Kya............... An review

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ssblood

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I've been sold things that weren't as described. I didn't make a big fuss. I was offered a refund everytime. I never took one though.

Hinderer knives are ment to be used. They are not show case pieces like a Sebenza nor does Rick claim them to be. They are ment to be insanely tough and have character. If people can't understand that they probably shouldn't purchase one.
 
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You're not tracking what has actually happened thus far, and I don't get what weird point you're trying to make at this point, so I'm going to leave it with one last thing:
Refund offered.
Refund offer not taken---cash grabbed back from PayPal instead.
At that point the knife should have been sent back to the seller...it wasn't.

Bad buyer. I wouldn't deal with him. Ever. The end.

I think I am going to leave it be too...
My weird point is.
-A sells B a knife stating it is new.
-B finds it used and sent it to the maker to make sure.
-Meanwhile B holds A's money incase A doesn't want to pay the expense.
-Maker says it is used.
(So do you still think it is ok for me to sell you an used knife pretending it to be new, but when you find out all I say is I'll give you the refund but not the shipping (AFTER you make it public?)

So this comes back to what I posted on top. A lier should be punished, period (And that's a light punish by just holding his money for a while).

I am sorry guys, if I have wasted your time reading this. I am putting my point of view based on the knife is used.
 
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From how I've read it, it could have been handled better by both sides, but part of the blame lies on some of the people here...

Some people kept saying that "the sale's not over until both parties are happy" and sided with the buyer at the beginning which made things worse for the seller... but that's not really a rule as the seller looked up... The the buyer starting doing things that didn't jive, even though people were still pressuring the seller.

When seller finally offered refund if the buyer only asked, the buyer did something unbelievably dumb and sent the knife off to a 3rd party. From the sounds of it, the buyer wants the knife, and some (if not all) of the money back too... now that's not the deal that the seller went into, so ultimately the buyer is at fault here.
 

ssblood

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I think I am going to leave it be too...
My weird point is.
-A sells B a knife stating it is new.
-B finds it used and sent it to the maker to make sure.
-Meanwhile B holds A's money incase A doesn't want to pay the expense.
-Maker says it is used.
(So do you still think it is ok for me to sell you an used knife pretending it to be new, but when you find out all I say is I'll give you the refund but not the shipping (AFTER you make it public?)

So this comes back to what I posted on top. A lier should be punished, period (And that's a light punish by just holding his money for a while).

I am sorry guys, if I have wasted your time reading this. I am putting my point of view based on the knife is used.

It's not up to A to decide B has to allow him to ship the knife to Hinderer to be inspected. He had two options. Accept the knife as received or return for a refund. Someone else would have paid 650 and been happy.
 
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I will not be singing a different tune. I still would not buy or sell from jeepdud.

He should have take the refund if he was not happy with the knife. It was not his to send back to Rick.[/QUOT

Indeed, I'm not going to accuse anyone of anything but how could it be proven that a buyer hasn't used the knife to make it appear to be used to cover a case of buyers remorse or a scam. Regardless of whose at fault here, I think it's obvious who's handled the situation poorly.
 
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It's not up to A to decide B has to allow him to ship the knife to Hinderer to be inspected. He had two options. Accept the knife as received or return for a refund. Someone else would have paid 650 and been happy.

So I sell you an used knife lying to you that it is new. You find out, but I am still twisting the words New In Box. You made it public, then I offered the refund but not including the shipping charge. You will say yes to that?
XM-18 New straight from Rick is about $400, I paid $500 for mine NEW second hand. At $650 at least you should get what the seller said it is. NIB which means New In Box.
I really wish jeepdud3 can come in and say what Rick said.
 
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ssblood

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Not sure what you are trying to say at this point. The buyer screwed up, bad. Absolutely nothing can justify his actions. No ifs ands or buts. He did something he should not have done regardless the shape of the knife.
 

knarfeng

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So I sell you an used knife lying to you that it is new. You find out, but I am still twisting the words New In Box. You made it public, then I offered the refund but not including the shipping charge. You will say yes to that?
XM-18 New straight from Rick is about $400, I paid $500 for mine NEW second hand. At $650 at least you should get what the seller said it is. NIB which means New In Box.
I really wish jeepdud3 can come in and say what Rick said.

