Shirogorov neon pivot - Deal Problem

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KM013070 said:
I don't know why so many are focusing on the marks I caused on the scale. That is totally on me, but done trying to correct the actual problem. As far as "shady", that would be true if I said nothing and just flipped it so it became someone else's issue. Once I thought I would not be able to correct it I responded to all emails/texts that it had a seized pivot and after no one was willing to purchase as is, removed the item from sale and contacted PP. So I question, if this a known trait of Shiro, why was nobody willing to purchase it and look to fix it? Because nobody wants to buy a knife for this cost with an issue. Especially when this maker has no repair facility in the states. I have bought and sold many knives through BF all with positive outcomes. I'm thankful for BF's existence as most of what I've bought has been because of it. I've purchased items that I sent to the makers to bring back to new. My CR's are perfect examples. But a significant issue with an offshore maker's product is not a responsibility I should assume. I could easily believe the seller sold it because of this and hoped I'd never need to take it apart. I try to disagree because of the preowned items I've purchased in the past without any issues. If the seller was a business then I'm sure nobody would be commenting. But because he's an individual, there's a lot of time being spent. I truly feel sorry about how this is unfolding but in the end I bought a 575$ knife that can't be taken apart with reasonable methods. This is not an easy event for either me or the seller. If Shiro had a outlet for repairs in the states I would have done the same thing I did with my CR's. But they don't and Recon1 won't accept anything they didn't sell. So my only recourse is with the seller. I'm amazed some have said the things they have and that I should accept what they wouldn't accept themselves. I have never sold anything through BF that wasn't functionally perfect. This is also the first time I've bought something not functionally fine through BF.
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Your lack of awareness and knowledge regarding warranty issues, dos and don'ts is really not the seller's fault! There are a lot of us on here who could afford Shiros and would love to own one for precisely for the reasons that we may have to return the knife back to Russia (unless proven purchase from Recon1 in Los Angeles) and our own lack of expertise in taking apart intricate knives (I'm talking about myself) we refrain from buying Shiros perhaps in addition to the desire to buy American Made, first and foremost.

Learn to search the entire BFC before you make an impulse decision and even Google search ought to lead to Blade Forums. I present just one such case from the very recent past:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-reason-i-quit-buying-shirogorov-off-the-exchange.1528439/

Lastly, trying to fall on a positive feedback cushion while a good start is neither here not there! you only have 4 feedback with less than 50 posts in about 3 years of membership. While true that high post count or high feedback count do not represent integrity by any means, they do show a level of engagement in the Community. Interesting to note that neither you or the seller had exchanged positive feedback on the said transaction!
 
KM013070 said:
I don't know why so many are focusing on the marks I caused on the scale. That is totally on me, but done trying to correct the actual problem. As far as "shady", that would be true if I said nothing and just flipped it so it became someone else's issue. Once I thought I would not be able to correct it I responded to all emails/texts that it had a seized pivot and after no one was willing to purchase as is, removed the item from sale and contacted PP. So I question, if this a known trait of Shiro, why was nobody willing to purchase it and look to fix it? Because nobody wants to buy a knife for this cost with an issue. Especially when this maker has no repair facility in the states. I have bought and sold many knives through BF all with positive outcomes. I'm thankful for BF's existence as most of what I've bought has been because of it. I've purchased items that I sent to the makers to bring back to new. My CR's are perfect examples. But a significant issue with an offshore maker's product is not a responsibility I should assume. I could easily believe the seller sold it because of this and hoped I'd never need to take it apart. I try to disagree because of the preowned items I've purchased in the past without any issues. If the seller was a business then I'm sure nobody would be commenting. But because he's an individual, there's a lot of time being spent. I truly feel sorry about how this is unfolding but in the end I bought a 575$ knife that can't be taken apart with reasonable methods. This is not an easy event for either me or the seller. If Shiro had a outlet for repairs in the states I would have done the same thing I did with my CR's. But they don't and Recon1 won't accept anything they didn't sell. So my only recourse is with the seller. I'm amazed some have said the things they have and that I should accept what they wouldn't accept themselves. I have never sold anything through BF that wasn't functionally perfect. This is also the first time I've bought something not functionally fine through BF.
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So, according to this line of logic, the seller should have disassembled his knife to find out if it was "functioning perfectly"? Ideally, there's not a whole lot of reason to ever take a knife apart, unless something has gone horribly wrong. It seems to me that the knife is working fine, however you ran across problems when you tried to disassemble it. You disassembled it strictly for vanity purposes, damaged the goods and now are trying to make the seller responsible for your ineptitude. You had a multitude of courses open to you, but this is the one you chose. It's not like there was a catistrophic failure of the knife that was the result of a manufacturing defect. We're talking friggin' Loctite and a total lack of patience. If I really felt a need to take a knife apart (a lanyard would not be one) and I had issues with the pivot - after following all the tips and tricks - I'd have contacted somebody who could take it apart.

