations on knives make rational sense.

People getting afraid when they see a knife being used out of a normal context is also rational.
 
pinnah said:
And for many years, FBI crime statistics regularly show that knives gets used as weapons in violent crimes more often than any other object with the exception of a handgun.

Regulations on knives make rational sense.

People getting afraid when they see a knife being used out of a normal context is also rational.
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Do the statistics say what kind of knife? I don't think I am going out on a limb when I say the most used type of knife in violent crime is a common no name kitchen knife. I suppose we should regulate those. :rolleyes:
 
pinnah said:
And for many years, FBI crime statistics regularly show that knives gets used as weapons in violent crimes more often than any other object with the exception of a handgun.

Regulations on knives make rational sense.

People getting afraid when they see a knife being used out of a normal context is also rational.
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Out of normal context? So you're saying when someone pulls out a knife and starts waving it around in public? Sure.

In order for someone to want to use a knife against another human there is usually some sort of confrontation leading up to that point. Yes, there are random attacks but the percentage of knife attacks verse the number of people carrying knives has to be less than 0.1% I'd imagine; if not less. You have a much greater chance of being killed in a car accident, yet everyone gets in their car and heads to work.
 
pinnah said:
And for many years, FBI crime statistics regularly show that knives gets used as weapons in violent crimes more often than any other object with the exception of a handgun.

Regulations on knives make rational sense.

People getting afraid when they see a knife being used out of a normal context is also rational.
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Oh really? How many deaths by cars striking people? Do people scream in fear when cars drive by them regularly?

Odd. Your assertion has zero merit. Not the first time actually you make silly irrationally statements though.
 
pinnah said:
And for many years, FBI crime statistics regularly show that knives gets used as weapons in violent crimes more often than any other object with the exception of a handgun.

Regulations on knives make rational sense.

People getting afraid when they see a knife being used out of a normal context is also rational.
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No, sorry.
 
GatorMedic said:
I use my knife when needed and have zero qualms when doing so. I'll show my knife or talk knives to other people I know that are into knives. Otherwise I don't swing it around like a crazy person or use it at a restaurant. Knives are pretty common in the area I live and obviously in my profession.
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So you treat alligators?
 
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