My Dispute with "The Bright Edge"

[RGRAY]

... I think he just as entitled to his opinion as anyone else...If I call ahead to make damn sure a knife is right before I buy it and am told it's a ok when it's not I wouldn't accept a $100 fee either...It could have been handled a little smoother after the sale but I also know what it's like to specify what I would not buy...

oil

What are you talking about?

"I think he just as entitled to his opinion as anyone else"

I agree, but he didn't express an opinion.

He said, "if I'm considering buying a balisong from you some time in the future? Is there any way I could find out whether it locks up tight both open and closed without risking a $100 restocking fee to find out?

Bob's policy isn't charging $100 it's 15% so it should have been $112.50 AND this is the first time he has ever charged a fee.

Bob sells $100+ BMs and MT balisongs; so it's not a $100 fee.

Yes, ask if the knife locks up tight both open and closed.

Roger didn't do that (read Ritt's and my post); that's not what he specificaly asked.

He said, "Bob, if I understand you correctly, you believe your recollection of the conversation is substantially different from Roger / Anyone's recollection..."

No it's not; "There was was an initial honest miscommunication. Buyer wanted to know how the knife latched in the open position, seller described how "tight" the knife is when open (that is, is there any "play" in the open position). Honest miscommunication." (read Ritt's and my post)

He said, "It seems to me that you didn't understand the question...

It seems to me that Roger did not specifically ask whether it locks up tight both open and closed."

He said, "I think you were trying your best to answer as honestly and clearly as you could, BUT YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BALISONGS...

Based on what doesn't Bob know anything about Balisongs?

Where did Bob say ANYTHING that indicaterd that he doesn't know anything about Balisong?

I really don't think anything more needs to be said on the subject; all the facts are here.

This is my last comment.

You decide.

 

[Cougar Allen]

According to Bob he did not know a balisong with a latch is supposed to latch up in the open position as well as in the closed position:

The knife is tight and against the stops, centered, and true in the open position, being a little bit interested in Bali's, I own several, I can say that in the open position I have never had the need, or the reasoning to latch the handle? It is important to latch it in the closed position, and on this knife it functions fine!

Robert Bartoli

That is somewhat analogous to not knowing a lockblade folder is supposed to lock open, or not knowing an auto is supposed to pop the blade out all by itself when the switch is pressed, but nevertheless I believe him.

The restocking fee is no longer at issue here -- the buyer has made a chargeback and I think most of us know what will happen if the dealer disputes that with the credit card company. He'll lose, and also lose additional fees.

Is this going to end with everybody unhappy? Is this going to end in bitterness and damaged reputation? I don't think it has to. I think it's still possible for everyone concerned to come to understand what went wrong and why it went wrong and how this kind of problem can be avoided in the future.

 

[RGRAY]

According to Bob he did not know a balisong with a latch is supposed to latch up in the open position

Bob said, "...I own several, I can say that in the open position I have never had the need, or the reasoning to latch the handle?

Just when I said I wasn't going to post any more.

How do you interpret that to mean that he DID NOT KNOW a balisong is supposed to latch up in the open position..."



Bob said he's never had the need; not that he didn't know.

You're not making any sense.

You're wrong and won't admit it.

 

[HDCharlie]

Bob said, "...I own several, I can say that in the open position I have never had the need, or the reasoning to latch the handle?

Just when I said I wasn't going to post any more.

How do you interpret that to mean that he DID NOT KNOW a balisong is supposed to latch up in the open position..."



Bob said he's never had the need; not that he didn't know.

You're not making any sense.

You're wrong and won't admit it.

You are a persistent, if nothing else. :yawn:

 

[roughedges]

Bob said, "...I own several, I can say that in the open position I have never had the need, or the reasoning to latch the handle?

Just when I said I wasn't going to post any more.

How do you interpret that to mean that he DID NOT KNOW a balisong is supposed to latch up in the open position..."



Bob said he's never had the need; not that he didn't know.

You're not making any sense.

You're wrong and won't admit it.

So, what cougar allen should have wrote, perhaps, is that Bob never had the need to latch a balisong in the open position. You're right on that, maybe he was mistaken.

However, the answer that Bob gave here, publicly, as quoted above by Rgray is no answer; it is an excuse. In my mind it boils down to this, when 'anyone' called and asked about its ability to latch in the open position what was thebrightedge's answer? Did he say that the knife can latch open or did he say he has never had a reason to latch a balisong in the open position?

One of these appears to be an out and out lie and the other is avoiding the question. Either way, it is not a valid answer to the question. as DaveH, I think, said, it is disingenious at best. At worst it is a lie. As I said before, only anyone and thebrightedge know the truth about that.

I apologize rgray, but I believe that your personal relationship is coloring your judgement on this one.


I mean no offense but, again in my opinion, it is not cougar allen who is making no sense in this thread.

 

[linos]

I love Benchmade`s 49-XX knives...and if someone was offering me one for 200-250$
first i would hit my head on the ceiling from exuberance(?)second i would ask allots(and i realy mean ALLOT) of why? and third i`d say yes or no and take full responsibility...

