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PayPal F&F only ... REALLY???

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by JJ_Colt45, Nov 27, 2018.

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  1. hhmoore

    hhmoore Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    Net and F&F only in the same ad... I'm guessing he wants the buyer to cover shipping?
    A few of the sellers with whom I've communicated claimed to have not been aware of the issues with F&F payments, and stated that they had basically copied their payment terms from other ads. I'm not surprised - when such things are tolerated, they spread... becoming commonplace and, eventually, seeming "normal".
    Deinos likes this.
  2. Babboonbobo


    May 20, 2017
    Do as suggested earlier and just add the fees or pay the asked amount with G&S if they cancel the sale then so be it! I only pay the asking price about 50% of the time anyways so when I negotiate price then I figure the gs cost into what I’m willing to pay just as seller should fingure inyknwhat they’ll accept.

    I belong to a couple gun forums and use personal checks all the time, that’s my preferred method to pay for as much stuff as possible but I know them and we’ve met many times for shoots and dinners.

    I only accept G&S from people I don’t know!!
  3. hhmoore

    hhmoore Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    @rickt-va requests very discreet F&F
    Maybe he'll participate in this discussion, as well
  4. ToxicBot11


    Apr 28, 2013
    The $20,000 and 200 transactions per year (it has to be both) are IRS 1099k thresholds.

    Some states have lowered that threshold to $600 or more per year for a 1099k..Massachusetts is one I think..FnF payments are not included.

    1099k's are a headache. Maybe that's why some are asking for FnF payments?
  5. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    As I have said before-people have no problem coming up with excuses as to why they use F&F, but it is still the wrong product to use for G&S transactions. They either should use the proper product and pay the appropriate fees, or find a different product such as money orders. Sorry but I have never heard a valid excuse , only self serving ones.
    Not trying to be PP police or implying it is the worst act ever, but it clearly is wrong and those using it inappropriately don't have a leg to stand on.
  6. SuckSqueezeBangBlow


    Apr 23, 2017
    Has anyone asked PayPal whether you can use F&F if you are not a merchant selling for profit? Being part of a hobbyist club and basically evaluating samples of knives (incurring small losses each time) should be ok, given how much money PayPal makes off legitimate merchant sales. F&F is just their way of providing a free service to give back to the community
  7. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    F&F is not meant to be used for any sales ... only for gifting money ... it's clearly outlined in their policies.
  8. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    If they find you are using F&F for sales items they will restrict your account to G&S only. There have been a few on the knife forums to have this happen. They say just that in the user agreement.
    This why people request you don't list the item when making a PP F&F payment. PP knows people are doing this but it is likely not cost effective to deal with them unless it becomes blatant and repeated.
    Dealing with each individual is a problem now and in the future, eliminating F&F for all wouldn't be.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  9. Blue Sky

    Blue Sky Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 16, 2002
    Nice and concise, the way it should be done. The only advantage to not actually spell out the final cost with fees, etc. included is to make the price look artificially low and draw people in. One of the oldest sales tricks in the book. Pass.
    onekerf, stonesell and benchwarmer380 like this.
  10. benchwarmer380

    benchwarmer380 Valyrian Member Platinum Member

    Sep 17, 2012

    It is, but not in the ways you are ascribing to it.
    annr and buckfynn like this.
  11. madcap_magician

    madcap_magician Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 27, 2005
    Why, that sounds like a smashing great assignment for someone who is using F&F to buy and sell goods but is not a merchant selling for profit! Might you know where we might find such a fellow?
    benchwarmer380 likes this.
  12. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 9, 2018
    Just for the heck of it I ran through the fifteen ads appearing now on the Traditionals for sale sub forum. The numbers are:

    No mention of preferred payment method: 4
    Buyer's option, G&S or F&F: 1
    Goods & Services: 11
    Net to me: 4

    As a snapshot it seems that most of the sellers are doing it right. It was a surprise to me that four sellers didn't mention any preference for payment, although those listings may have been edited after the knife sold.

    The 'net to me' folks are the hard ones to figure. They're expecting the buyer to figure out how much money to send. That strikes me as weird.
    katanas likes this.
  13. benchwarmer380

    benchwarmer380 Valyrian Member Platinum Member

    Sep 17, 2012
    Agreed. What's worse are the ones that list a price "net to me" and then say that shipping is included. Net shipped is alternate way to phrase it. That's just dumb.

    Apparently for some, if you don't want to pay with F&F, adding 15% to G&S is the thing to do. Alrighty then. :rolleyes:
    uxo2 and buckfynn like this.
  14. hhmoore

    hhmoore Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 7, 2014
    Wow - it's tempting to contact him just to get his paypal info... and turn him in.
  15. Jsega51

    Jsega51 Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 11, 2015
    @TNPikR, what’s the reason for asking someone to pay 15% in fees that you’re responsible for?? And when the fees aren’t even that high?
    uxo2, bonky, BD_01 and 2 others like this.
  16. John_0917

    John_0917 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 15, 2014
    I always expect people to pay with G&S and that's how I always buy. That said, I make a point of not specifying that you have to do so. Like I said earlier, I calculate my asking price to account for fees and shipping costs and that's why my price is "all inclusive" in my view. That said, if someone makes the choice to use F&F (and some do) then I proceed as usual, this happens so infrequently it's not even worth dealing with the correction.
  17. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    The "add 15%" sale ad is ridiculous. Why don't you just calculate in the 15% yourself, along with the shipping costs, and then just give a final G&S price? Boom! All in the rules along with buyer protection!! Wake up folks!
  18. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    I agree with you completely!

    But why sell it for one price by two methods and then want 15% added when it would cost less than 3% ... unless it's international ... in which case we go full circle to ... use the appropriate method ... whether it's money order personal check etc ...

    BUT STOP THE PAYPAL F&F ... it's not rocket science.

    This must be use of the "new math" I've heard about ... smh.
  19. sharp_edge

    sharp_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 30, 2015
    That seller clearly does not want to accept PayPal goods.
    bonky likes this.
  20. JJ_Colt45

    JJ_Colt45 Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 11, 2014
    Seems many don't ... even if you volunteer to pay the fees ... that should tell you all you need to know.
    bonky likes this.
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