Bad Pazazuzu, aka Miguel Castro Jr, do not deal with, forced to seek refund viaPayPal for intent. scam

I would definately talk to PayPal first ... and even then call ZT and have a conversation with them about what they would do with the knife or if they would help with a claim before sending it to ZT ... as someone stated PayPal usually requires a return to refund (which is my understanding also)
and if ZT destroys the knife you may not have that option ... just do your homework with both PayPal first and then if they recommend involving ZT go from there ... but it sounds like you already have emails from ZT stating if was a fake.

And since PayPal is the entity assisting in getting your refund I'd follow their instructions. Hopefully you'll be made whole soon.

and just maybe the Seller can admit if he made a bad choice and do the right thing ... and maybe save his reputation a bit or if he wants to go down this road and end up shunned and or banned.
 
craytab said:
PayPal will require the item be returned. Seller knows this and in doing so he will get at least something for it when he tries to sell it on eBay or elsewhere. No character. It is a win win for him either way.
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Thats what I suspected, and that's a bad outcome too, because I know it may be used to burn somebody. I posted this on a ZT fan page and because of it, two other individuals told me they realized they purchased fakes. Smaller blades, no belly on the tanto, wave feature looks different, no milling on lock bar relief cut, all telling features.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
I would definately talk to PayPal first ... and even then call ZT and have a conversation with them about what they would do with the knife or if they would help with a claim before sending it to ZT ... as someone stated PayPal usually requires a return to refund (which is my understanding also)
and if ZT destroys the knife you may not have that option ... just do your homework with both PayPal first and then if they recommend involving ZT go from there ... but it sounds like you already have emails from ZT stating if was a fake.

And since PayPal is the entity assisting in getting your refund I'd follow their instructions. Hopefully you'll be made whole soon.

and just maybe the Seller can admit if he made a bad choice and do the right thing ... and maybe save his reputation a bit or if he wants to go down this road and end up shunned and or banned.
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Definitely the right call, PayPal's rules on PayPal's ruling. Will need a little bit more leg work but totally worth it. I feel that ZT will say to provide official statement regarding it they would need it sent in, but I already have the email stating a professional opinion of an executive there. I will for sure find out what is necessary before I send this anywhere!
 
Mikey13folsom said:
This is my concern as well. ZT is notorious for keeping clones upon verification and destroying them without any warning to the owner, save an email stating the item was counterfeit after the fact. The thread showing the clone, the email, and many fellow collectors opinions on a ZT fan page with over 9000 members of ZT lovers was evidence enough for me to believe it is fake. I believe he knows that if I send it in, it will be destroyed and he wont refund.
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Counterfeits are contraband, subject to destruction by law enforcement or the party whose intellectual property has been stolen. They are not legally owned by anyone as no one has a legally-enforceable right to posses them.

In all fifty states, this was a sale by description. If it is not the brand and model represented, the seller has failed to keep his part of the bargain and the OP is entitled to a full refund. THAT, rather than forum rules about everyone being satisfied, is legally enforceable.

As noted, if the seller knew it was counterfeit and used the U.S. Mails or any "private interstate mail carrier" to deliver the goods or take payment, he has committed Mail Fraud, a federal felony. The federal system has no parole. You do every day.

There is also Wire Fraud - another ticket to the Gray Bar Hotel - fraud involving the use of telecommunications or information technology (Think Internet.)
 
Thomas Linton said:
Counterfeits are contraband, subject to destruction by law enforcement or the party whose intellectual property has been stolen. They are not legally owned by anyone as no one has a legally-enforceable right to posses them.

In all fifty states, this was a sale by description. If it is not the brand and model represented, the seller has failed to keep his part of the bargain and the OP is entitled to a full refund. THAT, rather than forum rules about everyone being satisfied, is legally enforceable.

As noted, if the seller knew it was counterfeit and used the U.S. Mails or any "private interstate mail carrier" to deliver the goods or take payment, he has committed Mail Fraud, a federal felony. The federal system has no parole. You do every day.

There is also Wire Fraud - another ticket to the Gray Bar Hotel - fraud involving the use of telecommunications or information technology (Think Internet.)
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Heavy, heavy stuff! Thank you for your extremely well researched and informed comment. All I have asked for is a refund, I didn't want to have to send the blade back because it could be used again to cause a problem such as this to another member of the community, but PayPal may require me to. I doubt that the seller would refund me any other way unless I followed through with a PayPal claim, so hopefully they can be reasonable about this whole situation.
 
I realize that boru13 has said that he will revisit this today. I hope that he will ban this POS from BF. The simple fact of his admission that he would cheerfully sell a fake on eBay should be sufficient to show him the door here. A slime ball crook anywhere is a slime ball crook everywhere.
 
A good seller who would like to be around for awhile, would have taken it back immediately for a full refund(including shipping). Pay Pal claim should not have been needed, for a transaction where you were definitely at fault-product not as described. If you didn't realize it was a fake, that's too bad. If you did and tried to just pass the buck that's unforgivable.
Pay Pal's guarantee is a great back up, but a claim should rarely be needed. As a seller you should be pro-active and handle you own problems.
Just saying.
 
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braillediver said:
Done. That's why you use PayPal.

If you don't want to return it then you don't want a refund. There shouldn't be 5 pages of drama over this.
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Bull.
Exposing a seller that knowingly sold a suspected fake (and said sellers reaction) is what caused the 5 pages.