 

[roughedges]

I love Benchmade`s 49-XX knives...and if someone was offering me one for 200-250$
first i would hit my head on the ceiling from exuberance(?)second i would ask allots(and i realy mean ALLOT) of why? and third i`d say yes or no and take full responsibility...

take full responsibility... this assumes that the seller himself (in this hypothetical situation!) is entirely forthcoming in answering your questions right?

Or would you also take full responsibility if you felt the answers misleading?

 

[RGRAY]

So, what cougar allen should have wrote, perhaps, is that Bob never had the need to latch a balisong in the open position. You're right on that, maybe he was mistaken.

However, the answer that Bob gave here, publicly, ...when 'anyone' called and asked about its ability to latch in the open position what was thebrightedge's answer? Did he say that the knife can latch open or did he say he has never had a reason to latch a balisong in the open position?

I apologize rgray, but I believe that your personal relationship is coloring your judgement on this one.

I mean no offense but, again in my opinion, it is not cougar allen who is making no sense in this thread.

I don't know what you're reading; ROGER NEVER SPECIFICLY ASKED ABOUT ITS ABILITY TO LATCH IN THE OPEN POSITION.

Bob never told Roger he never had a reason to latch a balisong.

Where did that come from?

Bob was only making a point here on the forum.

Please do not apology; you're the one making no sense.

 

[linos]

Misleading is very different from misunderstanding and that`s what i believe (after reading all these threads in the various forums) has happened..If you ask me if there is a blade play in a balisong while open i would probably wont think of latching it either `cos i never do when open,i grip it and try to move the blade (right or wrong that`s what i do).Anyone(Roger) does latch his and in doing so when he asked the question (IMHO again) did not thought of making it a point to tell him to latch it and that is where things started down hill.
I said before that this could had been handled better and i believe it...
If i was selling a brand new knife at a big loss(making it even bigger with the S&H and CC charges) and then my buyer accuses me( unintentionally in the heat of the moment but never the less) of been dishonest you bet i would dug my heels in and you won`t move me even with a trailer tractor
For the Hypothetical i get a 500-550$(750 if it`s 49-01) knife for 200-250$ and then i spent 5$ to send it to BM and get a brand new knife you bet i get full responsibility and i smile all the way to the bank in doing so and thats what Doug is doing right now ...he is laughing his behind off reading this while flipping his 1500$ knife who cost him 700$
This is just my opinion and i could be wrong

 

[RGRAY]

...If you ask me if there is a blade play in a balisong while open i would probably wont think of latching it either `cos i never do when open,i grip it and try to move the blade (right or wrong that`s what i do).Anyone(Roger) does latch his and in doing so when he asked the question (IMHO again) did not thought of making it a point to tell him to latch it and that is where things started down hill.

Once again; WELL SAID.

Can you image all of us on a jury.

 

[roughedges]

Anyone's post #3:

The fact is, I called you and asked you SPECIFICALLY if the knife locked up securely in BOTH the OPEN and CLOSED positions. I would certainly not have bought it had I been told otherwise. It was also obvious that at one time this knife DID lock securely in the open position BECAUSE there is a wear mark in the blue anodize in the open position.

What exactly does lock up mean? Shall we now debate the meaning of the word 'the'?

Miscommunication, misinterpretation or whathave you, a $100 charge for returning merchandise (assuming it was done in a timely manner) that the customer finds unsatisfactory is not the action of one who either wants or need continuing business from would-be first time customers. And that is fine, it is thebrightedge's ToS to do with what he wishes. I honestly wish him the best in his business- it is obviously very successful if he can risk alienating dissatisfied customers in such a way. I do believe it is his right to do so... I just don't think that it IS right.

Rgray- my apology stands. The internet generally, and this thread specifically, can be a very volatile place and I wanted to state my opinion without needlessly insulting anyone. And so, an apology seemed appropriate.

 

[roughedges]

Once again; WELL SAID.

Can you image all of us on a jury.

This would be small claims, no jury involved!

Having said that, I will tell you honestly that I know exactly how a judge would find.

He would hear both sides and read the ToS and, without needing to see the knife, find in favor of thebrightedge. I don't doubt this even for an instant.

Like I said, it is his right. That in and of itself doesn't make it right.

 

[brightedge]

If Roger ever asked me to open the knife, latch it and tell him how the latch fit, send me a picture of this etc. I would have done it told him how it fit or didn't fit and go from there. He didn't. I have never latched it or tried to in the open position, the first time you would the anodizing would be mared. Take a look at every picture of a Bali on my site, everyone in the open position is unlatched. I have never even tried latching them. I got my Tachyon out yesterday and you would almost have to put your foot on it to latch it in the open position! Roger said the knife was used, refurbished, and resold as new, that is what he told me when he got it. He is not even sure if or how he asked me about the latch. Had a couple of Timebomb owners tell the folks here that there blade has the same marks in the blade tang as Roger said over and over and over had to come from constant flipping!

