Bad Rip off by KEN LEUNG aka “Shadymethods”

[Popsickle]

For the record there are plenty of knives that have weak detents and stiff action. Not all knives were built with the action of opening and closing the knife in mind. This is especially present on older folders. Back then no one expected their manual knife to flick open smoothly upon breaking the detent.

Teflon washers seem to often be stiff and just becaue there are knives with them that are very smooth doesn’t mean they will all be. A knife could be quite stiff in its action and still be 100% in spec.

I think he issue here is he detent isn’t seated properly.

 

[Hta_evo8]

I think I can repair it without issue.

If you want me to take a look and you cover shipping both ways. I will do it for free.

Just shoot me a PM. While I am not taking orders any more or doing knife work. I am still plenty capable and like to help people out once in a while.

Thank you, I’ll probably take you up on that.
Though I’d like to pay you for your service.

 

[Vaporstang]

I think I can repair it without issue.

If you want me to take a look and you cover shipping both ways. I will do it for free.

Just shoot me a PM. While I am not taking orders any more or doing knife work. I am still plenty capable and like to help people out once in a while.

Very good of you!

 

[BellaBlades]

Thank you, I’ll probably take you up on that.
Though I’d like to pay you for your service.

It's not a problem. Send me a PM. If your stuck with the knife at this point I will diagnose it within 48 hours of arrival and have it shipped back within a week. No problem. It's kind of fun really.

 

[TW-Knife]

Not to add on to my 1st post but I believe from my dealings with ShadyMethods that it was intentional and there was a profitable intent in selling this knife without full disclosure.

If you are willing to sell a knife listed as 'factory custom' that you know is not, then I wouldn't put this type of sale beyond the scope of possibility for their integrity.

 

[WValtakis]

Not to add on to my 1st post but I believe from my dealings with ShadyMethods that it was intentional and there was a profitable intent in selling this knife without full disclosure.

If you are willing to sell a knife listed as 'factory custom' that you know is not, then I wouldn't put this type of sale beyond the scope of possibility for their integrity.

Could you elaborate? I see you've left him positive feedback for a trade, but you never posted in the deal thread linked in the feedback so I have no idea what you are referring to?

Edit- is it the CKF Muscle in this thread, that you didn't leave negative feedback for...so I'm even more confused?
~Chip

 

[Triton]

Maybe its just me but I don't understand this whole "seller is socially obligated to accept a return" thing. If I post honest pictures and give the best description I can, I'm probably not gonna accept a return unless you show me that I misrepresented the item. I'm not a dang WALMART, if you buy and you decide you're unhappy then it's no longer my concern.
There's an inherent risk with online purchases- just look at how many returns Amazon has to process. No matter how well you describe an item in pictures and text, there's always a chance that it won't perfectly represent the item. To be honest, if you buy online that's the risk you are choosing to take.
And of course, choosing to scam PayPal is a little dubious if you're a seller, but just dumb if you're the buyer.

Disagree. Honest pictures and descriptions to you may be completely inadequate for the buyer. Who gets to decide if they were adequate? You? Why not the buyer? That's why BOTH parties should be satisfied. I suppose that if you put up a disclaimer that you will not accept a return unless you feel like it then that might be at least be up front. If your attitude is basically that the buyer assumes all risk when dealing with you I wonder how fast your sales will be. I know I would never purchase from such a seller.

 

[ShadyMethods]

Before we start labeling me as some kind of monster, or someone who had a "little dark side dark moment" as Hta_evo8 puts it, I never got any proof from him. I was very fair with him in all our messages. I told him exactly what I needed from him to justify a return. I got back to him within about a day of each of his messages. It wasn't ideal. I'll admit that but I was very busy at the time. He never got back to me with photos. So to say that this was "100% intentional" was 100% a lie. Just more of his blatant over-exaggeration that we've been seeing a lot of. I kept an eye on that email chain the entire day after I sent my last message. I even pinned it to the top of my inbox. After about 2 weeks when it looked like he wasn't going to reply, I unpinned it. In my last message to him, I was still trying to see if there was an issue. I'll even post a photo taken of my screen not too long ago:

To address some of the other concerns, yes I carried the knife and listed it as "near mint." I still stand by that. I live in a big city and I often don't need to use my carry knife. I'm not a hard user either. I also try to take good care of my stuff so there's nothing else in that pocket. On a normal day, I'm wearing a t-shirt that's long enough to cover the clip so even the clip is generally in good shape. I didn't list it as brand new for a reason. I also said it had a "smooth action." Again, I stand by that. There was no grittiness, no burrs on the detent track, nothing like that. Not everything need to be a Norseman or Sebenza to be called smooth. The other thing was I said I had issues with a detent ball falling out of one of my other DUBs. With all due respect, please don't twist my words or take them the wrong way. That does not mean the maker has an issue with his detent. That was another issue entirely. I have 4 other Phantom Steelworks, all working perfectly. I've had a detent ball fall out on another knife not made by Phantom Steelworks and I'm sure plenty of other people have too. I mentioned it to share my experience with the maker. I know he's behind on his orders but I can honestly say my experience with him was very positive. That's it. I'm not speaking for him but I need to be honest. Everything I've said so far, I stand behind and I'm not afraid to say that.

Next, I'll say that if the knife is in proper adjustment, the blade will not just fall out. I did not adjust it. I didn't have to since it was like that when I got it. I don't take tools to my knives unless I have to. I also check every knife that I get because I buy them with an interest to carry and use them normally. I need to be sure they're safe for me to use. This hobby is honestly a huge money sink for me. I try to break even but it normally doesn't happen that way. I have so much lying around in sharpened steel that I'd scare my neighbor into moving if I ever showed them all of it. I also have a normal job so I don't need to sell knives for income. You'll never find me hunched over a computer, refreshing a page for half a day to score a ZT LE. There are better ways for me to use that time, especially if I intend to use that time to make money.

Again, I handled another Skinwalker that felt about the same as this one. It's an older model from Chris and it isn't a flipper. I've had other knives with stiff actions and weak detents. Might not be the most popular but it's a perfectly valid way to build a knife. Maybe Chris didn't absolutely perfect his detent at the time but the knife that I put in the box addressed to Boremy Ly (our Hta_evo8) was functional and safe to carry. And, that was the last time I saw the knife or heard from him until 6 weeks later when this thread was made and he posted photos here. I try to be fair with everyone I deal with and I hope asking for a bit of proof isn't out of line.

TW-Knife, if you had an issue with that CKF, why didn't you let me know? CKF factory customize some of their knives so when the guy I got it from said it was done by them, I didn't doubt it. If you showed that I had mis-represented that knife, I would have taken it back. You even left positive feedback. This thread is the first time you mentioned anything about it.

 

[TW-Knife]

Could you elaborate? I see you've left him positive feedback for a trade, but you never posted in the deal thread linked in the feedback so I have no idea what you are referring to?

Edit- is it the CKF Muscle in this thread, that you didn't leave negative feedback for...so I'm even more confused?
~Chip

I posted in the thread? For mail sent and payment sent, but that's it. Didn't know until I sold the knife well after the initial transaction here and I had already left positive feedback. Then I was informed that the person who sold it, listed it as anodized by someone at home, not the factory. The buyer from me and I just let it go even after the revelation. Another reason to buy what I want new from dealers or do without. I just wanted to add my experience with the seller.

 

[Hkwinger]

Shady, are you a dealer?

I feel that dealers should have some sort of return policy, assuming the knife has not been taken apart or modified.

 

[ShadyMethods]

I'm just a guy with a Pelican case and a steel addiction. I'd be a terrible dealer since I keep a good portion of what I buy.

 

[Sergeua]

My prediction is BellaBlades confirming the issue and hopefully OP giving seller negative feedback for the deal that did happen, which is going to be well deserved in my opinion.

 

[Thomas Linton]

...
And of course, choosing to scam PayPal is a little dubious if you're a seller, but just dumb if you're the buyer.

