Recommendation? Situation

[Blues]

I agree with most of your post but would add that it seems remote that someone with 150+ feedback would knowingly jump thru hoops in order to steal $60 from the seller. I know I personally wouldn't.

I also find it really unlikely that the package was intercepted by a USPS employee who had the tool handy and, knowing the knife inside (how?), opened the package, took out the knife, replaced it with the tool, and perfectly resealed it.

I don't disagree with any of that.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

On the issue of ultimate responsibility...I see the oversight, (taking the seller at his word), as akin to shipping a knife with a minor flaw that the owner (seller) was unaware of at the time of sale.

The buyer receives the knife, examines it and decides that he cannot live with the flaw, despite the item otherwise being completely viable, and arranges to send it back.

In the end, the seller is still due his "flawed" knife back despite the oversight which prevented his seeing and reporting the flaw at the time of sale.

In this case, the seller is still due his item back, and it is the responsibility of the buyer to get it to him.

If both parties did what they claim, then there was no deliberate intent to defraud by either, and yet, taken at their word, the seller did not get his goods back. (Which would imply that a third party nefariously opened the package and substituted the "tool" in the place of the knife.)

Since that cannot be proven here...it seems reasonable that the loss should be shared between the two parties.

(If one of them is not telling the truth, then, of course, that party would have taken advantage of the situation unjustly, but who here can say with certainty which one that is?)

That's the end of my conjecture at this point.

I think this offers a fair solution to such a situation, however since the seller has already offered to cover the buyers loss he should still do so IMO
If I were him, I would take the previous advise and send the $60 as a sign of good faith, with follow up as needed
The one positive the seller can get out of this is reputation

 

[KELAMA]

I sent the knife back for refund. I only had the knife out of the box for less than 5 minutes until I saw the label of the box that said “second” then i PM you right away. Once you explained that you didn’t know that it was factory seconds and to return for a refund I packaged the knife for return and dropped it off after Christmas. I paid for the return shipping and didn’t expect to get that back since you didn’t know it was factory seconds. I taped the box in the foam tightly so it wouldn’t rattle and had the bubble wrap on the knife like you sent it. I waited till you got the package to inspect the knife before issuing any refund. I saw that it was delivered today and waited for you to inspect it when you had a chance. I didn't request any refund ahead of time. I was going to wait a few days before PM to see the status if I didn’t get a refund since it’s the holidays. You PM me and accused me of fraud. I didn’t accuse you. I only mentioned that I taped the box inside and the priority mail box very well.
I have only been a member in BF for about 6 months. I’ve purchased over 150 knives here with no issue. Your knife was the first one I’ve had to send back because of issue. I also have 100% rating on eBay with over 1,100 purchases (never sold anything).

I've re-read the initial responses you posted a couple of more times.

"I didn't request any refund ahead of time. I was going to wait a few days before PM to see the status if I didn’t get a refund since it’s the holidays. You PM me and accused me of fraud. I didn’t accuse you. I only mentioned that I taped the box inside and the priority"

^ I believe you. I personally feel that you're the innocent victim, in this fubar dramafest.

I didn’t request a refund ahead of time. I expected you to inspect the knife before a refund. Why would I send a tool in its place?
That reply of rip off was only after you accused me. I’ve always given you the benefit of the doubt.
This is a hobby. I buy for enjoyment and slight addiction. In would never send back a tool.

I'd be pissed if I were you, had I dealt with a seller on here, who first misrepresented a knife I bought, but then would have the audacity to accuse/implicate me.... then start a thread on an open forum casting suspicion about my character, tarnishing my name even further.

Yea I’m sure you’d say that if you were in the situation right? Yea I bet.

There is a “technically” because I did. I’m not refusing responsibility I’m looking at a different way than you are. Misinterpretation isn’t why I don’t have the knife back. Also neither is my failure to pay attention. Biased

With all due respect, I wouldn't be here in this type situation (GBU dramafest) you presently find yourself party to.

"Biased?"
Subjective perhaps.... But FWIW: I would've handled this situation (had I misrepresented a knife I sold), very differently, and accepted full responsibility/accepted the total lo$$. But that's just the old school way I was raised/roll.

Dude my dude, you absolutely positively did not perform on this deal. You simply didn't. There is no "technically" about it and it's not subject to opinion. You sold the guy a 2nd and are now behaving like it's either not a big deal or that you didn't know and that absolves you. Neither is accurate. It is the sellers responsibility to know what they're selling and describe is correctly.

I can understand why you'd want to wait but I think you should consider the following:
1) Refund him $60 now. Since the most insurance will cover is $100, there's nothing to be done about the remaining $60 aside from refunding the man.
2) Immaterial of how the insurance claims goes, unless you have very good reason to believe the buyer sabotaged it somehow, you still owe him $160 (or $100 if you've already refunded the $60). While not as pessimistic as others, I still give this a decent shot (10-15%) of failure. The buyer would still need to be made whole.

