...I don't see the reason for venom here folks
That has been the mystery to me all along Stephen.
Honestly, are people even reading other posts in this thread or just the first post they disagree with, again and again? I keep seeing the exact same ridiculous statements reposted again and again as if they were uniquely insightful and new. For Pete’s sake it is like having a conversation with somebody who has both fingers in their ears chanting “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, na na na na, I can’t hear you”. It’s honestly rather embarrassing to behold folks.
...I can tell you though that todays lawn mower blades, files, truck springs, and tool steels did not exist 1000 years ago. Nor did belt grinders, electric kilns, Bessemer, etc. etc...
AMEN! I don’t know why I will bother to address this since it will fall on deaf ears, but this quirky stance of what smiths did in the past keeps appearing. Bloomery steel consisting of varying amounts of carbon and only traces of other elements is closer to known steel than random truck springs, put any modern steel with unknown Cr, Mo, or V content in the hands of an ancient smith and he would be as screwed as a modern smith in knowing exactly how to treat it. Why do we recommend 1080 or 1084 instead of O1 to folks with limited equipment? Because it is much closer to those simple steel that were used with ancient tools they work good with a forge.
Modern smiths have the luxury of forgetting that everything changed when alloying beyond carbon was introduced, and too often do.
Let us not forget also that 600 years ago not only was the steel as simple as it could be but you would not have been allowed to even think of making a blade from it until you had spent years of your life becoming familiar with it. There is very little comparison between Ulfberht or Masamune and the guy wanting to make their first blade from a fence post.
Mr. mcdonald your “automaton” and “one man knife factory” comments are baseless portrayals of some of the finest craftsman that I have ever met. Most of the new steel automatons I know get more joy and excitement out of pushing the limits of their work beyond what many will ever know hammering lawnmower blades. Take a walk through the Bladeshow and ask how many of the top guys there feel they are mere machines because they know what their steel is.
The people who promote the use of known steels should avoid cluttering up a thread counseling that path when someone comes in wanting to know how to heat treat some reclaimed mystery steel. Let's just back off for a while and only answer when someone asks about a specific steel with a known identity.
Rather instead, let those promoting the fun of reclaimed steel and denouncing the path of the "automaton"
step up to the plate frequently and repeatedly when newbies ask questions about a file or a saw. Be the ones to guide the new people in how to properly heat treat their mystery steel.
I see a lot of bitching and badgering on a thread like this, but seldom see you take the lead to help those seeking your path.
Instead of just showing up to argue on a thread like this, be the teacher of your way. Step up to the plate. I'll be happy to learn from you.
Indeed I would like to invite everybody to take a look at the number of total posts participants in this thread have made and how it correlates to their approach to this subject, interesting patterns there. Fitzo I know I can always count on your wisdom to clear the fog! Since that is exactly the method I have adhered to for some time. If we are going to get slapped around and denigrated for the effort let's simply allow the scrapyard gurus to handle those questions. This approach is more than just about the conflict, it is about what is even possible, “heat it up, check it with a magnet, dunk it in some oil,” is all that can safely be offered if we don’t know what the steel is. Why or how would we begin trying to give specific heat treat suggestions when we don’t know what we are heat treating? And the icing on the cake is when our advice fails, because we took a stab at what steel it could be, who gets called the dumbass with the bad advice? Those who want to take things in the direction of finer controls and maximized heat treatment can give us a chemistry we can work with and get the same advice without all the confusion. Why should we care more about the outcome of others blades than they do? If knifemaking is really all about the joys of fumbling with scrap iron perhaps it is not up to us to try to change that, we just need to be prepared for the possibility of this becoming the scrapyard forum as our input fades, but then all good things…
Although I am painfully aware of the tactic of allowing the volume of ones voice or the harshness of their tone to give the false appearance of a majority, I think we have seen enough of what we can expect when trying to approach this topic in a reasonable manner, if Mark wants to lock this one down now I am cool with that. :thumbup:
Edited to add- I just stepped back into the forge and had something eating at me that I had to add. I moderate another forum that regularly attracts top metallurgist, I move all scrap steel questions to the adjacent bladesmiths forum because I am not going to waste those professionals time with questions they really can’t answer anyhow. Occasionally these forums get many of the well known makers who will post. I have the pleasure of working side by side with the finest blademakers in the world, and shooting a lot of bull with them on the side, many of them read these forums and never post. Why is it that they may not take the time to regularly post or return if they do? Think about it. You have the opportunity to talk to some of the best professional bladesmiths alive, guys who make blades worth thousands, and you ask them how to make a lawnmower blade into a knife! And then have the nerve to judge them when they decide they have better uses for their time. I don’t think we really grasp the opportunities we are blowing here, but if you can be satisfied with forums only ever reaching certain level then it may be fine.
I've seen both in my shop.
Those that truly want to learn will expend enough effort to read sufficiently to clarify their own desires. They will then seek those who can teach their chosen path. 
