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Recommendation? Situation

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I technically already fulfilled my side. Even though unknowingly sending a seconds knife. It was sent and delivered.
^ You didn't fulfill your side. There's no, "technically" about it!
The fact that you're here now, refusing to accept full responsibility for your misrepresentation, is just so wrong on every level. I personally wouldn't ever want to deal with you after reading your 2 most recent responses.
To note I didn’t pay attention to the box when I received it.
What a pathetic excuse. As I stated- this (your failure to "pay attention"), is 100% on you. It's funny, the buyer sure didn't have a problem seeing the "factory seconds" label on the box of the knife he paid you in good faith for.

I've done several hundred or a thousand or more online sales, most shipped USPS, and NONE ever left as one item, and arrived as another item.
Exactly! I sure wish BF's still had that damn thumbs up deal.
 
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Do we know if the buyer has actually been refunded yet?
 
^ You didn't fulfill your side. There's no, "technically" about it!
The fact that you're here now, refusing to accept full responsibility for your misrepresentation, is just so wrong on every level. I personally wouldn't ever want to deal with you after reading your 2 most recent responses.

What a pathetic excuse. As I stated- this (your failure to "pay attention"), is 100% on you. It's funny, the buyer sure didn't have a problem seeing the "factory seconds" label on the box of the knife he paid you in good faith for.


Exactly! I sure wish BF's still had that damn thumbs up deal.
Yea I’m sure you’d say that if you were in the situation right? Yea I bet.

There is a “technically” because I did. I’m not refusing responsibility I’m looking at a different way than you are. Misinterpretation isn’t why I don’t have the knife back. Also neither is my failure to pay attention. Biased
 
^ IMO- This situation is 100% you're own doing. For if it weren't for, your negligence (misrepresenting this knife YOU listed/sold), the subsequent chain of events never would've occurred. I'm just glad that I wasn't this buyer, because I wouldn't be very happy/appreciate being involved in this fubar situation he now finds himself mired in! Talk about a Happy F-ing New Year......

Bottom line: You sold this knife to an unsuspecting buyer which was clearly a "FACTORY SECONDS (regardless of the price/condition you claim it to be). YOU, misrepresented said knife not declaring it as such. It's the seller's responsibility, to know exactly what he/she is selling (condition) and be 100% accurate in it's description.

FWIW: I also give a lot more credibility to this buyer (he didn't misrepresent anything/has a Feedback rating of 151 100% positive score), vs. a seller who just joined here 2 months ago, and is now seemingly failing, to accept full responsibility for his actions.

As for the USPS Insurance claim- Good luck with that, because that journey will be a long fruitless
I’ve literally taken responsibility for the fact that I sent a seconds knife without knowing? Pointed that out way back in the post. Again how does that reflect the fact that I don’t have the knife back? If I had a problem with anything in this whole situation I would have refused a refund in the first place.
 
Yea I’m sure you’d say that if you were in the situation right? Yea I bet.

There is a “technically” because I did. I’m not refusing responsibility I’m looking at a different way than you are. Misinterpretation isn’t why I don’t have the knife back. Also neither is my failure to pay attention. Biased
Dude my dude, you absolutely positively did not perform on this deal. You simply didn't. There is no "technically" about it and it's not subject to opinion. You sold the guy a 2nd and are now behaving like it's either not a big deal or that you didn't know and that absolves you. Neither is accurate. It is the sellers responsibility to know what they're selling and describe is correctly.
No I haven’t. I also won’t until I hear from A arvinn on what’s going on with insurance
I can understand why you'd want to wait but I think you should consider the following:
1) Refund him $60 now. Since the most insurance will cover is $100, there's nothing to be done about the remaining $60 aside from refunding the man.
2) Immaterial of how the insurance claims goes, unless you have very good reason to believe the buyer sabotaged it somehow, you still owe him $160 (or $100 if you've already refunded the $60). While not as pessimistic as others, I still give this a decent shot (10-15%) of failure. The buyer would still need to be made whole.
 