Exactly- A full 100% refund.

I seriously doubt the crime scenario for various reasons.
I also doubt the “buyer pulling a fast one” scenario.
And so I for one would not choose to ever do business with this seller based on his misrepresenting the knife, and on what this situation has become.
Just my thoughts and that’s that take it or leave it.

This perfectly sums up exactly how I feel.

 

[ooitzoo]

With all due respect, I wouldn't be here in this situation (GBU dramafest) you presently find yourself party to.

"Biased?"
Subjective perhaps.... But FWIW: I would've handled this situation (had I misrepresented a knife I sold), very differently, and accepted full responsibility/accepted the total lo$$. But that's just the old school way I was raised/roll.

I think this is the key part that OP refuses to acknowledge. He created this drama by irresponsibly listing the knife. Since we can't know EXACTLY who did (or didn't) do what, we have to go by who failed to act in a responsible manner. That would be the OP. Trying to minimize misrepresenting the knife isn't the excuse he thinks it is.

It's always strange to me when people go with the "yeah, I f&*cked up but it's not a big deal because [non-reason]". Dude, you screwed up. It happens. Own it, make it right, learn, and move on. FFS.

 

[bax229]

Defrauding USPS for $195 is meth-level stupid. For one thing, it's a felony (you outright have to sign something that says as much). For another, is the $100 REALLY worth that much to you.

No, that was my point

All in, I think it took 2-3 weeks but I can dig up the GBU thread to confirm if you're interested.

No need, like I said...just curious

 

[arvinn]

Thanks for all the replies. I’ll go with whatever the forum decides. At this point I just want to try and move on. It’s too much anxiety for such a small amount. A hobby is suppose to decrease anxiety from work. On the plus side hopefully this will ween me off spending so much on a new hobby. I mainly switched to collecting knives to keep from spending so much on watches. It sort of worked. Knives are much cheaper than watches but the quantity is adding up.

 

[ooitzoo]

Thanks for all the replies. I’ll go with whatever the forum decides. At this point I just want to try and move on. It’s too much anxiety for such a small amount. A hobby is suppose to decrease anxiety from work. On the plus side hopefully this will ween me off spending so much on a new hobby. I mainly switched to collecting knives to keep from spending so much on watches. It sort of worked. Knives are much cheaper than watches but the quantity is adding up.

I think the consensus here is you file a USPS insurance claim, Corbi43 refunds you the $60, then depending on whether USPS pays out you either keep that $100 or Corbi43 refunds the remaining $100

NINJA Edit: that's the consensus from folks on the forum, whether Corbi43 will actually follow thru remains to be seen

 

[arvinn]

Yup. USPS claim has been filed. Just waiting for reply.

 

[karnaknives]

Thanks for all the replies. I’ll go with whatever the forum decides. At this point I just want to try and move on. It’s too much anxiety for such a small amount. A hobby is suppose to decrease anxiety from work. On the plus side hopefully this will ween me off spending so much on a new hobby. I mainly switched to collecting knives to keep from spending so much on watches. It sort of worked. Knives are much cheaper than watches but the quantity is adding up.

I respect this and I think in the long run you’ll be rewarded.
Have an awesome day and a happy new year!

 

[Corbi43]

I think this is the key part that OP refuses to acknowledge. He created this drama by irresponsibly listing the knife. Since we can't know EXACTLY who did (or didn't) do what, we have to go by who failed to act in a responsible manner. That would be the OP. Trying to minimize misrepresenting the knife isn't the excuse he thinks it is.

It's always strange to me when people go with the "yeah, I f&*cked up but it's not a big deal because [non-reason]". Dude, you screwed up. It happens. Own it, make it right, learn, and move on. FFS.

Never said it wasn’t a big deal. You’re assuming I think so because I’m defending myself? Wild.

Its the principle fact that I have no idea if it was usps or the buyer. You all are stuck on “well if you wouldn’t have sold the seconds knife” ok? Things happen. I owned up to that. That does not take away from the fact that I do not have the product back.

I guess now a days all you need for a refund is the wrong product and a receipt right? That’s like taking the wrong product back to the store and assuming you’re getting a refund.

I already stated I’d refund the difference. On the other half we will have to agree to disagree. I’m not going to be out the knife and 160. Not sure how many people in this forum discussion would be happy about being out of pocket 390 dollars.

 

[ooitzoo]

Never said it wasn’t a big deal. You’re assuming I think so because I’m defending myself? Wild.

