Bad Rip off by KEN LEUNG aka “Shadymethods”

[Triton]

While quoted often here. It is not actually a rule on this forum .
I adhere to it since it is a rule on another forum I participate on and it keeps it simple for me to do so. I also think it is the right thing to do in most cases, since no amount of ?'s are as good as seeing and handling the knife. However it does come at a cost. Shipping isn't free and delays in selling are uncertain. There are at times overly picky(to unreasonable) buyers or those that just want to view the knife then decide if it is right for them on my dime-which I have had a few. I try not to take this stuff too seriously and this is how I have chosen to do it, but can see how others might not choose to do so in certain circumstances.
So while I think it is a good policy I also think it can be easily abused.

No disagreement with any of the above. I certainly agree that the buyer should pay the return shipping.. At that point the seller is just out a little time.

 

[Triton]

To a certain extent I agree that a buyer shouldn't have to prove anything when wanting a to return an item. I and many other folks still go by the etiquette that a deal is not done until both parties are satisfied. For me personally it is not worth the burden of having a fellow member not happy with their purchase from me. I'd take the return. This isn't a business, it is a hobby, and if I have to deal with stress over a few bucks, the joy is lost.

That said, this is far from a situation I would find myself in. The buyer screwed himself and in a way the seller screwed they buyer by taking F&F. Both did wrong here by screwing paypal.

Agree. Never understand why anyone would do a friends and family transaction at this point.

 

[Hta_evo8]

Update
I decided to go ahead and take the pivot out. Then I move the blade just a little bit back and forth, lo and below the detent ball fell right in. But now you can’t put the pivot collar back on because the front scale, the blade, the back scale are all out of alignment.
you can see in pict #2 the lock bar sit lower relative to the rest of the knife, fully closed and locked with detent ball in hole in blade. now if you pressed on the lock bar and try to pull the blade out IT WILL NOT come out
Compare that to Pict #1 where there’s no detent, you can press it with whatever might you possess and the blade can be EASILY PULLED out of the handle.

Pict#1 was taken in early PM with sunlight behind me
Pict#2 was just taken just now at 10 pm twith overhead light
Will try to get some more Picts later

 

[Popsickle]

View attachment 885435 View attachment 885436 Update
I decided to go ahead and take the pivot out. Then I move the blade just a little bit back and forth, lo and below the detent ball fell right in. But now you can’t put the pivot collar back on because the front scale, the blade, the back scale are all out of alignment. Now you can see in pict #2 the lock bar sit lower relative to the rest of the knife, fully closed and locked with detent ball in hole in blade.
Pict#1 was taken in early PM with sunlight behind me
Pict#2 was just taken just now at 10 pm twith overhead light
Will try to get some more Picts later

Sounds like this is a warranty issue.

 

[knarfeng]

Once you take the knife apart, it's yours.

 

[AdamFuzzyballs]

Maybe its just me but I don't understand this whole "seller is socially obligated to accept a return" thing. If I post honest pictures and give the best description I can, I'm probably not gonna accept a return unless you show me that I misrepresented the item. I'm not a dang WALMART, if you buy and you decide you're unhappy then it's no longer my concern.
There's an inherent risk with online purchases- just look at how many returns Amazon has to process. No matter how well you describe an item in pictures and text, there's always a chance that it won't perfectly represent the item. To be honest, if you buy online that's the risk you are choosing to take.
And of course, choosing to scam PayPal is a little dubious if you're a seller, but just dumb if you're the buyer.

 

[craytab]

Once you take the knife apart, it's yours.

Yes it is. OP has to deal with this on his own now (send it to maker, fix it himself, have someone else take a look, or sell it at a loss with full disclosure). Seller is off the hook for a return, but not for accepting F&F and not taking the return in the first place. We can all make our own judgments on those two things and choose to how to deal with the seller in the future accordingly.

 

[Gastonknife]

Yes it is. OP has to deal with this on his own now (send it to maker, fix it himself, have someone else take a look, or sell it at a loss with full disclosure). Seller is off the hook for a return, but not for accepting F&F and not taking the return in the first place. We can all make our own judgments on those two things and choose to how to deal with the seller in the future accordingly.

Very well put. Yup, you take it apart and you own it.

Sounds like this is a warranty issue.

Yes, it does - but one that the seller should have either taken care of or disclosed in the sales thread, not passed on to an unknowing buyer.

 

[sharp_edge]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I know neither party. But based on the latest pictures that the buyer posted and if these pictures are a genuine representation of the knife before and after, the knife itself is obviously defected. I just cannot imagine how @ShadyMethod, as a super active seller on this site, could miss something serious like that.

 

[RayseM]

Maybe its just me but I don't understand this whole "seller is socially obligated to accept a return" thing. If I post honest pictures and give the best description I can, I'm probably not gonna accept a return unless you show me that I misrepresented the item. I'm not a dang WALMART, if you buy and you decide you're unhappy then it's no longer my concern.
There's an inherent risk with online purchases- just look at how many returns Amazon has to process. No matter how well you describe an item in pictures and text, there's always a chance that it won't perfectly represent the item. To be honest, if you buy online that's the risk you are choosing to take.
And of course, choosing to scam PayPal is a little dubious if you're a seller, but just dumb if you're the buyer.