Maybe listen to the guy^ with 336 positive ratings. He might know something about how to conduct a fair transaction.
 
Dude my dude, you absolutely positively did not perform on this deal. You simply didn't. There is no "technically" about it and it's not subject to opinion. You sold the guy a 2nd and are now behaving like it's either not a big deal or that you didn't know and that absolves you. Neither is accurate. It is the sellers responsibility to know what they're selling and describe is correctly.

I can understand why you'd want to wait but I think you should consider the following:
1) Refund him $60 now. Since the most insurance will cover is $100, there's nothing to be done about the remaining $60 aside from refunding the man.
2) Immaterial of how the insurance claims goes, unless you have very good reason to believe the buyer sabotaged it somehow, you still owe him $160 (or $100 if you've already refunded the $60). While not as pessimistic as others, I still give this a decent shot (10-15%) of failure. The buyer would still need to be made whole.
It’s not about preforming it’s not about sending a seconds. It’s about not having the knife back “dude”.

Let’s just say If I had “inspected” the box of the knife I didn’t like and listed it as a seconds and he still bought it , recieved it, didn’t like it, I offer him the refund and the same thing happens, the knife isn’t returned then what? Still my fault huh? Still on me to cut the lose and refund the buyer just because i got a box with something other than the knife in it?

Basically what you are saying is buyer has no responsibilities in a return right? Because I am the one that packaged the refund/return box up wrote the return and sending address and sent it off right? Right.
 
Maybe listen to the guy^ with 336 positive ratings. He might know something about how to conduct a fair transaction.

Ive got over 100 on knafsale and 200+ on eBay. Besides delayed shipping from the postal services this is the only problem I’ve had.
 
^ You didn't fulfill your side. There's no, "technically" about it!
The fact that you're here now, refusing to accept full responsibility for your misrepresentation, is just so wrong on every level. I personally wouldn't ever want to deal with you after reading your 2 most recent responses.

What a pathetic excuse. As I stated- this (your failure to "pay attention"), is 100% on you. It's funny, the buyer sure didn't have a problem seeing the "factory seconds" label on the box of the knife he paid you in good faith for.


Exactly! I sure wish BF's still had that damn thumbs up deal.
Lighten up. You seem to be a little quick to vilify people who are here legitimately trying to find the best solution to an issue. It’s not helping anything or any one. Has it not occurred to you that the seller himself was the original victim here, buying a knife that was misrepresented in the first place? Then when he tried to make it right with the buyer by offering a refund, he got a screwdriver handle back instead if his knife, thereby getting screwed twice. I don’t know who’s at fault, nobody knows where his knife is, but ffs put yourself in his shoes before throwing the book at him.
 
^ IMO- This situation is 100% you're own doing. For if it weren't for, your negligence (misrepresenting this knife YOU listed/sold), the subsequent chain of events never would've occurred. I'm just glad that I wasn't this buyer, because I wouldn't be very happy/appreciate being involved in this fubar situation he now finds himself mired in! Talk about a Happy F-ing New Year......

Bottom line: You sold this knife to an unsuspecting buyer which was clearly a "FACTORY SECONDS (regardless of the price/condition you claim it to be). YOU, misrepresented said knife not declaring it as such. It's the seller's responsibility, to know exactly what he/she is selling (condition) and be 100% accurate in it's description.

FWIW: I also give a lot more credibility to this buyer (he didn't misrepresent anything/has a Feedback rating of 151 100% positive score), vs. a seller who just joined here 2 months ago, and is now seemingly failing, to accept full responsibility for his actions.