This knife is beautiful! Easily in the top 5 knives Brad has ever made! Do I sell Brads knives any more? Nope! Do I have any in my collection? Nope! Do I think this Bali was made at the best of Brads skill level? Yup! Could this and many of his knives be made better? Yup! Did it actually cost me about $60.00 just to get my ass kicked in charges by sending the knife to Roger? Yup! Do I wish Roger asked about the latch opened, or asked for pictures? Yup! Am I hard up enough to sell any of the knives I have, to lie about them? Nope!

Do I know everything in the world about knives? Nope! Do I know a lot and can hang with most on all aspects of knives in general? Yup! Did I tell the new owner that the latch was not tight when I had been aware of it? Yup!

Did I represent the knife as honestly to Roger as I could have? Yup! Do I think Roger has ever accepted that the only real thing wrong with the knife was the latch, and when discovered, did he even try to get anything resolved about the latch other than acusing me of selling a refurbished worn out knife? Nope! Did Roger already have bad feelings about this maker and his knives? Yup! Did he ever ask me hey what if I don't like this knife? Nope!

Last post here or anywhere on this matter. Sorry you were not happy with the knife Roger. Wish you would have asked more specific about the latch when open. Wish you would have asked me about what we would do if you did not like the knife.
Robert

 

[Cougar Allen]

I wish this had been resolved more amicably, and I still think it could have been had the circumstances been a little different. Regardless, it seems to have reached its conclusion.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I have been pulled in both directions on this one and I feel for both parties involved. I agree with Coug, it's too bad this wasn't worked out more amicably.

 

[Neil Ostroff]

Good day,

I do not know either of these gents but do know of Robert Bartoli and believe him to be a square person.

I do have some comments;

First, "Anyone"- in your opening post, you make the following statement;

because some of the maker's work has been suspect.

Man...... Why ever go there? If you feel that a particular maker’s work is not as good as required, then stay away!
There are so many great Knifemakers and great knives to buy it seems peculiar that one would go after a knife that has this cloud over it- whether the Knifemakers notoriety is warranted or not.
It seems to me that your perception of this knife/Knifemaker was already tainted before you ever purchased it.

Mr. Bartioli/Bright Edge has a right to conduct his business as he sees fit- no challenge at all from here.

We Internet Merchants are asking customers to PAY FIRST, and “only then” get to handle the merchandise, in our case, a knife that is a very personal article.
Different hand sizes and unique ways to judge a knife can be the difference between a happy customer and a return.
Sometimes, the customer just plain does not like it. In any case, in my opinion, a full immediate refund, less shipping costs, is in order.

Every merchant has right to lay out the rules, as Mr. Bartoli does very clearly on his website.
Therefore, as a restocking fee was in those rules, then the buyer should have been aware and not bellyache now after the knife did not please him.

The facts of the original conversation- he said that/no he said this/but maybe somebody said something else--- will never be known.

However, I maintain my position, that whatever the product, when buying “online” (mail order), there should be a clear 100% satisfaction refund policy in place to protect the consumer.

Take care, Neil

 

[anyone]

The fact is that I DID ASK IF THE KNIFE WOULD LATCH TIGHT IN BOTH THE OPEN AND CLOSED POSITIONS. I did so because I had heard rumors that some of Brad’s work was suspect… How many times do I need to repeat this????

I haven't resorted to calling any contributors to this post here a liar yet, but anybody who says otherwise IS lying. I knew that some of Brad's work was suspect, and that is EXACTLY why I called Robert in ADVANCE of the purchase.

What really makes me more sick than anything is Rick (RGRAY) rolling in here like he's the one with the conflict with me.. For Christ's sakes, let Robert speak for himself. All Rick is contributing is a bunch of flat-out lies and speculation at this point. I even tried working with this “waste of air” via email.. :barf:

The fact of the matter is that I think Robert has a hell of a lot MORE class than YOU do Rick... He’s certainly more well spoken. BTW, how many times HAVE you posted to this thread in your attempts to vilify me? Never mind, I’ll go back and count..

Given the fact that I grown pretty sick of having a “keyboard commando” come in here to dominate a thread (that is between Robert and I), I’ve decided that I won’t be posting anymore updates on progress in resolution of this problem here. I will put these issues into a web page and let folks know what’s going on with this deal.. It’ll take Google a couple weeks to pick up the meta tags but all you should need to do is search on any two or three “key” works or phrases that you’ve seen here.

Buh-bye Rick…. All you’ve really accomplished is to make this worse for Robert.

 

[anyone]

duplicate post... duh :footinmou

 

[anyone]

OK, Rick's got 22 posts out of 97....... Damn!!! is that a new record for you? I pity that you have so little life that you follow this thread with greater ferver than either Robert or I..

Wait a minute! You're just being such an a$$ tryin to make Robert look good? Right?

 

[anyone]

In any case, in my opinion, a full immediate refund, less shipping costs, is in order.

Good points, well taken.

I had told Robert that I would have offered to pay his shipping charges ($12.80) if he had not been insulting to me in his reply.