You forget that in the pictures posted by the OP of the supposed blemishes, those familiar with Hinderer knives could find on evidence of any unusual blemish or unusual grind mark. So we have only the OPs statement that the knife did not meet his expectations as a basis for withholding payment.
 

safetyman

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Let's not forget that jeepdud3 admitted to touching the edge up after receiving the knife...
 
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I think I am going to leave it be too...
My weird point is.
-A sells B a knife stating it is new.
-B finds it used and sent it to the maker to make sure.
-Meanwhile B holds A's money incase A doesn't want to pay the expense.
-Maker says it is used.
(So do you still think it is ok for me to sell you an used knife pretending it to be new, but when you find out all I say is I'll give you the refund but not the shipping (AFTER you make it public?)
So this comes back to what I posted on top. A lier should be punished, period (And that's a light punish by just holding his money for a while).

I am sorry guys, if I have wasted your time reading this. I am putting my point of view based on the knife is used.

Your knife forum vigilante mentality is about enough to make me pass on selling you anything too. This is not the way to handle these kinds of things. Aside from possibly committing wire transfer fraud, it's theft plain and simple and a mild kind of extortion.

From how I've read it, it could have been handled better by both sides, but part of the blame lies on some of the people here...

Some people kept saying that "the sale's not over until both parties are happy" and sided with the buyer at the beginning which made things worse for the seller... but that's not really a rule as the seller looked up... The the buyer starting doing things that didn't jive, even though people were still pressuring the seller.

When seller finally offered refund if the buyer only asked, the buyer did something unbelievably dumb and sent the knife off to a 3rd party. From the sounds of it, the buyer wants the knife, and some (if not all) of the money back too... now that's not the deal that the seller went into, so ultimately the buyer is at fault here.

The comment you quoted is part of the unwritten rules on Bladeforums. It has been for a long, long time - that is how we do things here. Things are based on the honor system, if you have no honor, then you have no business buying, selling, trading, posting or anything else here.
How can everyone be to blame? You really aren't making much sense here. The knife was misrepresented to begin with, that is ultimately the responsibility of the seller. This is what started the cascade of BS that leads us all the way over here 150 posts later. Had the knife been clearly represented, and clear photos posted with an explanation of blemishes, none of us would be here. The stickies at the top of almost every single subforum are there for a reason, the reason is not so new people can fly right past and ignore them, they are there to protect people from this kind of problem. At this point it's pretty safe to say there is irreparable harm done to both sides. The bitter taste of a bad experience lingers far longer than the initial sweetness of a a quick flip.

Early warning signs of knife purchasing trouble

*** Suggestions for having a good Buying / Selling / Trading experience

Rules for the Exchange forums - Updated 5/23/2011
 
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I'm not going back to read this entire thing again, but from what I gather the buyer really messed up and will be hard fetched to find someone on BF to sell him a knife. I wouldn't deal with him. Some people amaze me. 1/3 of the time, the OP has a legit beef and the other party gets defensive (and either makes right or doesn't make right). 1/3 of the time, the OP starts off with strong words and bashes, except as the thread takes shape, people realize the OP is an idiot and he was really at fault. The final 1/3 of the time, both the OP and the other party look like fools. Either way....these threads are fun to read.

As an aside....this is the language I put in my sales threads. It may not be perfect, but I think it outlines my expectations of the deal pretty well, and the buyers have agreed that it works for them to. Never had a problem. This sets forth my understanding of what will happen when I sell one of my knives. If the buyer/potential buyer doesn't like it, they don't have to buy the knife from me.

I will only accept payment with PayPal and will not accept payment through the gift or personal option. My asking price includes USPS Priority Shipping (paid by me), and I will require a signature upon receipt. I will not ship outside CONUS. I will ship the knife after I receive payment from Buyer.