Whether or not you've bought items in the past with no issues is a moot point. Trying to compare a Shiro to a CR is comparing apples to artichokes. This is not a significant issue, and you should not be buying any knives that aren't built and warrantied here. And I'm talking about the ones that you won't void the warranty by trying to take apart.
 
Victorian Squid said:
I think it's obvious this is the correct place to post. From what I saw of your listing, only one person contacted you regarding the purchase of this knife - you seem rather quick to panic.

Spinning pivots are common in knives in general, and known in Shiros. Pretty much every Russian knife I have needs some thread lock so the blade doesn't go off center after a dozen flips. What I'm not understanding is why you would need to take a knife apart for a lanyard (or are you buying them made already?) and then use a screwdriver. There's takedown videos available on youtube as well as a plethora of tips and tricks to overcome thread lock and free-spinning pivots. Going to PP however is something I'm not understanding in the least. You expect somebody to eat the cost of something that's common knowledge? There's reasons taking a knife apart voids warranties for many makers - and you're why.

Did you try posting threads on how to take care of this and maybe, I don't know - wait a couple of days and do some research? I could give you several suggestions here right now (like stay the hell away from screwdrivers), as could those even more knowledgeable than myself. This place is full of brilliant people and builders who could walk you through it if you'd just ask.

Coming here and fessing up is the first step in setting things right.

The knife community is awesome in general. I don't come here often, but do plan to sell off a lot of my knives in the coming weeks. Guys like you make me a bit hesitant - I'm sure I'll start with my IG group first. I'll leave it to S sliceofknife410 to sort this out - but I feel for him. You fed him to the Jackals for no particular reason other than a complete lack of patience.
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The lanyard hole is partially hidden. The videos I've seen say dissassembly is required to install a lanyard. And I did not use a generic screwdriver as videos say not to. I borrowed my friends crazy 300$ Shiro tool. I use the Hinderer tool for my XM's, and the Wiha hex keys on my CR's. I don't take chances. I've spent a lot of time watching videos that's why the delay in contacting the seller. And I'm willing to bet that most of the posted videos of heating, boiling, and even dremelling a notch would void any warranty more than simply taking it apart. The only thing I'm guilty of is not knowing that a spinning pivot on a Shiro can supposedly happen without loctite being added. Has anybody considered the seller used Loctite, maybe the wrong strength? I don't know. As far as running to PP, that was after talking to the seller. No concession was made, a link was given that doesn't apply to this model, and was told that I should accept it because of his selling price. Only after a PP case was filed did he offer to take it back less the cost of the marks and a new pivot. So involving PP was the only way anything real happened. looking back, I'm sorry I dismissed that offer so quickly and didn't work out a better price. But I was upset with the issue and the initial responses. I'd love to respond to everybody's comments to try and prove I'm not lobster bait but I just don't have the time. Maybe if the seller is still willing to talk I'll shoot him an email.
 
