My Dispute with "The Bright Edge"

[anyone]

work harder when considering a deal NEXT time.

You're certainly entitled to disapprove of my position, but could you please share with me how I could go about "working harder" when considering a deal?

That was my whole point in calling ahead long distance on my own dime.. I really don't know what else I could have done to avoid this (outside of just not ever trusting someone else's description of merchandise).

Thanks.

 

[anyone]

There seems to be only one point the parties to this transaction disagree on and it's a matter of fact, not ethics.






Roger / Anyone believes he asked whether the knife locks up tightly both open and closed and was told it did. Based on that he believes he is entitled to a full refund.

Brightedge / Bob, if I understand you correctly, you believe your recollection of the conversation is substantially different from Roger / Anyone's recollection of it. I'm not sure I understand exactly what your position is, Bob. Are you saying Roger knew or should have known you did not say it locks up tight both open and closed?

What if I'm considering buying a balisong from you some time in the future? Is there any way I could find out whether it locks up tight both open and closed without risking a $100 restocking fee to find out?

It seems to me that you didn't understand the question. I don't believe you had the slightest intention to deceive; I think you were trying your best to answer as honestly and clearly as you could, but you don't know anything about balisongs....

Cougar, I think you have summed up this situation 100% correctly.. Sadly Robert and I didn't get along very well and believe that it has been a factor in clouding both of our judgements.

I asked the question of ethics earlier in the bali forum because I really do want to handle things fairly (in spite of my anger).

 

[Totenkopf]

Roger/anyone, I have four of Brad Duncan's TimeBombs, and most came with marks like that on the tang...from where Brad fitted the pins I think. I would have kept that knife if I were you, since it was a very sweet deal, and in my experience Brad would have fixed it for free if you sent it back to him.

 

[RGRAY]

...So Roger asked me a lot of questions like, how is the knife when latched closed, so I closed and latched it, very tight you have to squeeze the handles to unlatch it, ok, how tight is the knife when opened, I opened it and told him, the blade and handles are very tight no play, he asked will the latch hit the handles when flipped, I said It has never been flipped and I would not flip it but yes the latch would hit the handles when flipped.

I have read this post several times and I have talked to Robert.

This is a very fine point, but I think this is were the problem lies.

Roger asked, how is the knife when the latch is CLOSED?

Bob answers, very tight you have to squeeze the handles to unlatch it.

Roger asked, how tight is the KNIFE (not the latch) when opened?

Bob answered, the blade and handles are very tight no play (not the latch).

Bob never LATCHED the knife in the open position.

I don't think I would have either.

I just wouldn't have thought of it.

Roger did not SPECIFICALLY ask how did the knife LATCH in the OPEN position.

 

[RGRAY]

I think you should eat the $100.00 and move on.

His website states what the deal is, and you proceeded on anyway. He regrets selling to you, you regret buying it, and no one is happy, but business is business.

This was not a deal conducted over the Blade Forums, by a private party. This was something YOU made public, so take your medicine, take the hit on the credit card, learn from the experience, and hopefully, you will publicly STFU and work harder when considering a deal NEXT time.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

What Steve said. :grumpy:

 

[RGRAY]

...What if I'm considering buying a balisong from you some time in the future? Is there any way I could find out whether it locks up tight both open and closed without risking a $100 restocking fee to find out?

It seems to me that you didn't understand the question.... but you don't know anything about balisongs....

Cougar, I think all you would have to do is ask "does the knife locks up tight in the open and closed position."

I don't think Roger said those words or Bob would have told him.

I think you are out of line questioning Bob's knowledge of balisongs; they're not that hard to figure out.

Bob has been a knife dealer for 6 years.

Like Roger said; " ...I have chatted via email with Doug (the Knife’s new owner). He is happy with the knife as a “latchless” piece. He also staed that the latch didn't work but that he was aware of that before he bought it..."

Doug was aware that the latch did not work.

Bob told Doug the latch didn't work and I am sure he would have told Roger if he was asked and knew.

This was a $1500 knife for $750.

 

[HDCharlie]

Cougar, I think all you would have to do is ask "does the knife locks up tight in the open and closed position."

I don't think Roger said those words or Bob would have told him.

I think you are out of line questioning Bob's knowledge of balisongs; they're not that hard to figure out.

Bob has been a knife dealer for 6 years.

Like Roger said; " ...I have chatted via email with Doug (the Knife’s new owner). He is happy with the knife as a “latchless” piece. He also staed that the latch didn't work but that he was aware of that before he bought it..."

Doug was aware that the latch did not work.

Bob told Doug the latch didn't work and I am sure he would have told Roger if he was asked and knew.

This was a $1500 knife for $750.

Are you an elected "devil's advocate" or did you assume the position on your own? Why did Bob tell Doug and not tell Roger? Who said Doug asked about the latch? Seems to me that Bob was covering his arse, after finding out about the problem.

