Re-examining the steel snobs.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Scott,
If I felt all the newbies were up to the challenge of going to the trouble that YOU do to understand their found steel then I'd be more comfortable with the "found" steel.

Remember that the ones that usually ask the questions also didn't take the time to read the sticky that says "NEWBIES READ THIS GOOD INFORMATION". Someone too quick with their time to read a sticky is most likely not the type to put in the time and effort to understand what they found.

I really don't know why I keep replying. :p
 
Greg Obach said:
is that a cheep shot or what:jerkit:
Click to expand...

It was hardly meant to be any kind of insult and I quite resent your self-descriptive little icon.
I meant it as a venue that has always promoted the use of found steels. Is it not true that the NTs favored recycling found steel and the methods thereof? Would it not then be a good place to ask about unconventional sources?

If you cannot accept that as sincere then I can only reply with a, "Kiss my ass. Get the little chip off your shoulder."
 
I was trying to give you alternatives to just this site, Dustin. This is not the only place about knives on the 'net, and I thought it might be of some help to you in your circumstances. Would you learn more from people who only say, "Use known steels", or perhaps pick up some useful info from people who embrace what I would call "alternate sources"?

Unfortunately, Mr. Obach chose to misinterpret in a way he could be insulted.

My advice stands. Check those sites out.
 
ok.. Fitzo ... i'm a mod on the primal fora..

and i have to say my face went red when i saw your comment... as i took it to be negative.... i was wrong now that i see your words..

i appologize for it..


Greg

thats the danger of typing these things out... and i over reacted... i should have known better.. now i'm a little mad at myself ......
 
Last edited:
everyone back away from their keyboard and take a DEEP breath or the kitten gets it!!!!!
 

Attachments

  • kitten_big_trouble.jpg
    kitten_big_trouble.jpg
    46.9 KB · Views: 41
fitzo said:
I was trying to give you alternatives to just this site, Dustin. This is not the only place about knives on the 'net, and I thought it might be of some help to you in your circumstances. Would you learn more from people who only say, "Use known steels", or perhaps pick up some useful info from people who embrace what I would call "alternate sources"?

Unfortunately, Mr. Obach chose to misinterpret in a way he could be insulted.

My advice stands. Check those sites out.
Click to expand...

I appreciate the links. I'll check them out. I hope that I don't come off as one of the newbies bent on using scrap steel and not taking any advice given here. If I could afford some "real" steel, I would get it. As a guy just starting out though, I'm more worried about learning the 'techniques' associated with knife making rather than what the best steel to use is (although obviously I'd like to know about that too). As I progress, I'm sure I'll indulge in some quality known steel but, as I stand now, with no money and no fancy equipment like you guys have, I will have my fun with "alternative sources". Can the members here not help with that instead of getting so caught up in using the best steel out there? I have no intentions of asking for advice and then shutting it out because I already had the answer made up in my mind. I hope that nobody here thinks of me, or all newbies for that matter, in that way. It's progression. Nobody starts out on top.

With respect,
Dustin
 
Greg, I have tried for months to encourage Tai and any others to teach what they know about their methods. I have no objection to the variety of paths, as long as they do not promote some of the fake science and myth that has proliferated. In fact, I celebrate the variety, and frequently feel resentful that there seems to be a need for a competition to have a "victor". It has all too frequently ruined otherwise excellent threads. I quite admire those who have learned an intimacy with found steel and have accumulated enough knowledge that they can perform a couple simple tests and come pretty close to eaking everything out of that steel that's possible without the technical data I prefer to use.

While there might have been some humor about fenceposts, it was at worst tongue in cheek, because I am not at all certain that someone couldn't direct a person to a particular fencepost that might actually make a fine knife. I surely know only a small fraction of the entirety of knifemaking.

While I personally believe it's easier to start with known steel, I can empathize with the arguments that others have made for different paths. This should be evident in my plea to those capable to teach those who seek that path. If it's not going to happen here, then the "primitive" forums offer a good alternative.

Where some may see competition, I see an opportunity for an expanded skill set.

Take care, and best regards......
 
Last edited:
Sigggghhhhh

Dustin, none of us think less of newbies because you don't have "known" steel and the best tools. Very very very few of us started with any more than you probably have. My first forge was a garbaged out barbeque grill with some black pipe for a tuyere and cat litter/wood ash stuff for forge lining. I forged in charcoal, used a Harbor Frieght $5 hammer (which is still one of my favorites) and a sledge hammer in a bucket of concrete for an anvil. I have forged tons of freaking files, lawnmower blades and whatever else I thought I could forge into a knife. I know where you are because I spent a lot of time there and I truly, truly want you to spend as little time as possible in the lower pits of knifemaking hell.

I know we come off as pretentious and overbearing at times, I AM overbearing at times but the root of it is a desire to make you succeed. I spend my time giving advice and teaching people because I really enjoy seeing someone SUCCESSFULY making a knife. The advice I pass on isn't new, it's nothing I thought of, I'm merely passing on the knowledge that someone thought enough of me to trust that I would pass on. I do wish everyone could have an easy journey along the path but it's not an easy path. I just do my best to make sure you have the right shoes for the journey.