With respect, buying goods F&F is not just dumb. It is dishonest. THE BUYER is trying to beat PayPal out of the fee that he would, otherwise, have to pay.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

Hadn't been on to read much recently ... just saw this thread ... wow ... can it become a sticky as "WHAT NOT TO DO" ... it looks like nearly everything was just a mess from to go ...

good luck with this one ...

 

[Gastonknife]

The seller is actually the one who gets charged the PP fee, not the buyer. However, I think I get your point overall.

In looking, it seems that shady has posted almost exclusively in the for sale area. Continually listing a large number of knives, many of which are high end folders. This is just my opinion, but somebody that buys and sells the knives he does, absolutely would have a good knowledge of knives. Surely one would notice if the detent was not working properly. It appears that it does not on this folder. Why would a maker put a detent on a knife; if it was not really intended to be utilized? Folding knives made for pocket carry, don't rely on the bearing/pin tension to not open up on you. Don't think that the explanation of "that's how it's designed" holds much water. Having carried and used it - as stated - would have made that evidently clear that there was a problem. The buyer pointed it out as soon as received. Guess we all can figure out on our own what is happening here.

 

[Gastonknife]

Shady quote:
"Again, I handled another Skinwalker that felt about the same as this one. It's an older model from Chris and it isn't a flipper. I've had other knives with stiff actions and weak detents. Might not be the most popular but it's a perfectly valid way to build a knife. Maybe Chris didn't absolutely perfect his detent at the time but the knife that I put in the box addressed to Boremy Ly (our Hta_evo8) was functional and safe to carry. And, that was the last time I saw the knife or heard from him until 6 weeks later when this thread was made and he posted photos here. I try to be fair with everyone I deal with and I hope asking for a bit of proof isn't out of line"



Still trying to understand how a Stiff action is considered smooth and normal. No detent, but safe and functional? You had to notice that the detent was bad/weak. That should have been noted in the sales thread.
You said he should have asked questions. What is he supposed to do? Ask you whether a $600 knife you describe as near mint has a faulty detent? Really.
To close, he didn't wait 6 weeks. He told you immediately after he got it. I am not trying to attack the seller or anything, he may normally be a good guy; but this situation is dubious and seller should have refunded the buyer. How hard would that have been. I have no doubt that the seller knew or should have known something was not right with this knife.

 

[ShadyMethods]

Alright, I don't know what you have against me but I'm doing my absolute best here to show my side of things. You have questioned everything from my intent to the condition of the knife, which was never even up for debate. I took the time to explain it anyways. Yes, I took an F&F payment but again, it was his choice to pay that way. I never weaseled him into it and I say that I cover PayPal fees at the top of all my threads. You can check for yourself. He sent me an offer that was over $150 off my list price and I still decided to work with him. Other people would have ignored him and maybe I should have done the same.

The knife has a light detent and it is safe and functional. It might not be what you prefer but that doesn't mean it's defective. I have a CQC-15 I've been carrying on and off for over a year now. Light detent, stiffer action, works great. I can shake the knife out if I want to but it's never opened in my pocket. Had some other customs that were much the same way. Not everything needs to open instantly with a snap to be considered functional. And, not too long ago that would have been considered the norm.

To close, he did wait 6 weeks. If you look at the photo I posted of my screen, it showed the last message I sent him and I never got a reply. The date on that last one: 2/26/18 at 10:15 PM. When this thread was started: 4/8/18. Some people wouldn't have asked for a reason. That's a fine way for them to go about things, but even they say some people take advantage of it. Am I wrong to try and be fair to both sides? I just want my deals to be honest and fair, both to the buyer and to the seller. That's how I buy, that's how I sell. You can tell from my feedback that it's worked so far. I don't want to be taken advantage of and I'm sure you don't either. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I've given other refunds in the past, more than a few times actually. But, only when I screwed up. If I make a mistake, I own up to it and I pay for it.