If you have any questions or concerns about the knife (my description, pictures, etc.), CONTACT ME AND ASK ME. The knife is sold as-is and as described in this post. The Buyer has 3 days to examine the knife after receipt, and if the Buyer does not want the knife during that 3 day period for any reason, the Buyer agrees to send me an email or private message within this 3 day period and I will refund the payment in full after I have received the knife back from the Buyer. The knife must be returned to me in the exact same condition as when I shipped it to you (as determined in my discretion...meaning I am the final decision make although I will use my reasonable judgement). The Buyer will pay the postage cost if the knife is returned to me, and shall return the knife using USPS Priority Shipping, with signature upon receipt required.

First person to say "I'll take it" in this post, or send me a private message saying "I'll take it", gets the knife.

I reserve the right to refuse to sell the knife to any person for any reason.
 
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thank you seanifred, it is a shame but this joker get me for ............$650.................................. very sad, he wont get to keep it, rep lost... money too

In reading the thread over, I guess this post clearly demonstrates the intent. Looks pretty obvious to me.
 
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In reading the thread over, I guess this post clearly demonstrates the intent. Looks pretty obvious to me.

Yep....that's the second group of 1/3'rds I referred to up above: "1/3 of the time, the OP starts off with strong words and bashes, except as the thread takes shape, people realize the OP is an idiot and he was really at fault."
 

snowreaper1

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Take a look at the pictures that were posted of the knife earlier in this thread. There is no sign of use and even multiple people who have had Hinderers stated the
knives look exactly like that when they recieved their NIB Hinderer.
 

Rhesus Feces

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Take a look at the pictures that were posted of the knife earlier in this thread. There is no sign of use and even multiple people who have had Hinderers stated the knives look exactly like that when they recieved their NIB Hinderer.

Precisely. jeepdud3 feels that this knife was misrepresented. :jerkit:

To those eagerly awaiting Mr. Hinderer's opinion of the condition of the knife:

Hopefully Rick is aware of this thread and the facts involved, however, there's also the possibility that jeepdud3 never sent the knife in for evaluation and his intent was to run a clever little scam here.

I'm beginning to fear this may be the case. :thumbdn:
 
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Has this thread been brought to Ricks Attention?

I know hes a very busy man, but I think he would be very interested in the matter...especially if the knife was never sent to him.
 
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The buyers silence and lack of further input into this thread says a lot to me........

I would be worried if I was the seller.
 
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I hope this issue gets resolved soon. The seller should get his money ASAP, regardless of the outcome at the Hinderer shop. Jeep whatever is name is, should not have sent the knife anywhere after filing the paypal claim.
 
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I hope this issue gets resolved soon. The seller should get his money ASAP, regardless of the outcome at the Hinderer shop. Jeep whatever is name is, should not have sent the knife anywhere after filing the paypal claim.

The only place he should have sent the knife was back to Kya. It looks a lot like Kya has been bumped out of pure spite......the poorest of shows IMO. :thumbdn:
 
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Your knife forum vigilante mentality is about enough to make me pass on selling you anything too. This is not the way to handle these kinds of things. Aside from possibly committing wire transfer fraud, it's theft plain and simple and a mild kind of extortion.


Jeepdud's way of handling this situation is not how I would handle it. As most people I'd probably take my refund and never do business again with the seller.
What I am trying to say is Jeepdud did what he thinks is right, and handled the matter his way. We can't say he did wrong nor right because people handle things differently.
I am kind of defending him because I think in a transaction buyer is the weaker side, they send in the money expecting to receive something described by the seller.
If we let this kind of behavior go on (lying in the description of something you sell here) , there will be no more trust and I am sure it will greatly hurt this forum.
I am saying this because I got confirmation that the knife is definitely used, scratched and has knick.
Both parties are probably sorting the things out that's why there are no posts from them, and I don't think Rick will post here unless he is asked by the affected to help clear his name.
 
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