By the way, my teacher is a full time knifemaker and does 90% of his work with hammer and file, blade finishing is done with sandpaper and polishing powders. His really crappy handmade 2x72 is used to run micron belts for handle finishing, I'm pretty sure he uses a $65 bench drill press for drilling holes.
 
Will, I understand where you are coming from and it's very much appreciated that you and people alike want to save me the trouble of spending time in the "lower pits of knifemaking hell". And you will. I'm just not at the point right now where I can do much about it. That doesn't mean I'm not taking in the help and advice and storing it for later. Don't you worry, I will succeed. ;)
 
scottickes said:
Rody,
Bearings are a very good option, however, all bearings are not 52100. I offer myself at your service to assist in identifying bearing steel. Just email me or PM here with the manufacturer and part number, and I'll be glad to let you know the steel chemistry of a bearing. scottickesknives@gmail.com
Click to expand...

Is it ok if I contact you? I have a box of large bearing races, many over 1lb each, an one 3.5lb one(just the outer races) Mostly timkin and koyo.
 
Wow, there really is something about that :jerkit: emoticon isn't there;). I am tempted to find that old thread about the "jerkit" and paste it right in here to make this a 15 pager.

About the fence post thing, I was talking about the metal "T" posts. Guess why I used that imagery? Because when I was a kid I found an old one broken off at around 18 inches and it looked so much like a ready-made short sword that I went ahead and made it into one. Then I grew up and tried a few other things as well, my favorites turned out to be Ketos and Champalloy from Crucible, my customers appreciate those more that they would an old "T" post, but then they are my customers.

"Fence post" may have been a snide description of scrap metals but I have noticed that the steel snobs in this discussion have kept their criticism limited to choices in steel while others have went right for denegrading the people who do not agree with those choices. Why is that?
 
Last edited:
Mike.. after reading your other post... i just feel sick inside.. more like a sinking feeling..

i occasionally have a bad temper and it got the best of me... and i was sincere about the appology ... ...

honestly.. i know BF is a good forum and i have to hit it at least everyday.. there is just too many people that really care about knives on this fora..... even though some new fellas may get the occasional harsh treatment.. ... ( for which i've winced while reading the post ).. i just thought i could contribute abit and maybe make a difference ....

- if anything comes to light ...it is that there are more than a few people feeling sore about the issue... it would be nice to see BF a little safer for all to post.....


go figure.. ... for once i use that crappy smiley and it bites me in the ass...

G
 
With my parents owning a scrap yard I have used plenty over the years.Let me tell you,not all scrap is created equal,using scrap is not for the faint of heart.....

For the maker that wants free steel or low cost steel of sscrap origin,I have 3 words for you.....Local Machine Shop.......These guys have scrap steel all the time,they also have scrap steel of known steel and they know what it is and how you need to heat treat it,talk to the forman or owner most shops will let you have a piece or two from the pile,then you have a known steel that is scrapand when you ask for advice you can say "hey the shop gave me some 1095 or 1084 or what ever they have and then the others here can help out allot better....A spring factory is were I got 1500 pounds of known 5160 as scrap and at scrap prices,rusty scrap yard steel is not always the best choice,but if you use it I have to agree with Kevin...heat to non magnetic quench in oil and then start experimenting as that is how we have to do mystery steel ourselves and cannot tell you what you did wrong,plain and simple......Experiment and practice.....

Now I found this really old broom will it make a good handle for a knife LOLOLOL

Bruce
 
When these threads get this contentious, it becomes all too easy to misinterpret the words written.

Would you folks indulge me with a little exercise? I promise that this is not meant to inflame the situation or belittle anybody but to help clarify where ssome of us are coming from, which seem to be a bit unfathomable to some. Here it is:

I have a piece of steel here. It is a very nice bar that is not too far from knife dimensions. It has a bit of rust pitting on it but I cleaned most of it off and it sparked differently than any of the low carbon steel I have, nice umbrella shaped bursts. I know how to forge and grind it; after all shaping techniques are pretty much irrelevant to the type of steel. How do I properly heat treat it? What is the appropriate soak temp? What quenching medium should work best, air, oil or water? What hardness can I expect, and what tempering temperatures should I use?

Now telling me to test it out myself and is just a cop out since I came here asking for that information from you and I would hope you would be willing to help me, sending me away may be interpreted as disdain for my question or choices.

If you feel the best thing to do is to tell me I should know my steel better myself I will understand, but I would really like you to help me if you can. How about it?
 
Greg, my words were equally not written well enough to prevent you from understanding it other than how I meant. One of those not infrequent occurrences on forums....

I answered tit-for-tat, so I have no morally superior position in this. LOL

Let's just be friends, please, forget about it, and celebrate the diversity in knifemaking. Chalk it up to the frailty of the printed word.

BTW, I enjoy your use of the "fora" plural. It seems the drift in language has removed many of the older Latin-derived plurals...viruses, not viri....spatulas, not spatulae....formulas, not formulae, etc...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top