KM013070 said:
I don't know why so many are focusing on the marks I caused on the scale. That is totally on me, but done trying to correct the actual problem. As far as "shady", that would be true if I said nothing and just flipped it so it became someone else's issue. Once I thought I would not be able to correct it I responded to all emails/texts that it had a seized pivot and after no one was willing to purchase as is, removed the item from sale and contacted PP. So I question, if this a known trait of Shiro, why was nobody willing to purchase it and look to fix it? Because nobody wants to buy a knife for this cost with an issue. Especially when this maker has no repair facility in the states. I have bought and sold many knives through BF all with positive outcomes. I'm thankful for BF's existence as most of what I've bought has been because of it. I've purchased items that I sent to the makers to bring back to new. My CR's are perfect examples. But a significant issue with an offshore maker's product is not a responsibility I should assume. I could easily believe the seller sold it because of this and hoped I'd never need to take it apart. I try to disagree because of the preowned items I've purchased in the past without any issues. If the seller was a business then I'm sure nobody would be commenting. But because he's an individual, there's a lot of time being spent. I truly feel sorry about how this is unfolding but in the end I bought a 575$ knife that can't be taken apart with reasonable methods. This is not an easy event for either me or the seller. If Shiro had a outlet for repairs in the states I would have done the same thing I did with my CR's. But they don't and Recon1 won't accept anything they didn't sell. So my only recourse is with the seller. I'm amazed some have said the things they have and that I should accept what they wouldn't accept themselves. I have never sold anything through BF that wasn't functionally perfect. This is also the first time I've bought something not functionally fine through BF.
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If you remain here after this no one should deal with you. Logic is flawed. If an item isn't right, send it back. Do not take it apart. This is your knife now. Do the right thing and drop the claim. Own your mistake.
 
Casinostocks said:
Your lack of awareness and knowledge regarding warranty issues, dos and don'ts is really not the seller's fault! There are a lot of us on here who could afford Shiros and would love to own one for precisely for the reasons that we may have to return the knife back to Russia (unless proven purchase from Recon1 in Los Angeles) and our own lack of expertise in taking apart intricate knives (I'm talking about myself) we refrain from buying Shiros perhaps in addition to the desire to buy American Made, first and foremost.

Learn to search the entire BFC before you make an impulse decision and even Google search ought to lead to Blade Forums. I present just one such case from the very recent past:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/the-reason-i-quit-buying-shirogorov-off-the-exchange.1528439/

Lastly, trying to fall on a positive feedback cushion while a good start is neither here not there! you only have 4 feedback with less than 50 posts in about 3 years of membership. While true that high post count or high feedback count do not represent integrity by any means, they do show a level of engagement in the Community. Interesting to note that neither you or the seller had exchanged positive feedback on the said transaction!
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Very valid points. I don't mind the criticism either. Sometime a brutal slap in the face is good. I do have far more transactions though than feedbacks but I understand that's not the be all end all.
 
craytab said:
If you remain here after this no one should deal with you. Logic is flawed. If an item isn't right, send it back. Do not take it apart. This is your knife now. Do the right thing and drop the claim. Own your mistake.
Click to expand...

Exactly. If not what you expected, you send back BEFORE you botch it up. And botch it up you did. It is worth less than before you touched it. Not fair to the seller.
 
Victorian Squid said:
So, according to this line of logic, the seller should have disassembled his knife to find out if it was "functioning perfectly"? Ideally, there's not a whole lot of reason to ever take a knife apart, unless something has gone horribly wrong. It seems to me that the knife is working fine, however you ran across problems when you tried to disassemble it. You disassembled it strictly for vanity purposes, damaged the goods and now are trying to make the seller responsible for your ineptitude. You had a multitude of courses open to you, but this is the one you chose. It's not like there was a catistrophic failure of the knife that was the result of a manufacturing defect. We're talking friggin' Loctite and a total lack of patience. If I really felt a need to take a knife apart (a lanyard would not be one) and I had issues with the pivot - after following all the tips and tricks - I'd have contacted somebody who could take it apart.

