People who blatantly and fraudulently sell knives as hand made when they are blanks..

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ChrisWilliams said:
4) To answer the question that so many of you have failed to understand my answer to already. Do I use "blanks"? For a portion of my work I use "blanks". I use "blanks" that are machined to specs that we have found to be very useful and capable knife designs.....
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Chris, hello

I'm not a maker, or in the knife business, or anything like that. I'm not even in your country, so this is all very confusing for me. On that, I hope you can clear something up for me.

I do like the look of this knife http://williamsknife.com/store-items/waccamaw/ but having seen the Blade advert I am now very concerned that it may be this $19.95 knife with a $305 handle on it http://www.premiumknifesupply.com/servlet/the-252/S407-Jonah-Large-Fish/Detail.

If that is the case it would be in my interest just to import the blank and have a handle done here at a fraction of the cost. Yours are quite pretty though so that won't cost you a sale if you could also point me to a knife of this style that you make that doesn't involve blanks of this nature.

TIA
 
Kiah said it...it did not have to end up like this. And while it does have a morality lesson, and yes, entertainment value, it is a pretty sad statement on humanity when the same thing happens over and over. A cliche. Maybe somebody could come up with a "handbook for your professional reputation on Bladeforums," that would be required reading when people start deepening their hole. "Sock puppets don't work" "Obfuscation makes people angry" "Don't blame other people" etc.
 
Watch out baldtaco-II, Chris Williams will try to have your post removed due to copyright infringement! :rolleyes:
 
Taocat said:
Kiah said it...it did not have to end up like this. And while it does have a morality lesson, and yes, entertainment value, it is a pretty sad statement on humanity when the same thing happens over and over. A cliche. Maybe somebody could come up with a "handbook for your professional reputation on Bladeforums," that would be required reading when people start deepening their hole. "Sock puppets don't work" "Obfuscation makes people angry" "Don't blame other people" etc.
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Yeah, is it my fault he hung up on me because I caught him at a bad time? Hilarious!
 
baldtaco-II said:
I do like the look of this knife http://williamsknife.com/store-items/waccamaw/ but having seen the Blade advert I am now very concerned that it may be this $19.95 knife with a $305 handle on it http://www.premiumknifesupply.com/servlet/the-252/S407-Jonah-Large-Fish/Detail.
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Those knives have different overall lengths and cutting edge lengths.

Chris William's knife is
Overall Length: 12 inches

Blade Length: 7 inches

and the Premium Knife Supply one is

Specifications:
14" over all length
7 1/2" cutting edge

Additionally, the bottom tang pin hole on CW's knife is round, while the PKS knife has a rectangular hole. So these are probably different knives. Just thought I would point that out. Not trying to defend CW her,e just pointing out that the knives have significant differences.
 
The point is NOT that he uses blanks of any shape or size. The point IS that he refuses to disclose this to potential customers. In my opinion, "handmade from blade to sheath" does not clearly describe his methods.
 
The man is acussed of not doing his own blades, but using blanks, while advertising that he does his own blades. This behaviour is viewed by this community as a serious lack of bussiness ethics.
The man recognizes he uses blanks, but doesnt want to recognize the lack of bussiness ethics. He is clearly aware of the critic, so when he does the recognizing, he does it convolutedly, with many words, trying to act as if he is not recognizing nothing.
Forum members also call this bs.

It's very simple.
 
It is simple, as would be coming completely clean about everything. I will wager he will not see it that way.
 
I just read all 14 pages in one sitting. I guess I am not ADDHD after all.

I am never amazed at how grifters never admit to grifting when caught red handed. It seems to be in the DNA. Not that I am calling anyone on this site a grifter....... I am just shooting blanks.....:confused:
 
cj65 said:
I just read all 14 pages in one sitting. I guess I am not ADDHD after all.

I am never amazed at how grifters never admit to grifting when caught red handed. It seems to be in the DNA. Not that I am calling anyone on this site a grifter....... I am just shooting blanks.....:confused:
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You're shooting blanks?!? Get a handle on yourself, man! :D
 
I really don't mean to be coming back to this thread over and over again, but I'm just going to say this:

Mr. Williams:
Only you and perhaps the people that may be working for you know how exactly how your knives are made. That really isn't even the issue, as we've established over and over and over again. You have AT LEAST admitted to using blanks in a portion of your work, though you still seem quite reluctant to admit approximately how big of a portion that is.

I can't speak for everbody, but I do appreciate that you have changed some of the verbage on your web page and elsewhere which formerly implied (or even explicitly stated) that all of your knives were made from scratch by your own hands.

That said, I think we can all agree that those changes are not exactly enough. I would suggest and encourage you to add verbage which indicates that a portion of your knives are in fact derived from pre-manufactured, machine made blanks. Preach it up however you want to. As previous posters have already suggested, it can in fact be a positive selling point.

I think that these changes alone would be enough to bury this thread, or at least significantly change the overall attitude that is being portrayed against Williams Knife Company.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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Hello everyone here at BF's and Mr. Williams.
I am a full time custom knife maker and have been since 1998. The issue here is honesty in communicating to your customers just how much of your products you actually make.

I have profile blanks cut by water jet to my specs and do all of the bevel grinding and finishing along with handle work myself. They are all my designs and I pick the steel to be used. I also have the heat treatment done by Paul Bos.

I call this Sole authorship and I tell my customers that I have my profiles waterjet cut and the heat treatment done professionally because I feel this give the best quality for my customers and completely explains my process with the least amount of verbage.

It appear that you, Chris are purchasing or having made pre ground & heat treated knife blades and then doing the handle work in house?

There is nothing wrong with that as long as you accurately describe your process.
We knife makers as a group believe that honesty above all of our process is the most important element of our community.

I have read about your children, Hard work, investments along with your legal threats against a few in this thread including the owner of this site. Just to make it clear. All of use full time makers feed our families by our craft. along with part time makers.

All anyone is asking for is clarification on your site etc of what you do and do not do in your knife making process?
Nothing more and nothing less.

Laurence
 
Best Thread Ever!

The interesting thing is that I've watched this exact situation go down on other sites and I'm always amazed that there are a handful of builders/business owners that can take this situation and turn it into a positive instead of watching them totally self destruct. I've watched guys get caught red handed only to have them turn around and create wording around their product that they could defend.

These builders realized that people asking for clarification isn't an attack on their livelihood but rather an opportunity to learn something about advertising and the power of the internet.

Still, most choose the self destruction option and refuse to learn anything.

This one has been epic.
 
Also, it would be best to remember something my mother taught me when I was young. She said, "Son, nobody can get you in trouble. That's simply not possible. If you're doing wrong and you're found out, you have no one to blame but yourself."

Smart lady.

Telling the truth is not an attack. That much should be obvious to anyone.
 
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