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Kya............... An review

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You still don't understand. There is one set of rules here. There is only one way to handle things here. The BF way. I agree with RevDevil at this point.

David
 
oromoto said:
Jeepdud's way of handling this situation is not how I would handle it. As most people I'd probably take my refund and never do business again with the seller.
What I am trying to say is Jeepdud did what he thinks is right, and handled the matter his way. We can't say he did wrong nor right because people handle things differently.
I am kind of defending him because I think in a transaction buyer is the weaker side, they send in the money expecting to receive something described by the seller.
If we let this kind of behavior go on (lying in the description of something you sell here) , there will be no more trust and I am sure it will greatly hurt this forum.
I am saying this because I got confirmation that the knife is definitely used, scratched and has knick.
Both parties are probably sorting the things out that's why there are no posts from them, and I don't think Rick will post here unless he is asked by the affected to help clear his name.
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Your post will only hold water if it is proven that KYA lied about the knife, and not even that much water since Jeepdud sent the knife to someone else. You are assuming KYA lied in his description of the knife, but after seeing the pics I believe the knife was unused. However Jeepdud has admittedly resharpened the knife once he recieved it. If you are not happy with something you should not use it in anyway, and the only place it should be sent is back to the seller it was purchased from. Jeepdud IS wrong in this situation and knows it, that's why he has not returned back to this thread.

If Jeepdud had any integrity he would release the funds as it is owed to KYA.
 
There are many reasons for a buyer being unhappy with a deal. They range from buyer's remorse at one end to an out-and-out lie about condition of the item at the other. Other reasons fall in gray areas where neither side is wrong but the deal can be amicably reversed.

The way to make all these situations work is simple. If the buyer is unhappy, he needs to contact the seller as soon as he receives the item. Both need to agree to reverse the deal immediately. No one else has to know there was a problem.

Too many people come here to FEEDBACK without even contacting the other party. I end up emailing them to let them know there's a FEEDBACK complaint on them -- first time they heard. That's not right.

I do not know who is right and who is wrng in his situation. But a little courtesy would have saved us all a lot of wondering.
 
oromoto said:
Jeepdud's way of handling this situation is not how I would handle it. As most people I'd probably take my refund and never do business again with the seller.
What I am trying to say is Jeepdud did what he thinks is right, and handled the matter his way. We can't say he did wrong nor right because people handle things differently.
I am kind of defending him because I think in a transaction buyer is the weaker side, they send in the money expecting to receive something described by the seller.
If we let this kind of behavior go on (lying in the description of something you sell here) , there will be no more trust and I am sure it will greatly hurt this forum.
I am saying this because I got confirmation that the knife is definitely used, scratched and has knick.
Both parties are probably sorting the things out that's why there are no posts from them, and I don't think Rick will post here unless he is asked by the affected to help clear his name.
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I understand your position, I really do. However, rules are in place for a reason. The "law" should not be taken into anyone's hands independently of said rules, written or otherwise. Only the buyer and seller know the exact details of the transaction. The rest of us are simply looking at what was posted and making a determination on what went down (the limited details available to us). The way you postulate the solution is that if someone is deceptive the only logical answer is retribution to a worse level. I don't know what is so difficult to understand but two wrongs do not make a right. If we all did things your way, the community would destroy itself in no time. Those means are to a self defeating end.

Personally, I do not like to have such a pessimistic outlook on the people here. I know that the vast majority are good, hardworking, and honest people. How can I be so sure? Because I'm here everyday, and I see it when I talk with my friends here. This section ensures that to a large extent, as does the iTrader feedback system. It's important to leave feedback after any transaction here it separates the good people from the bad people. THe bad people end up hanging themselves and the community weeds them out.

This forum has been around over a decade and I'm sure it will last another decade if not longer, this is just another bump in the road. The only impact this will have on the forums is that these 2 guys will be working to regain the trust of the community or they will leave. I doubt the rules will be changing to govern the ignorant. It's much more effiicent to remove those individuals from circulation than make the community pay the price at large. What we can't have is people thinking theft is a viable solution to a problem that had an exceedingly simple solution available from the beginning. Making up rules as people see fit won't fly here.