As for the USPS Insurance claim- Good luck with that, because that journey will be a long fruitless endeavor......
I agree with this! 👍
 
The various possibilities: 1.The knife was stolen in transit. 2. The buyer was angry about getting a factory second, and decided to keep the knife and send a tool to express his anger. This doesn’t make sense since the buyer appears to be serious and has 150 perfect feedback record that he would not want to tarnish over the small amount of money. 3. The seller was angry about getting called out for selling a factory second, and decided to create a scandal by putting a tool in the box and contacting a moderator, thereby casting a shadow on the buyers excellent reputation. This seems like a very illogical thing to do, but who knows. 4. The package passed through the Twilight Zone, which had the effect of dematerializing the original contents, and reforming the molecular structure.
 
It’s not about preforming it’s not about sending a seconds. It’s about not having the knife back “dude”.

Let’s just say If I had “inspected” the box of the knife I didn’t like and listed it as a seconds and he still bought it , recieved it, didn’t like it, I offer him the refund and the same thing happens, the knife isn’t returned then what? Still my fault huh? Still on me to cut the lose and refund the buyer just because i got a box with something other than the knife in it?

Basically what you are saying is buyer has no responsibilities in a return right? Because I am the one that packaged the refund/return box up wrote the return and sending address and sent it off right? Right.
Sending a 2nd *is* non-performance. Why is this difficult to understand? You represented one thing and delivered another. This is the central issue as, without this, everyone would likely be happy with the transaction.

If you want to play the conjecture game then let me submit that, if the buyer knew it was a 2nd, he may have not bought the knife at all (thereby avoiding this fiasco) or he may have simply accepted it when it arrived (again, avoiding this fiasco).

Backing out a trade isn't based on "not liking the knife". Its based on the knife being misrepresented which it was (this is uncontested by either of you). If he'd said something along the lines of "whoops, just realized I don't like framelocks, let's back out" then you'd have cause to tell him to pound sand. That didn't happen here.

As far as "no responsibilities". What responsibility did the buyer skirt here? The box was packaged well and arrived in one piece to you.

You're essentially claiming fraud. You're provided next-to-nothing to support this. The picture of a random tool with a random usps box isn't evidence of anything. If you want to dig your heals in on that then go ahead and contact the postmaster general and ask them to investigate. I sincerely doubt you'll do this and doubt even further it'll go anywhere positive.
Ive got over 100 on knafsale and 200+ on eBay. Besides delayed shipping from the postal services this is the only problem I’ve had.
And how do you think Ebay would handle this situation? My money is on they'd simply refund the buyer from your account. If you're persistent enough, they might eat the $$ but that's unlikely.

The various possibilities: 1.The knife was stolen in transit. 2. The buyer was angry about getting a factory second, and decided to keep the knife and send a tool to express his anger. This doesn’t make sense since the buyer appears to be serious and has 150 perfect feedback record that he would not want to tarnish over the small amount of money. 3. The seller was angry about getting called out for selling a factory second, and decided to create a scandal by putting a tool in the box and contacting a moderator, thereby casting a shadow on the buyers excellent reputation. This seems like a very illogical thing to do, but who knows. 4. The package passed through the Twilight Zone, which had the effect of dematerializing the original contents, and reforming the molecular structure.
I'd add that there's a ninja USPS worker who stealth opened the box, took out the contents, replaced them with a tool, and re-sealed the box perfectly.

That's the spectrum of possibilities we're working with here.

For me, the bottom line is (unless the buyer or seller confess to committing fraud) that the seller initiated this entire drama through (likely unintentionally) improperly describing / documenting his knife.
 
The fact is that there is no way for any of us to determine "the truth". There are many ways that this "could have" / "might have" gone, but none of them can be proven here...whether good or bad.

What remains is a divergence of positions, and a dispute. Both sides make legitimate points in their arguments, but we still don't know the "actual" facts.

Personally, I think that the "buyer" should file a claim with the post office, regardless of whether it will ultimately be paid out or rejected.

Once that is done and both sides have reviewed the official USPS reply, any remaining loss or compensation due either party should be apportioned in a fair manner, or an agreement to split the loss evenly.

Bottom line is that only the two individuals know exactly what they did, and / or, did not do...and we only have their words to go on.