Its the principle fact that I have no idea if it was usps or the buyer. You all are stuck on “well if you wouldn’t have sold the seconds knife” ok? Things happen. I owned up to that. That does not take away from the fact that I do not have the product back.

I guess now a days all you need for a refund is the wrong product and a receipt right? That’s like taking the wrong product back to the store and assuming you’re getting a refund.

I already stated I’d refund the difference. On the other half we will have to agree to disagree. I’m not going to be out the knife and 160. Not sure how many people in this forum discussion would be happy about being out of pocket 390 dollars.

You keep changing your story. What, precisely, are you "defending" yourself from? You started a thread asking for advise. You got advise. You seem to dislike the advise and now feel you need to "defend" yourself.

First it was "I'll refund the buyer". Now it's "I'll refund $60 but we have to agree to disagree on the balance". Ridiculous. You owe the man $160. If USPS will pick up $100 of that then great. If not, you still owe him the $100. This is because *you* failed to perform on your side of the deal. Of course, you already know that but still seem to try to weasel your way out of it.

Do you have any proof that he sent you the wrong "product"? Aside from your pictures which prove absolutely nothing. Do you have ANYTHING except your word?

Gotta say given the # of times you've flip-flopped, your word is eroding pretty quickly.

If Amazon sends me the wrong product, I get a refund. They have an option for that in returns. This isn't difficult.

To be abundantly clear, you're not out the knife *AND* $160. You have the buyers initial $160 that he paid you in good faith for the product that you failed to describe correctly. This is uncontested by either party. It's not as if you refunded him the $$ and now he's demanding some additional sum.

Ninja Edit: where did the $390 come from?

 

[Corbi43]

You keep changing your story. What, precisely, are you "defending" yourself from? You started a thread asking for advise. You got advise. You seem to dislike the advise and now feel you need to "defend" yourself.

First it was "I'll refund the buyer". Now it's "I'll refund $60 but we have to agree to disagree on the balance". Ridiculous. You owe the man $160. If USPS will pick up $100 of that then great. If not, you still owe him the $100. This is because *you* failed to perform on your side of the deal. Of course, you already know that but still seem to try to weasel your way out of it.

Do you have any proof that he sent you the wrong "product"? Aside from your pictures which prove absolutely nothing. Do you have ANYTHING except your word?

Gotta say given the # of times you've flip-flopped, your word is eroding pretty quickly.

If Amazon sends me the wrong product, I get a refund. They have an option for that in returns. This isn't difficult.

To be abundantly clear, you're not out the knife *AND* $160. You have the buyers initial $160 that he paid you in good faith for the product that you failed to describe correctly. This is uncontested by either party. It's not as if you refunded him the $$ and now he's demanding some additional sum.

Yea because I keep changing my story. When have I flipped flopped my story? Please elaborate. Never said I was going to fully refund the buyer. I said I’ll refund the difference of the insurance

Do I have proof? No except the fact that I got something different for the return. But you’re one sided so that doesn’t matter. I’m not sure where your “reasoning” comes from but this isn’t Amazon nor is it eBay. Just based off of your “ninja usps guy” comment and every other comment you’ve posted you are extremely biased. You’re acting like situations like this never happen. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen at all.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

You keep changing your story. What, precisely, are you "defending" yourself from? You started a thread asking for advise. You got advise. You seem to dislike the advise and now feel you need to "defend" yourself.

First it was "I'll refund the buyer". Now it's "I'll refund $60 but we have to agree to disagree on the balance". Ridiculous. You owe the man $160. If USPS will pick up $100 of that then great. If not, you still owe him the $100. This is because *you* failed to perform on your side of the deal. Of course, you already know that but still seem to try to weasel your way out of it.

Do you have any proof that he sent you the wrong "product"? Aside from your pictures which prove absolutely nothing. Do you have ANYTHING except your word?

Gotta say given the # of times you've flip-flopped, your word is eroding pretty quickly.

If Amazon sends me the wrong product, I get a refund. They have an option for that in returns. This isn't difficult.

To be abundantly clear, you're not out the knife *AND* $160. You have the buyers initial $160 that he paid you in good faith for the product that you failed to describe correctly. This is uncontested by either party. It's not as if you refunded him the $$ and now he's demanding some additional sum.

Ninja Edit: where did the $390 come from?

While your math is correct, you are wrong that he said he would refund the buyer in whole( since not getting his return, as far as I can find)-I thought he had,but he has only offered the $60.

 

[stonesell]

If the two parties don’t agree on a solution, and the buyer used PayPal G&S, a claim for wrong product received might be an option. If that’s not the case, but the payment was funded through a major credit card, a dispute could be filed. I’ve had good results with both, the few times that I needed to get things moving, and people motivated.

