New Knife Co. on the Block " Kizer Knives" coming soon

Like it or not, companies like Kizer force other companies to innovate. Personally, I'd rather have a knife made in the US or Japan, but that's not saying I wouldn't buy a Chinese knife if there was a plethora of tests proving its quality, especially if they make it available for a good price while American companies gouge the crap out of their consumers just for profit. You're telling me that if a Kizer knife had many good, solid tests performed and its knock offs performed just as good or better than an American made knife and they sell it for, literally, a fraction of tbe price, you wouldn't think it reasonable for a guy with limited funds to purchase one of the Kizer knives over another, crappier, Chinese made knife that costs just as much or more?

If the choice was a benchmade for 100 bucks or a Kizer for a 100 bucks, I'd choose Kizer hands down. If the choice was Kizer for 200 or a ZT for 200, I'd choose ZT. If it was between a Kizer knockoff for 100 bucks or a ZT collaboration for 200, then I'd choose the ZT unless there were multiple side by side tests showing Kizer makes the better knife, knockoff or not. I work hard for my money and won't give it away for nice sentiments and unicorns. ZT, and other knifemakers, have proven themselves with quality knives and great customer service. IMO, Kizer has a long, long way to catch up.
 
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And am I the only one who doesn't think it's terribpy obvious there are multiple shills in this topic?
Shills as in the guy that declared straight up he works for the company, under a name indicating he works for the company?

Or "shills" as in "Anyone that doesn't agree with me"?
 
Shills as in the guy that declared straight up he works for the company, under a name indicating he works for the company?

Or "shills" as in "Anyone that doesn't agree with me"?
Hmmm. Guy joins less than a month ago, says he would buy a $100 Kizer over a $100 US made knife, and is ruthlessly defending the company.

That said, why are you so emotionally invested? Kind of funny you have such a recent join date and are so interested in defending the brand. :rolleyes:
 
When did I defend Kizer? It was actually an attack against American companies that price gouge, in turn forcing consumers into the arms of companies like Kizer when their wishes to begin with are to buy American, or at least companies that don't rip off designs. And yea, I'm a shill when I said that ZT, really KAI in general, produces good knives for the price and their customer service is top notch while Kizer has yet to prove anything. Sure. I'm a shill because my entire experience with Benchmade has been bad so for 100 bucks I'd be willing to give an unproven company like Kizer my money versus a known company which I don't like. So yea, I'm a shill.
 
I have no firsthand knowledge of where Kizer's designs come from so I will leave that out of my post. Saturday I went in to my local shop and he had 3 Kizer models in the case. I looked at 2 Ti framelock flipper and was astounded when I flipped them over and saw China on the blade. The quality and fit and finish were truly excellent. Both were centered and flipped silky smooth. Lockup was about 40% just eye balling it. The grinds were nice and they had good edges. I'm not gonna lie, I liked them and may purchase one in the future, right after I get my hands on a Kwaiken flipper.

I have no problem with knives made in China. It's taken some convincing for sure, but I've come a long way in my Chinese knife prejudice and the dreaded China stamp is no longer a deal breaker for me as long as the quality is there. I still don't buy junk, no matter where it's made.
 
blademaker2, you mentioned that you had US Customs/Homeland Security coming by the show to check out Kizer. Did they confiscate any illegal knives or shut down the Kizer booth. Did they take any action there?
Folks never showed up....just too small an issue for ICE. Only way that copyright or patent issue could be pursued is via lawsuit, hiring an attorney in CHINA. Not that big a thing for me at this point. I'm doing what Chris Reeve, Rick Hinderer, Mick Strider, etc. have done....just keep focused on my own work. Look at my T-10 when you get a chance.....wonder how long before they ripoff this one too ?? My life goes on.....and I have a few more designs to make. Take care.
 
Folks never showed up....just too small an issue for ICE. Only way that copyright or patent issue could be pursued is via lawsuit, hiring an attorney in CHINA. Not that big a thing for me at this point. I'm doing what Chris Reeve, Rick Hinderer, Mick Strider, etc. have done....just keep focused on my own work. Look at my T-10 when you get a chance.....wonder how long before they ripoff this one too ?? My life goes on.....and I have a few more designs to make. Take care.

A knife which, interestingly, came out long after the kizer 4412 had.

You're really bad at lying.
 
I met three reps. from KIZER at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas 3 years ago. They had some nice looking knives and one of their reps. is an American citizen. He offered to show me a selection of samples of knives they could make. I was shown photos that looked like a Reeve/Strider/Hinderer catalog, knives that Kizer/Kiser/Toubitou had made and was selling via www.alibabaexpress.com I have no doubts re the quality of their product, just reservations re how they do business.
My Tango retails for $450 and their similar knife sells for somewhere around $100. I have difficulty suggesting that everyone buy American because most of my handtools came from Harbor Freight. But at least with Harbor Freight I know that the tools are made in China and the $.79 screwdriver won't last as long as a Kobalt or a Craftsman tool. It's my choice. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I just came out with my new T-10. A customer in CA says he has already seen a Chinese ripoff. OK....I'm outta here. hopefully maybe somebody out there with some spare $$$ will sacrifice a Kizer blade and analyze the steel. Betcha an egg roll it aint s30v or s35vn. Might also be interesting to find out type of titanium being used, since much of their stuff is framelock. Back to the shop.....
 
A knife which, interestingly, came out long after the kizer 4412 had.