 

[RGRAY]

...Why did Bob tell Doug and not tell Roger? Who said Doug asked about the latch? Seems to me that Bob was covering his arse, after finding out about the problem.

What are you reading?

"Why did Bob tell Doug and not tell Roger?'

Bob didn't tell Roger because he didn't know.

Didn't you read were I said "Bob never LATCHED the knife in the open position."

"Who said Doug asked about the latch?"

Doug probably DIDN"T ask about the latch; Bob told him because he found out from Roger.

"Seems to me that Bob was covering his arse, after finding out about the problem.'

You are intitled to your openion.

 

[RGRAY]

...Why did Bob tell Doug and not tell Roger? ...Bob was covering his arse, after finding out about the problem.

It can't be both ways; Bob knew and didn't tell Roger and Bob was covering his a$$ AFTER finding out from Roger.

Maybe you should go back to sleep.

 

[HDCharlie]

What are you reading?

"Why did Bob tell Doug and not tell Roger?'

Bob didn't tell Roger because he didn't know.

Well, it seems to me that such a knowledgeable dealer, with "six" years experience, should have known. He had the knife in his hand.

 

[HDCharlie]

It can't be both ways; Bob knew and didn't tell Roger and Bob was covering his a$$ AFTER finding out from Roger.

Maybe you should go back to sleep.

Maybe you should pack it in. I was talking about covering his a$$ with Doug.

 

[RGRAY]

Maybe you should pack it in. I was talking about covering his a$$ with Doug.

Why don't you think Bob was just being honest with Doug after finding out from Roger?

Do you know something about Bob that we don't?

 

[HDCharlie]

Why don't you think Bob was just being honest with Doug after finding out from Roger?

Do you know something about Bob that we don't?

I think Bob should have known enough about the kinfe to be able to tell Roger in the first place. It shouldn't cost the buyer to find out there are problems with a knife that were not disclosed because of the ignorance of the seller, especially when selling knives is his profession.

 

[RGRAY]

Charlie, we're just going to have to disagree.

 

[Ritt]

This really does look to me like a series of unfortunate events.

There was was an initial honest miscommunication. Buyer wanted to know how the knife latched in the open position, seller described how "tight" the knife is when open (that is, is there any "play" in the open position). Honest miscommunication.

Buyer gets the knife, is not happy, and instead of calling the seller and talking to him, just ships the knife back. Bad call for sure, always best to take a breath/count to 10 when emotions are high. Of course the larger issue here is that we're all so paranoid about getting ripped off (because, in fact, there are plenty of people out there that are trying to rip us off) that we typically jump to the worst possible conclusion when a deal gets even the least little bit funky.

Buyer was convinced the knife had been flipped, seller knew for a fact that it had not been. Again, a phone call and respectful questions are infinitely better than an e-mail that, to the seller, certainly sounded like accusations of dishonesty. And of course once it gets personal there's the rapid downward spiral.

My take on it? Roger/anyone I think you jumped the gun on the return and then your e-mail inadvertently called into questions Bob's integrity. I bet if you'd called Bob and calmly talked to him after receiving the knife we wouldn't be reading about this. I don't know if this should cost you $100, but I do think you're largely to blame for the way the situation ended up. Don't get me wrong, I've made bigger and infinitely stupider mistakes... I'm pretty sure the phone lines are still up and working.

RGRAY, brother I hope I have at least one friend that is as loyal to me as you are to Bob. I respect the hell out of what you did here. But it seems that at this point we have all the information that's available, we can all make up our minds about what happened. Buyer and seller need to work this out on their own from here, I can't see any good coming from personal squabbles that spin off from the issue at hand.

Peace?

 

[GigOne]

One thing that I'd like to add is that one other time I bought my "first" knife from another dealer and it was not as advertised. When I spoke to that dealer he checked my complaint against another copy of the product and agreed that it was incorrectly represented. This dealer told me to wait a couple days and that he would send me a pre-paid / pre-insured mailer to return the knife in...

Being a business owner, I can understand the idea where the businesses that we frequent set the standards, so to speak, on how they handle their customers. In all honesty, you can’t expect every business to treat you the same. If you do, you set yourself up for a considerable let down. For example, I know of a major retail establishment that will accept “any” merchandise on return. It doesn’t have to be returned in its original packaging or with sales receipt(s). Helll, one doesn’t have to show/prove that product was purchased in “any” of their stores. There is no way, in the world, that I should expect any other retail establishment to honor this type of return policy.

Robert was quick to point out his “store policy” but it should also be noted that he stated that same policy states that he will work with a seller to make things “right”.

A claim to “make things right” is very subjective and could be interrupted differently by each and everyone of us. And it doesn’t seem that you asked for clarification.

Again, the “Terms and Conditions” are clearly posted on the site. I frequent and purchase from approximately 13 custom/production website dealers. Each one offers a differing degree of information, as to their “Terms and Conditions.”

I empathize with you. I experienced a similar situation several years ago, where I received a very expensive knife with “issues.”

