PayPal F&F only ... REALLY???

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Not only is cheating paypal wrong, but the more F&F gets used fraudulently, I'm concerned they may decide to change their policy. I appreciate being able to send money to family without fees, and it's nice that paypal offers this service. I wouldn't blame them if they look over the numbers and decide it isn't worth it.
 
r8shell said:
Not only is cheating paypal wrong, but the more F&F gets used fraudulently, I'm concerned they may decide to change their policy. I appreciate being able to send money to family without fees, and it's nice that paypal offers this service. I wouldn't blame them if they look over the numbers and decide it isn't worth it.
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Also true. I needed to pay my brother's rent a couple times this last year, and I'm glad I didn't have to pay fees on it.
 
SuckSqueezeBangBlow said:
On Australian blade forums we only use F&F, it seems to work well for us down here and never going to worry about getting investigated for tax etc.

The way I see it is like this. Knife collecting is like a pass around with a buy in price and then the money and knives just change hands between friends.

A bit over simplified but that's how it feels.
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There are lots of ways to try and rationalize a need to use F&F, but none hold water if you are doing a transaction for goods and services. If you use F&F you are giving the money away and should not expect or get anything in return(other than Thank You). It sounds like tax evasion(but will leave that to another thread), but you should use another form of transfer such as money orders if you don't want to use PP properly.
Using PP F&F for goods and services is simply wrong-there is no grey area.
 
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I saw one the other day, it demanded F&F or a money order of all things (yea...right!). There aren't many reasons why a sale is a 100% hard pass no matter what the item/price but demanding F&F is one of them, there is not legitimate reason for it and it screams "I'm going to screw you!".

As far as the whole "net to me/add 2.9/3.5 whatever %" song and dance, just factor it into your price from the start FFS. I am fine with people paying me with F&F, but I'll never ask for it. My sale prices are always set with the G&S fees in mind.
 
One thing is that the biggest offenders in this category are people whose only forum 'participation' is in the sale and trade subforums, which should tell you something right there.

So there's a lot of preaching to the choir right now.
 
madcap_magician said:
One thing is that the biggest offenders in this category are people whose only forum 'participation' is in the sale and trade subforums, which should tell you something right there.

So there's a lot of preaching to the choir right now.
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Yep.

Sadly, it seems that threads on this subject are only ever folks preaching to the choir. They're worthwhile as they may teach someone new how many perceive this subject, yet i havent seen nor expect one of the pro Gifters to join in and explain their position.
 
r8shell said:
Not only is cheating paypal wrong, but the more F&F gets used fraudulently, I'm concerned they may decide to change their policy. I appreciate being able to send money to family without fees, and it's nice that paypal offers this service. I wouldn't blame them if they look over the numbers and decide it isn't worth it.
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This. I mean, they have to know that they are being defrauded by a ton of people who aren't selling on eBay. Ten years ago, eBay was the way to buy and sell stuff (especially collectibles), and when PP joined up with them, it became very difficult to NOT have them collect their fees. However, now that there are millions of transactions being conducted between people on Instagram, Facebook pages, forums, etc. I am not sure how they couldn't be aware of the millions of dollars in revenue they're being scammed out of. I fully expect at some point, the option of F&F will go away, and people will have to move to something like Applepay or whatever other pay options are out there. Seems like a new one is popping up every day. I saw that even Facebook has a "Click here to send money to this person" now.
 
hhmoore said:
In one of the many threads on this subject, it was suggested that like-minded people inform sellers (of items they would have purchased) that their terms of payment had cost them a sale. It was an in interesting discussion; but, having received a warning for doing so, I'm not recommending that approach, lol.
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Did you post in the sales thread or did you do it by private message/email? Curious as to why you received a warning.
 
HappyDaddy said:
That may be how it “feels,” but the reality is that you are a thief. Theft of PP services is no less thievery than any other version.
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Wow what a hot topic. I'm not a business selling knives, I just kind of trade them around with whatever difference in value there happens to be, as a hobbyist.
I wonder how many times a knife has to change hands in the USA before PP has made more profit than the original knife maker?
I think down here is AUS we haven't had as many scammers (thieves, if you like) not delivering through with their knives because if scamming was as culturally rife then I would expect to see, and understand a move to using G&S.
 