 

[karnaknives]

Look, maybe it happened exactly as you’ve described here. Maybe it was a USPS employee or maybe it was this buyer. We’ll never know.
But based on the evidence (or lack of) the only conclusion is that you owe the buyer a refund.

You keep saying things like “You wouldn’t like it” and you’re right, I would not like it if I were in your shoes. BUT I would refund the money. Because it’s the only way to make this right and keep your name clean and to walk away with integrity.
I HAVE had to refund money to a buyer I KNEW had lied and who did NOT deserve that refund but I paid it in order to maintain my reputation and in the end the money was not worth the trouble.

It’s your name, do what you want.
I know what I would do.

 

[ooitzoo]

Yea because I keep changing my story. When have I flipped flopped my story? Please elaborate. Never said I was going to fully refund the buyer. I said I’ll refund the difference of the insurance

Do I have proof? No except the fact that I got something different for the return. But you’re one sided so that doesn’t matter. I’m not sure where your “reasoning” comes from but this isn’t Amazon nor is it eBay. Just based off of your “ninja usps guy” comment and every other comment you’ve posted you are extremely biased. You’re acting like situations like this never happen. Just because it doesn’t happen to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen at all.

Where did the $390 come from?
How exactly are you out the knife and $160?
What, precisely, are you "defending" yourself from?

The forum rules are crystal clear. It's the sellers responsibility to correctly describe their product. Your excuse of "I didn't check the box" smells of straight out BS. Especially since you've done hundreds upon hundreds of sales / trades apparently.

My Amazon response was in context to your "I just need a receipt and the wrong item, right?" comment. Here it is for you in case you forgot:

I guess now a days all you need for a refund is the wrong product and a receipt right? That’s like taking the wrong product back to the store and assuming you’re getting a refund.

From exchange rules (https://www.bladeforums.com/help/exchange-rules/):

When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions. If you have a problem being honest, upfront, and are unable to honor your word then you do not belong here.

Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice for buyers to see what they are going to get. Threads with pictures sell items faster than those without. Keep in mind, gigantic photos take forever to load for some people and can be an eyesore, resizing to a reasonable size is advised

What exactly does "biased" mean? In point of fact, I am biased against sloppy irresponsible sellers (or buyers or anyone else). To be clear, this description is giving you the benefit of the doubt as its becoming more and more likely you're full of $h!t.
Were you hoping to be coddled and told its fine to misrepresent your item(s) without being held to account?

The ninja USPS guy comment is an germane one because it's incredibly unlikely to be accurate; funny that you'd take offense to it.

The situation here is binary. Either you're lying or the buyer sent you a random tool. Your OP states as much. Problem is, you got the piss taken out of you in the first 5-6 posts here so now you're sulking behind "but muh insurance" or "but this isn't amazon" or "I didn't check the box" or "I technically held up my part". You've been told repeatedly that none of your excuses will fly.

As someone else posted, "situations" where an item leaves as a knife and arrives as a random tool don't happen unless someone is scamming.

My recommendation to A arvinn is to let the insurance work its way thru USPS. Once done, if USPS pays and you do then all is fine. If USPS doesn't and you do then all is fine. If USPS doesn't and you don't then he should post your information on here (name, address, phone #, etc.). This way when you're eventually banned and try to come back we all know to steer clear. This isn't intended to be punitive but rather a service to the other folks on the forum.

 

[ooitzoo]

If the two parties don’t agree on a solution, and the buyer used PayPal G&S, a claim for wrong product received might be an option. If that’s not the case, but the payment was funded through a major credit card, a dispute could be filed. I’ve had good results with both, the few times that I needed to get things moving, and people motivated.

Good call. We probably should've checked on this first.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

If it was a 3rd party, weighing of the package and contents, should reveal that.
It would be a nice gesture to get that done at the PO and clear the buyers name
Won't clear all doubt of seller, but could buyer

 

[ooitzoo]

If it was a 3rd party, weighing of the package and contents, should reveal that.
It would be a nice gesture to get that done at the PO and clear the buyers name
Won't clear all doubt of seller, but could buyer

That would require OP having credibility left. He's got none with me.

 

[ooitzoo]

Sorry for the extra bump here. It won't let me edit my last comment to include the quotes and I didn't notice your reply until a few minutes ago.

While your math is correct, you are wrong that he said he would refund the buyer in whole( since not getting his return, as far as I can find)-I thought he had,but he has only offered the $60.

He said he'd pay the difference:

Yea I said I’d pay the difference. Don’t have a problem with that. I shipped the knife, he got it. Didn’t want it told him id refund him and the knife didn’t get to me me. How? Apparently that’s a mystery.

I think it's unlikely that USPS pays out any amount that isn't $100 (or nothing), the difference would amount to either $160 or $60