Was it the dealers fault ? *shrugs shoulders *

Was it the makers fault ? *Helll yes ! *

The dealer had a “Terms and Conditions” statement on the website, and I ended up being redirected to the maker. Something that was contrary to the “Terms and Conditions” and I followed the dealers “Terms and Conditions” to the letter.

If you failed to adhere to the published “Terms and Conditions,” in that:

1. You failed to obtain return approval within 1 business day of receiving it
2. You failed to obtain a return number from the dealer
3. You failed to work with the maker on the defects

You should be assessed the 15% restocking fee.

I had to pay to ship the knife back, so I’m out on this deal too. This has also taken up a great deal of my time and I asked Robert to “Please make this right” so I could go away without any hard feelings or anything bad to say. I did tell Robert that I would contest his charge to my card and that I would post negatively about the sale.

Sounds like a hostage situation.

I think you should eat the $100.00 and move on.

At this point. Agree. . . .100% !




I honestly don't understand why someone would purchase a $1500 knife for half price and not send it to the maker for have the few defects reworked. Especially when the defects wouldn't require a "major" overhaul/rework.

 

[RGRAY]

...RGRAY, brother I hope I have at least one friend that is as loyal to me as you are to Bob. I respect the hell out of what you did here. I can't see any good coming from personal squabbles that spin off from the issue at hand. Peace?

Dale, I wish I could respond as well as you have just done.

I think you said it perfectly

On the first page it looked like Bob was being ganged up on and I couldn't let that happen.

He as gone out of his way more than once for me and he is VERY highly thought of on several forums.

If Roger would have posted this on Ramon's, or Jersey Devil's or Microholic's; he would have been eaten alive.

There is a thread right now "Bartoli for President" on one forum that was started by the forum's Administrator.

And here we have a Super Moderator questioning his integrate without even knowing the first thing about him.

 

[OilMan]

And here we have a Super Moderator questioning his integrate without even knowing the first thing about him.

While I don't agree with everything the SuperMod may say, he negged me for an on topic weight lifting pic in the Cove , I think he just as entitled to his opinion as anyone else. Would it matter any less if he weren't a supermod? I agree with him on this one. If I call ahead to make damn sure a knife is right before I buy it and am told it's a ok when it's not I wouldn't accept a $100 fee either. I've sent many Striders back for the exact same reason. Maybe this would make a dealer actually look at the knife closer if he/she thought they might be eating the shipping for sending out a clearly unfit knife.
It could have been handled a little smoother after the sale but I also know what it's like to specify what I would not buy only to have the dealer say it's good and ship it to you only to find that the part you asked about is exactly what you said you didn't want. It has a tendancy to piss people off.


oil

 

[DaveH]

This was certainly an unfortunate circumstance.

It seems to me that the buyer's intent was pretty clear in getting a knife that met his expectations. Quibling about did he ask exactly the right question is petty and disengenuous.

If the seller sent the knife back, and has proof of that, then reverse charges on the credit card and that's that.

As long as the seller continues to sell the poorly made knives in question, he'll probably have issues with other people in the future as well. I continue to feel that the knives should never have been accepted from the maker to begin with, and should not be sold to customers unless it's made absolutely clear these are not first quality knives. Selling them at 50% of the retail price is not sufficient notice of their inferiority.

 

[roughedges]

And here we have a Super Moderator questioning his integrate without even knowing the first thing about him.

Sometimes an independent and objective person given information from both parties in a dispute is much more qualified to check the scales of justice than one who is, admittedly, a long term friend/acquaintance of one of those involved in this dispute.

And cougar did not question his integrity, he questioned his knowledge of balisongs. If, as it seems, you are saying that thebrightedge has much knowledge of balisongs then it stands to reason that this all is either a result of a miscommunication or a matter of integrity.

That question will never be answered satisfactorily except in the minds of the two individuals involved and, in my opinion, your statement that cougar questioned thebrightedge's integrity does more to call it into question than ANY statement made by cougar here.

You, or anyone else for that matter, can not maintain your impartiality as an individual when you know one of the parties involved- that is very understandable, everyone does that. But, can you, or will you maybe, maintain it as a moderator?

I thought that, "the customer is always right". For myself, if I had purchased this knife and, as a result of misunderstanding or otherwise, the knife didn't match my expectations in relations to the questions asked on the phone, I would expect a full refund, apology (whether sincere or not, being polite is always nice) and an expressed desire to do business in the future. Being charged a $100 restocking fee is a slap in the face- payment of any actual charges incurred by thebrightedge should be more than enough.

All this being said, I also think that 'anyone' would not be in this situation if he had got a return authorization in the first place. Of course, anything regarding this is just speculation.


Regardless of all of this, I would be very hesitant to ever purchase anything from a retailer who has a return policy like this one. Even individuals selling knives and not in the business per se offer better terms than this! I would save any purchases for face to face meetings or just forget my wants altogether.