What they need to consider is whether their reputations here matter to them going forward, if they intend to do further deals in the future.

I generally give credence to those who have a long history of successful transactions on this site...but that is still not actual "evidence" (beyond a reasonable doubt) of the events which took place in this case, unless the matter were being settled by a preponderance of the evidence...and even then...who among us actually knows beyond the two parties?

I hope an amicable disposition can be reached by the members. That may be the best that can be hoped for unless further information comes to light.
 
On the issue of ultimate responsibility...I see the oversight, (taking the seller at his word), as akin to shipping a knife with a minor flaw that the owner (seller) was unaware of at the time of sale.

The buyer receives the knife, examines it and decides that he cannot live with the flaw, despite the item otherwise being completely viable, and arranges to send it back.

In the end, the seller is still due his "flawed" knife back despite the oversight which prevented his seeing and reporting the flaw at the time of sale.

In this case, the seller is still due his item back, and it is the responsibility of the buyer to get it to him.

If both parties did what they claim, then there was no deliberate intent to defraud by either, and yet, taken at their word, the seller did not get his goods back. (Which would imply that a third party nefariously opened the package and substituted the "tool" in the place of the knife.)

Since that cannot be proven here...it seems reasonable that the loss should be shared between the two parties.

(If one of them is not telling the truth, then, of course, that party would have taken advantage of the situation unjustly, but who here can say with certainty which one that is?)

That's the end of my conjecture at this point.
 
On the issue of ultimate responsibility...I see the oversight, (taking the seller at his word), as akin to shipping a knife with a minor flaw that the owner (seller) was unaware of at the time of sale.

The buyer receives the knife, examines it and decides that he cannot live with the flaw, despite the item otherwise being completely viable, and arranges to send it back.

In the end, the seller is still due his "flawed" knife back despite the oversight which prevented his seeing and reporting the flaw at the time of sale.

In this case, the seller is still due his item back, and it is the responsibility of the buyer to get it to him.

If both parties did what they claim, then there was no deliberate intent to defraud by either, and yet, taken at their word, the seller did not get his goods back. (Which would imply that a third party nefariously opened the package and substituted the "tool" in the place of the knife.)

Since that cannot be proven here...it seems reasonable that the loss should be shared between the two parties.

(If one of them is not telling the truth, then, of course, that party would have taken advantage of the situation unjustly, but who here can say with certainty which one that is?)

That's the end of my conjecture at this point.
I agree with most of your post but would add that it seems remote that someone with 150+ feedback would knowingly jump thru hoops in order to steal $60 from the seller. I know I personally wouldn't.

I also find it really unlikely that the package was intercepted by a USPS employee who had the tool handy and, knowing the knife inside (how?), opened the package, took out the knife, replaced it with the tool, and perfectly resealed it.
 
If the knife was stolen in transit by a USPS employee (which if we believe both parties is what must have happened) then a serious crime has been committed and then the next steps are to contact the proper authorities.

Or the buyer is willing to throw away his reputation here for a relatively small amount of money.
Or the seller is the one who placed the tool in the box.

I seriously doubt the crime scenario for various reasons.
I also doubt the “buyer pulling a fast one” scenario.
And so I for one would not choose to ever do business with this seller based on his misrepresenting the knife, and on what this situation has become.
Just my thoughts and that’s that take it or leave it.
 
If the knife was stolen in transit by a USPS employee (which if we believe both parties is what must have happened) then a serious crime has been committed and then the next steps are to contact the proper authorities.

Or the buyer is willing to throw away his reputation here for a relatively small amount of money.
Or the seller is the one who placed the tool in the box.

I seriously doubt the crime scenario for various reasons.
I also doubt the “buyer pulling a fast one” scenario.
And so I for one would not choose to ever do business with this seller based on his misrepresenting the knife, and on what this situation has become.
Just my thoughts and that’s that take it or leave it.
If anything, the buyer is pulling a "slow one" since he now has to jump thru hoops of getting the insurance claim resolved
 
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