It's NOT JUST YOU - I agree completely. The payment issue, however, is another rabbit hole altogether. I won't even venture a guess as to how to settle this particular issue .

Ray

 

[Hta_evo8]

I don't have a dog in this fight as I know neither party. But based on the latest pictures that the buyer posted and if these pictures are a genuine representation of the knife before and after, the knife itself is obviously defected. I just cannot imagine how @ShadyMethod, as a super active seller on this site, could miss something serious like that.

I absolutely believe it is 100% intentional, there's just no way to miss something like this especially for someone who's good enough to make profit out of doing this.
You only have to open and close it one time, to realize its not functioning properly. Read the excerpt from his email, he's 100% familiar with the functioning of this knife
People are mostly good, most of he time, but we all have our own little dark side dark moment. This, friends, is one of those dark moment[/QUOTE]

 

[Popsickle]

Once you take the knife apart, it's yours.

I agree, but he didn’t totally break the knife down. He simply removed the pivot to show the defect. While I agree it’s a warranty issue that should have been addressed when the refund was requested..... I simply don’t believe that @ShadyMethods had any ill intent here. The refund should have been immediately granted. We now have proof of the OPs issue and that he reached out immediately. Waiting 2 months to post in the GBU shows he had patience, and I commend him for not having a knee jerk reaction. Might want to go a little lighter on the title next time though lol.

Lesson here is to NEVER pay F&F unless it’s truly friends or family. You lose any and all protection if you do.

 

[Lapedog]

And there has to be a reason for the return. So far the OP can't prove that. Tire kickers aren't welcome here. And if he really cared about protecting himself from getting a bad example he would have paid with goods and services.

When honorable members make a mistake in buying a knife they no longer want, they take the loss and resell.

Not to mention OP says he took the pivot out and thus partially disassembled the knife. I always thought policy was if you donthat sort of thing the knife is yours.

 

[Steven65]

So at this point there can no longer be a resolution between the buyer and seller.
Whatever has transpired in the past the buyer has dis-assembled the knife and therefore he has voided his return/refund claim. The knife is now his.

What we have learned from this train wreck is that Paypal F&F is a shocking idea. And if you have a problem with a purchase, deal with it immediately and clearly.

 

[Popsickle]

So at this point there can no longer be a resolution between the buyer and seller.
Whatever has transpired in the past the buyer has dis-assembled the knife and therefore he has voided his return/refund claim. The knife is now his.

What we have learned from this train wreck is that Paypal F&F is a shocking idea. And if you have a problem with a purchase, deal with it immediately and clearly.

I agree disassembly means it’s yours. The part I’m having an issue with is that the buyer did in fact request said refund within days, and it was not granted. If the refund would have happened..... it never would have reached the point of GBU and pivot removal. People asked for proof and he did the best to show it. Interested to see where it goes from here.

 

[Thomas Linton]

What a mess. But an observation: The most common form of "proof" is testimony - words.

 

[Gastonknife]

I think it would be appropriate for shady to comment in the thread at this time.

 

[stonesell]

While these guys should have kept it “in house” and solved it from the get go, the op did open up a very controversial aspect of return policies, and the seller did fail to properly negotiate a proper remedy, within the first 24 hours.
If it were me, I would try everything to solve the deal privately. Arriving at GBU is interesting for us commentators, but I would never want to inadvertently be the subject of a public court of opinion.
I do like to learn about all of the member’s opinions, so this is still a good learning experience and an interesting part of the bladeforums.

 

[BellaBlades]

View attachment 885435 View attachment 885436 Update
I decided to go ahead and take the pivot out. Then I move the blade just a little bit back and forth, lo and below the detent ball fell right in. But now you can’t put the pivot collar back on because the front scale, the blade, the back scale are all out of alignment.
you can see in pict #2 the lock bar sit lower relative to the rest of the knife, fully closed and locked with detent ball in hole in blade. now if you pressed on the lock bar and try to pull the blade out IT WILL NOT come out
Compare that to Pict #1 where there’s no detent, you can press it with whatever might you possess and the blade can be EASILY PULLED out of the handle.

Pict#1 was taken in early PM with sunlight behind me
Pict#2 was just taken just now at 10 pm twith overhead light
Will try to get some more Picts later

I think I can repair it without issue.

If you want me to take a look and you cover shipping both ways. I will do it for free.

Just shoot me a PM. While I am not taking orders any more or doing knife work. I am still plenty capable and like to help people out once in a while.

 

[Lapedog]

“ TLE Sharp” or moderator would you be willing to inspect the knife
I’ll include cash to cover shipment back. Send me your address if one of you would like to help out
I don’t think video will be any more convincing than the picts

For the record there are plenty of knives that have weak detents and stiff action. Not all knives were built with the action of opening and closing the knife in mind. This is especially present on older folders. Back then no one expected their manual knife to flick open smoothly upon breaking the detent.

Teflon washers seem to often be stiff and just becaue there are knives with them that are very smooth doesn’t mean they will all be. A knife could be quite stiff in its action and still be 100% in spec.