You're really bad at lying.
As an expert on Kizer and Tim Britton knives, I wonder if you can tell us when each version was first made and how and where you got this information ?? I'm not sure that I can tell you when I designed my Tango....at least 2 years ago....but I sure know when I started seeing ad for this knife with KIZER name in BLADE....like 4 months ago.....
 
I met three reps. from KIZER at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas 3 years ago. They had some nice looking knives and one of their reps. is an American citizen. He offered to show me a selection of samples of knives they could make. I was shown photos that looked like a Reeve/Strider/Hinderer catalog, knives that Kizer/Kiser/Toubitou had made and was selling via www.alibabaexpress.com I have no doubts re the quality of their product, just reservations re how they do business.
My Tango retails for $450 and their similar knife sells for somewhere around $100. I have difficulty suggesting that everyone buy American because most of my handtools came from Harbor Freight. But at least with Harbor Freight I know that the tools are made in China and the $.79 screwdriver won't last as long as a Kobalt or a Craftsman tool. It's my choice. As I've mentioned in an earlier post, I just came out with my new T-10. A customer in CA says he has already seen a Chinese ripoff. OK....I'm outta here. hopefully maybe somebody out there with some spare $$$ will sacrifice a Kizer blade and analyze the steel. Betcha an egg roll it aint s30v or s35vn. Might also be interesting to find out type of titanium being used, since much of their stuff is framelock. Back to the shop.....

I take it you are not going to respond to being called out on releasing a knife AFTER the supposed "ripoff" had been in my pocket for weeks.

Additionally, it has been confirmed that the steel is S35vn. By Crucible. It is also definitely Ti as it is non magnetic and heat anodizes just the same. I can't verify for you which variety of Ti, but I have a framelock flipper that I've been flipping and using for a few weeks now and the lockup has not moved and the frame does not deform easily.
 
As an expert on Kizer and Tim Britton knives, I wonder if you can tell us when each version was first made and how and where you got this information ?? I'm not sure that I can tell you when I designed my Tango....at least 2 years ago....but I sure know when I started seeing ad for this knife with KIZER name in BLADE....like 4 months ago.....

The burden of proof lies on the accuser. Demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that they stole the designs and you wouldn't have to make every single one of your posts part of a crusade to smear kizer like you have for the last six months. Additionally, information arose very quickly, coupled with signed documents, about you making a deal with Kizer. Funny how you didn't mention that aspect.

Own up and move on.
 
Mr. Comeuppance, you seem to be having fun so I'll leave you and your pigeonbrain to create arguments with others willing to rise to your bait. Have fun....I'll leave you to play with yourself. I have work to do. Thankfully there are customers who pay little attention to your BS and know the difference between fact and cloudy illusion.
 
Doesn't look like proof to me blademaker2. We here at BladeForums are a fair group and when someone is called out for a very serious accusation such as copy right infringement we take that seriously. But what we won't do is simply take someone's word for it. So far no evidence has been provide by yourself that the tango was your creation alone. In fact reps from Kizer have provided documents in which there seems to be some agreement between you two so it seems theres a lot more to the story than it seems.

Kizer has recently lender a few of their knives for a pass around so we'll see soon enough how their products stack up. I'm betting there not the cheap flea market knives your leading us to believe.
 
I think Jim Skelton posted on You Tube after he bought a Tango, and Kizer came out with the facsimile there of a signed contract between Mr. Briton and Kizer of them producing that knife in whole and finishing etc. done by Mr. Briton. I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt but wild accusations of Customs taking an interest etc. just don't seem to float with me. Especially ICE. Beats me but I own and have owned a couple of Kizer knives, I know for a fact they are using S35VN as stated, Crucible CSR said so here on the BF's, and I know a high quality knife when I handle one, see one and use one. KIZER is high quality by anyone's standard no matter where they are made. So there ya go. keepem sharp
 
Mr. Comeuppance, you seem to be having fun so I'll leave you and your pigeonbrain to create arguments with others willing to rise to your bait. Have fun....I'll leave you to play with yourself. I have work to do. Thankfully there are customers who pay little attention to your BS and know the difference between fact and cloudy illusion.

I take issue with this statement. Comeuppance has you dead to rights and all you have to do is show a little proof- something you have failed to do at every turn(unless I missed something), while Kizer has stepped up and as far as I'm concerned, proven their side of the argument with documentation. You talk about cloudy illusion but when called out all you do is break out the smoke and mirrors.

If you want to be taken seriously you have to come with facts and proof and not just sling mud. Ok, I've disagreed with you, I'm ready to be insulted now.
 
As far as i'm concerned, it is not necessary for Kizer (or anyone else) to have to respond to anything Mr. Britton has to say on this subject.
 
Interesting thread.

Coincidentally, I purchased a Kizer KI401X-EC3-13. 3.5" S35N blade, 6AL4V titanium handle on Friday (from Knifeworks) - before seeing this thread. Should be in sometime next week. I'm unbiased in this issue and have no opinion on the Britton v Kizer controversy but will be able to make comments on the quality of the knife after I get it in. And I'm no shill for either party. ;)
 
Mr. Comeuppance, you seem to be having fun so I'll leave you and your pigeonbrain to create arguments with others willing to rise to your bait. Have fun....I'll leave you to play with yourself. I have work to do. Thankfully there are customers who pay little attention to your BS and know the difference between fact and cloudy illusion.

And there we have it. Insults and an unwillingness to provide proof.

It's a strange day. An American knifemaker looking bad in a situation with a Chinese knife company.
 
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