Someone posted earlier something to the extent of "If you can't handle a transaction in a mature manner, you have no business transacting here". I agree with this 1000%, and I stand by my previous statements.
 
RevDevil said:
The comment you quoted is part of the unwritten rules on Bladeforums. It has been for a long, long time - that is how we do things here.
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That's fine, and the way you worded it above is exactly the way it should have explained to the seller right away... Instead the seller got pretty belligerent, which led to people rallying against him, and by the time the seller relented to the refund, the buyer instead used all those rallying posts as a justification for his "I got ripped off and now the seller's gonna burn" actions.

Oh well... what's done is done.
 
weinerd said:
That's fine, and the way you worded it above is exactly the way it should have explained to the seller right away... Instead the seller got pretty belligerent, which led to people rallying against him, and by the time the seller relented to the refund, the buyer instead used all those rallying posts as a justification for his "I got ripped off and now the seller's gonna burn" actions.

Oh well... what's done is done.
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No, the OP was already planning to keep the money and sent the knife to R. Hinderer. Why else would he have already posted this on the first page?

jeepdud3 said:
thank you guys for backing me up, this guy is hell bent on the money, even if it means his reputation, but!!!!!!!! pay pal is already on the matter, as is Mr Hinderer, and Plaza Cutlery
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oromoto said:
I think I am going to leave it be too...
My weird point is.
-A sells B a knife stating it is new.
-B finds it used and sent it to the maker to make sure.
-Meanwhile B holds A's money incase A doesn't want to pay the expense.
-Maker says it is used.
(So do you still think it is ok for me to sell you an used knife pretending it to be new, but when you find out all I say is I'll give you the refund but not the shipping (AFTER you make it public?)

So this comes back to what I posted on top. A lier should be punished, period (And that's a light punish by just holding his money for a while).

I am sorry guys, if I have wasted your time reading this. I am putting my point of view based on the knife is used.
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Where has this been stated by Rick?
 
I had a guy file a claim against me using PP on an eBay deal. I refunded the guy 5.00 to go away but PP charged me a percent to send the 5.00 refund, plus another fee for the claim process. I wonder what will happen here?
 
Under the circumstances, all Rick can say is what the condition of the knife was when jeepdud3 sent it to him. If there is any damage, we don't know who did it.
 
cosmophonic12 said:
I had a guy file a claim against me using PP on an eBay deal. I refunded the guy 5.00 to go away but PP charged me a percent to send the 5.00 refund, plus another fee for the claim process. I wonder what will happen here?
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If you do it as a refund (instead of sending him the money as a new transaction, which must be what you did) you not only don't get charged anything extra, PayPal even refunds your transaction fee. If it's a partial refund they refund the appropriate part of the fee.
 
oromoto said:
I am saying this because I got confirmation that the knife is definitely used, scratched and has knick.
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From who?
From Rick?
From one of the involved parties?
Seriously, if you have info on it, share.
 
Just spoke with Kya and Jeep still hasn't released funds. No decision has been made in case either. I so hope Kya gets his money back. :(
 
We should have information soon, but that's up to kya to release. When/if this is really sorted out. Meanwhile, as usual, thanks to everyone for a valuable discussion on how we expect people to do business around here. Bladeforums rules are not law, they are a system of ethics. Fortunately, most of our members enjoy living up to them, and the transactions they make possible.
 
CWL said:
I just hope that there is a satisfactory conclusion. It can't get "worked out" when one of the party is not cooperating.
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To be honest, that's exactly what I meant. Im not nearly naive enough to think they can work things out amicably at this point.
 
Im going by the pictures that were posted earlier in the thread. Jeepdude had a problem with the corrosion on the pivot, said the stonewash on the handle and blade was all
scratched up, the G10 showed heavy use. Well either the pictures wasn't able to show the use or it just isnt there. And its known the pivots come like that from the shop
sometimes.
I just think Jeepdudes expectations of the knife was unrealistic. He spent a crap load of money and anything he got that was short of perfect wasnt acceptable.
 
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