I for one, think this is exactly what this forum is for...

Admittedly, I may be misunderstanding your post, but it reads (to me) with a tone of defending the seller?
 
Peter Hartwig said:
A good seller who would like to be around for awhile, would have taken it back immediately for a full refund(including shipping). Pay Pal claim should not have been needed, for a transaction where you were definitely at fault-product not as described. If you didn't realize it was a fake, that's too bad. If you did and tried to just pass the buck that's unforgivable.
Pay Pal's guarantee is a great back up, but a claim should rarely be needed. As a seller you should be pro-active and handle you own problems.
Just saying.
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And that's all I've asked for is an honest refund. I was willing to work with him in order to avoid a messy outcome because mistakes can happen, but once the seller basically told me its your problem now, deal with it, I couldn't swallow that. So I went through proper channels, spoke with a moderator, and started this thread. Passing a clone on to someone else is pretty bad, I would never do it. I had hoped the seller would've made it right, but that's not the case. Thanks for weighing in!
 
Mikey13folsom said:
And that's all I've asked for is an honest refund. I was willing to work with him in order to avoid a messy outcome because mistakes can happen, but once the seller basically told me its your problem now, deal with it, I couldn't swallow that. So I went through proper channels, spoke with a moderator, and started this thread. Passing a clone on to someone else is pretty bad, I would never do it. I had hoped the seller would've made it right, but that's not the case. Thanks for weighing in!
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Have you started your PayPal claim?
 
stonproject said:
I think seller realized it was fake and pawned it off on you. He was probably screwed originally and instead of dealing with guy he got it from, he chose to try and pull a fast one over on you.

If he's banned you should post his name and address to save other members from dealing with him
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This is my suspicion as well. I was the person who brought this up to Mikey when I going to purchase his older ZT. He was selling he 204p at a good price and I check pazuzus listed and the new ZT didn’t look right.


I think you should just file a claim biased on recieving a counterfeit and return the item. He will probably try and sell it on eBay but I don’t see how that would be unavoidable without you taking the hit.
 
pazazuzu said:
Yes, I saw this post. He is welcome to file any claim until after he gets confirmation that it is fake. I purchased this off a fellow member on this forum, as I told him. Had the knife for awhile and then re-sold it here. In addition to selling a few others and buying quite a bit more than I have sold. I let him know that it was sold to me as an authentic and I sold it as I bought it. It was his discretion to investigate it further. I only said as much as pretty much anyone on these forums can.
His insistence and constant emails is what started to bother me as he was suggesting that I knew about it. Which I didn't, otherwise I would have just attempted to sell it on eBay, which could have easily been done. And as I mentioned, I buy on here more than I sell, as you can see from my positive transactions; including trading with other members. You are welcome to think what you want. It is your prerogative as a an individual. And he is also welcome to file a claim. But next time; hopefully this individual first gets definite proof by sending the knife to the manufacturer before he starts throwing out stupid claims.
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You are not getting it. He is not happy with the knife - it really doesn't matter much if it is fake or not to be honest. Why should he have to file a claim with PP?
You should just refund they guy his money when he sends it back to you. That is the first thing you should have said.

Another one for the ignore list
 
fq55 said:
This is my suspicion as well. I was the person who brought this up to Mikey when I going to purchase his older ZT. He was selling he 204p at a good price and I check pazuzus listed and the new ZT didn’t look right.


I think you should just file a claim biased on recieving a counterfeit and return the item. He will probably try and sell it on eBay but I don’t see how that would be unavoidable without you taking the hit.
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I'm grateful for the insight on it, I was fooled! The only problem I would have in returning is having this used on another person, but what else can I do? $220 is a lot of money to just swallow. I'm in contact with PayPal now concerning this and taking the proper steps for a claim. Thank you fq55 fq55 !
 
*update PayPal claim has been filed, with documentation of original sales thread, previous thread showing knife as example as clone, private messages, this thread, and email from Craig Green at ZT. Now waiting to hear back from PayPal, ready to provide any additional information. Thank you for the guidance and the support everybody! Hopefully this can be resolved soon, with updates to follow.
 
hang in there it might take them a day or two but most times with the information you have to provide then I don't expect you to have much trouble processing your claim.

And hopefully this incident doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth too long ... the vast majority of the forums are good people ... many that would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it . Sadly just have to chalk this experience up to a bad apple and the community tends to stand together when needed ... and another reminder to ALWAYS use PayPal Goods & Services ... unless you personally know someone and have that trust ... not just because someone has a good feedback rating.

Good luck hope it gets settled quickly.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
hang in there it might take them a day or two but most times with the information you have to provide then I don't expect you to have much trouble processing your claim.

And hopefully this incident doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth too long ... the vast majority of the forums are good people ... many that would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it . Sadly just have to chalk this experience up to a bad apple and the community tends to stand together when needed ... and another reminder to ALWAYS use PayPal Goods & Services ... unless you personally know someone and have that trust ... not just because someone has a good feedback rating.

Good luck hope it gets settled quickly.
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Very much appreciated! And there is an update to this already, the seller has offered to return $115 to me and has offered to have me keep the knife. I feel that this may be satisfactory, as the custom hardware on the knife is worth it to me, the difference split here, plus this counterfeit will be off the market here and off of eBay. What are your opinions on this?
 
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