Whether or not you've bought items in the past with no issues is a moot point. Trying to compare a Shiro to a CR is comparing apples to artichokes. This is not a significant issue, and you should not be buying any knives that aren't built and warrantied here. And I'm talking about the ones that you won't void the warranty by trying to take apart.
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More good comments. I just want to mention though that I never got it apart. And I'm not looking for recourse because I marked it. That can happen by just putting it into the pocket. I don't agree though about not taking down a knife. At the very least it's nice to clean and see design choices. I'd say it's part of the hobby.
 
SVTFreak said:
Exactly. If not what you expected, you send back BEFORE you botch it up. And botch it up you did. It is worth less than before you touched it. Not fair to the seller.
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True but based on what people have been saying, trying to free it up seems to be more popular
 
If after reading all the responses here you still insist on a refund, you have terrible reading comprehension.
The knife was functioning correctly, you screwed up and want the seller to refund after that??
You are 100% in the wrong here. You took tools to a knife when it wasn’t necessary. The knife is no longer worth $575 because of YOU.
If you would like to remain here, suck it up, realize YOUR mistake and keep the knife.
You’d be amazed how forgiving this community is IF you man up here. If not, you’ll make quite a few ignore lists.
Joe
 
KM013070 said:
Very valid points. I don't mind the criticism either. Sometime a brutal slap in the face is good. I do have far more transactions though than feedbacks but I understand that's not the be all end all.
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Now that you have faced some cold hard words and facts, you need to search within you to do the right thing by the seller. In a nutshell, he ought to have ZERO recourse for something which was unbeknown to him yet being attributed to him because your other courses of action will take longer and will also be more arduous.

I went through a not so dissimilar situation to you, but with the caveat that the prior owner had actually opened the knife which was a CRK. How did I know? When I opened it, I saw the pinched washer which made the blade go off center. What did I do? I even messed it up more and when I closed it, the blade was touching the scales whereby I could clearly hear the friction sound. Luckily, it was a CRK so off to Boise it went, ended up costing about $40 in forth / back shipping plus like $1.50 in washers. The rest was free! I ended up not keeping the knife and for a loss of about $100 from start to finish, I sold it to someone else. What was my takeaway? I rather pay more and buy from a dealer in future, if I wanted another CRK or I would try to buy it at the right price point to be able to afford the loss of time, some $ and the privilege of using that folder.

The reason I am telling you the story is not because I want a pat on the back but to illustrate as much PITA as it is, the burden of responsibility and loss falls on the buyer, once the knife is taken apart whether for curiosity, maintenance or cosmetic: attaching a lanyard! I do not think that you are an incorrigible person by the way you write even if in the passion of the moment, your logic is flawed. Do the right thing and close the dispute / claim. own up, take a loss and become a better member of this Community. Thank you.
 
KM013070 you are going to lose your claim and now you are losing your reputation on the forum. You bought the knife and fked it up, take responsibility already.
 
KM013070 said:
True but based on what people have been saying, trying to free it up seems to be more popular
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But those people also have taken ownership and aren’t trying to blame the person they got it from for them screwing it up. Or, they research how to tre it up when it don’t come out easy.

You decided to take it apart. Quite a while after receiving, I might note. You didn’t have the knowledge of how to do it properly. You screwed it up. And you want him to give you your money back plus you wanted to sell the knife (because you filed a PayPal claim then put it up for sale). You are wrong on every single level.

And, you sound like my stepson still trying to blame someone else instead of taking responsibility for your own actions. You’d last about 20 minutes working for me.
 
Seriously. Do the right thing. Cancel the claim. Then either repair it or sell it as is. But take responsibility for what you’ve done and leave the seller alone. He provided you with exactly what he said he would.
 
That problem with the shiro pivot does occur, even with brand new shiros. I can attest to this. Probably more often than reported as not everyone is will to take apart $600 + knives. The seller is not necessarily at fault, but you are for escalating this to a PP claim.
What you should have done was some research first. Then maybe contact the seller, he might have been willing to refund $17 for a new screw, maybe maybe not, IDK.
You should cancel your claim. It will only harm the seller with PP for no good reason. And it will harm you here on the forums.
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