Jsega51 said:
Did you post in the sales thread or did you do it by private message/email? Curious as to why you received a warning.
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Private message. (I don't post in ads, except occasionally to tell the seller that his inbox is full)
I got a warning because the seller complained...apparently it was viewed as harassment because I wasn't negotiating, just telling him why I wasn't buying.
 
hhmoore said:
Private message. (I don't post in ads, except occasionally to tell the seller that his inbox is full)
I got a warning because the seller complained...apparently it was viewed as harassment because I wasn't negotiating, just telling him why I wasn't buying.
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Thanks for the explanation, that’s exactly what I was wondering. Funny the mods would take it that way. I wonder if they also notified the whining seller that he shouldn’t be using PayPal FF when selling goods.
 
I think they were referring more to the fact you rip off PayPal and illegally I might add circumventing their policy.

And yes you leave yourself and the buyer wide open no protection ... but there is still the point of breaking policies and the law ... and these are the types of abuses that cause good things to disappear over time ... you may think oh they can afford it they are a huge company ... well when a million transactions think that they lose money and either close or increase rates for the honest people using their service.

And if PayPal makes a few dollars 100 times on one knife ... that isn't PayPal's fault people wanted to sell it 99 times ... PayPal didn't set the price or resell it ... the provided you with an easy way to sell it 99 times if that is what you chose to do with it.

There is just no good excuse for it and I know the forums aren't responsible and won't police the actions and shouldn't have to ...

but I hope members step up and change it by refusing to do business that way ... it's on each member to make it change one refusal to buy with F&F at a time.

I guess it's pretty simple to me ... and obvious ... but hey I'm just a simple countryboy.
 
SuckSqueezeBangBlow said:
Wow what a hot topic. I'm not a business selling knives, I just kind of trade them around with whatever difference in value there happens to be, as a hobbyist.
I wonder how many times a knife has to change hands in the USA before PP has made more profit than the original knife maker?
I think down here is AUS we haven't had as many scammers (thieves, if you like) not delivering through with their knives because if scamming was as culturally rife then I would expect to see, and understand a move to using G&S.
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It is not just about the adding the protection. It is also about paying PP for the service used. In our type of transactions it is done on the honor system. Sending money to help out a friend or family member(or gift) is what F&F is for. A knife is a good and the transaction should be done with G&S and the proper fee for the service they provide paid. Most of us aren't running a business either nor do we make a profit.
You agreed(read agreement) to use the proper payment when you signed on with PP and if memory serves me the proper payment to use is described when you make the choice of payment options.
They are not running a charity for our benefit, and has been mentioned -If people abuse F&F they may just take that option away , which would be a loss to those that use it correctly
How many times a knife is sold plays no part in if the fee should be paid or not. If it sells 10 times they provide a service 10 times and should be paid 10 times.
If you don't think the service is worth the money, don't use them.
 
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SuckSqueezeBangBlow said:
Wow what a hot topic. I'm not a business selling knives, I just kind of trade them around with whatever difference in value there happens to be, as a hobbyist.
I wonder how many times a knife has to change hands in the USA before PP has made more profit than the original knife maker?
I think down here is AUS we haven't had as many scammers (thieves, if you like) not delivering through with their knives because if scamming was as culturally rife then I would expect to see, and understand a move to using G&S.
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As noted by others, you missed the point entirely. Using f&f to pay for good and services is stealing paypal’s service. It’s no different from running an extension cord and plugging into your neighbors outlet or splicing into their cable tv line.
 
SuckSqueezeBangBlow said:
Wow what a hot topic. I'm not a business selling knives, I just kind of trade them around with whatever difference in value there happens to be, as a hobbyist.
I wonder how many times a knife has to change hands in the USA before PP has made more profit than the original knife maker?
I think down here is AUS we haven't had as many scammers (thieves, if you like) not delivering through with their knives because if scamming was as culturally rife then I would expect to see, and understand a move to using G&S.
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Scamming isn't rife here in the US either. I'd wager that the amount of transactions on the forums that are attempts at scamming another lie well below 1% of the total.

A word of caution. With no fences up, it will only take one wolf to eviscerate the herd.
 
HappyDaddy said:
As noted by others, you missed the point entirely. Using f&f to pay for good and services is stealing paypal’s service.
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Maybe this person will respond to as why he’s taking FF only. This was posted in the traditional exchange just minutes ago:

BerkshireHunter said:
For sale:

>Like new GEC 43 natural canvas micarta with professional mirror edge.
Asking $111 net shipped USPS priority mail
PayPal Friends & Family only

>Also selling a GEC 44, green linen micarta
Asking $90 net shipped
PayPal Friends & Family only


Preferably US buyers/ shipping
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