I plainly laid out what I needed from him. I only asked for a few photos. I never got them and he stopped responding. What was I supposed to do at that point? Then 41 days later, he starts saying I ripped him off. So to me:

1. For the sake of fairness, I ask him for proof of his claim
2. I never get that proof and he stops responding altogether
3. After he's had the knife for 6 weeks, I see a GBU thread

Now, I'm sure you're going to pick apart what I said. I have nothing against you but, you can bet I'll be back to set the record straight.

 

[bonky]

Alright, I don't know what you have against me but I'm doing my absolute best here to show my side of things. You have questioned everything from my intent to the condition of the knife, which was never even up for debate. I took the time to explain it anyways. Yes, I took an F&F payment but again, it was his choice to pay that way. I never weaseled him into it and I say that I cover PayPal fees at the top of all my threads. You can check for yourself. He sent me an offer that was over $150 off my list price and I still decided to work with him. Other people would have ignored him and maybe I should have done the same.

The knife has a light detent and it is safe and functional. It might not be what you prefer but that doesn't mean it's defective. I have a CQC-15 I've been carrying on and off for over a year now. Light detent, stiffer action, works great. I can shake the knife out if I want to but it's never opened in my pocket. Had some other customs that were much the same way. Not everything needs to open instantly with a snap to be considered functional. And, not too long ago that would have been considered the norm.

To close, he did wait 6 weeks. If you look at the photo I posted of my screen, it showed the last message I sent him and I never got a reply. The date on that last one: 2/26/18 at 10:15 PM. When this thread was started: 4/8/18. Some people wouldn't have asked for a reason. That's a fine way for them to go about things, but even they say some people take advantage of it. Am I wrong to try and be fair to both sides? I just want my deals to be honest and fair, both to the buyer and to the seller. That's how I buy, that's how I sell. You can tell from my feedback that it's worked so far. I don't want to be taken advantage of and I'm sure you don't either. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I've given other refunds in the past, more than a few times actually. But, only when I screwed up. If I make a mistake, I own up to it and I pay for it.

I plainly laid out what I needed from him. I only asked for a few photos. I never got them and he stopped responding. What was I supposed to do at that point? Then 41 days later, he starts saying I ripped him off. So to me:

1. For the sake of fairness, I ask him for proof of his claim
2. I never get that proof and he stops responding altogether
3. After he's had the knife for 6 weeks, I see a GBU thread

Now, I'm sure you're going to pick apart what I said. I have nothing against you but, you can bet I'll be back to set the record straight.

Here's the problem, short and sweet. He contacted you immediately after the sale describing his problem. The deal should have been reversed then and there. Period.

Now we see in his photos why he complained, and justifiably so. If you have to remove the pivot in order to engage the detent it is Not "safe". I have no skin in this, but I hope that one sale was worth it for you, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who sees this transaction as questionable at best.

 

[Ajack60]

ShadyMethods , the lowball offer should have been a big red flag. I absolutely understand your view, however, what you and I deem as a no issue knife, someone else will see faults and start yelling foul. I had a guy file a PayPal claim and never told me about it. I found out from PayPal when my account was frozen. It was all over a sheath that didn't fit right. As you know you have to take the bad with the good and sometimes wanting to make a point isn't worth the headache. I have a notepad beside my computer. As I read these types of threads, I jot down names that have been involved in these threads. Down the road it pays off.

 

[bonky]

ShadyMethods , the lowball offer should have been a big red flag. I absolutely understand your view, however, what you and I deem as a no issue knife, someone else will see faults and start yelling foul. I had a guy file a PayPal claim and never told me about it. I found out from PayPal when my account was frozen. It was all over a sheath that didn't fit right. As you know you have to take the bad with the good and sometimes wanting to make a point isn't worth the headache. I have a notepad beside my computer. As I read these types of threads, I jot down names that have been involved in these threads. Down the road it pays off.

And there's the problem .


Review the rules.



If one side isn't satisfied then the trade is reversed How hard is that, really?

Without piling on, at best, the seller knew there was an issue that probably wouldn't get noticed, and at worst he planned on passing his problem down the line to a manufacturer who has issues (at best) .

Either way. He's made my "do not deal with" list. He's certainly not front porch material.