Strider Knives, Game Over!

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Clovis said:
(e)SKI will immediately cease and desist from holding Strider out as having ever been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger, a member of or a participant with SOCOM, as having ever been deployed in "black ops", or as having had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S. Government. SKI shall take immediate actions to correct any such representations currently made on its own website (see Exhibit B) and to the extent possible shall take immediate actions to correct any such representations by its business partners, including but not limited to advertising regarding SKI's partnership and distribution through Buck Knives.
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Opps it says "holding Strider out"...not the company.

Delete...Delete..
 
"Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School"

Again, I would like to state that there are a lot of people that this is true for. Please be careful not to paint with a braod brush.

Tab or no tabs, soldiersassigned to the battalions trained, prepared, jumped, and everything that goes with it. I do not believe that there were "opt out" clauses for soldiers if they didn't have a tab.

I am not trying to obfuscate. I am trying to make sure that in zealous pursuit of goals, people don't malign others they are claiming to honor.
 
Combat experience makes no difference whether you make a good knife. Why does it make a difference with SKI?

The last few years have been an intimate inquisition of speculation that LIES! were told - nothing is yet substantiated other than certain methods of gaining said experience have apparently not been used, or are in question. Nobody who knows a thing can or will come forward to substantiate things beyond doubt. Others heap up more speculation. The business competitors jump on for more sales.

There is no absolute proof none of said claims never happened. The suspension of disbelief occurs when detractors cannot admit any possible alternative of circumstances and again speculate how it is impossible. No attempt is made to understand how it could be possible, and when speculation is proposed, it's condemned. Too bad, it's equally valid. It's just speculation based on the same statements and a different view. If it's wrong to support a view that things could be possible, it's equally wrong to support a view that it's impossible. There is no definitive absolute truth yet revealed to make a more informed decision.

In reality, a combat vet gets some difficult memories, and few more dollars in his paycheck. If he gets more than that, it's based on the speculation by others that it must mean something beyond the experience.

What is it that others find so important they vilify anyone who might not have had that experience - and treat others as lesser mortals?

What is it?
 
By all means, tirod3, provide any proof that it did happen. The problem with "suspension of disbelief" is that when someone is caught lying, repeatedly, there's little reason to believe any claims they make.

We've been waiting for months now. Or are you of the mindset that no lies were told at all?
 
Also, what the hell is up with this?
tirod3 said:
What is it that others find so important they vilify anyone who might not have had that experience - and treat others as lesser mortals?
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You need to cite this right now. Name one person who's vilified people soley on the basis of their being without combat experience and back it up with quotes.

Now, I will say this flat out however: If you make up combat experience to lend yourself some sort of "credentials" or otherwise puff up your claims, you are a scumbag.
It takes a seriously delusional mind to twist that into "vilify anyone who might not have had that experience".
 
tirod3 said:
There is no absolute proof none of said claims never happened.
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Mick Strider said:
Okay now lets just get this over with...Both myself and my partner Duane, are combat vets. REAL combat vets. Whatever that may mean, I guarantee we qualify.
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Section 1, part (c), Mick Strider had to allocute as follows:

Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S. Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private.
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And I still don't get this whole 'quit glorifying combat vets' thing. I know guys who wear CIBs & CABs, some of them are jerks. But you don't have to glorify an honest person to criticize a liar. Hell, if they had claimed to be metallurgists, and then it turns out they weren't, I'd still be annoyed at the deception. You don't have to be a combat vet or a metallurgist to make a good knife. Maybe, just maybe, people want to buy from guys who don't lie about their qualifications.

And I don't see vets like Allen Elishewitz (Force Recon) or MSG Kit Carson cord-wrapping and tiger striping their blades. Blaming the marketing on the consumer?
 
I find it really interesting that tirod3 continually brings up "business competitors" in his posts; so just on a lark I did a post search and guess who keeps cropping up in the various Cold Steel threads, especially the ones criticizing them for design ripoffs?

I guess it's ok to rip off a military background & credentials though, eh tirod3? It's no big deal to capitalize on the service & deaths of guys in the military when your own CV is lacking... but if a design looks even a little like another, that's something to be upset over. Right? Fascinating double standard that.
 
tirod3 said:
Combat experience makes no difference whether you make a good knife. Why does it make a difference with SKI?

The last few years have been an intimate inquisition of speculation that LIES! were told - nothing is yet substantiated other than certain methods of gaining said experience have apparently not been used, or are in question. Nobody who knows a thing can or will come forward to substantiate things beyond doubt. Others heap up more speculation. The business competitors jump on for more sales.

There is no absolute proof none of said claims never happened.
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[emphasis added]

Oh really. "The last few years"? Would you be so kind as to read Mr. Strider's admissions:

"Section 1, part (c), Mick Strider had to allocute as follows:

Mick Strider hereby acknowledges that he has never been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger. Strider also acknowledges that he has never served in or participated with SOCOM (Special Operations Command). Strider also acknowledges that he has never had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S. Government Agencies, nor has he participated in any "Black Ops". Strider served in 2/75, but never graduated Ranger School. Strider lost all rank, was barred from re-enlistment and was discharged from the Military as a Private.
. . .
(e)SKI will immediately cease and desist from holding Strider out as having ever been deployed as a U.S. Army Ranger, a member of or a participant with SOCOM, as having ever been deployed in "black ops", or as having had any combat experience with any branch of the U.S. Military or U.S. Government. SKI shall take immediate actions to correct any such representations currently made on its own website (see Exhibit B) and to the extent possible shall take immediate actions to correct any such representations by its business partners, including but not limited to advertising regarding SKI's partnership and distribution through Buck Knives."[emphasis added].

That would seem to be that. Mr. Strider is not a "combat vet" according to Mr. Strider. I fail to see how the publishing the truth is vilification.

The topic here is Mr. Dwyer, and I am unaware that the claims that he was a combat vet and Marine Sniper have been at issue for "years." Those claims are emphatically at issue now.

Those who demand more and more proof are merely raising the stakes. But leverage up equals leverage down.
 
Originally posted by Tirod3:
Well, at least someone again admits the "Knife buying for investment purposes!" is a ludicrous joke. It is. I wait expectantly every day to see scam-mail in my trash box inviting me to invest in knife futures, but even those guys know better. 'Nuf said.

I fully expected someone to point out a few makers and designers who do have military credentials - and right along with it, words to the effect they have better creds than an engineer or tradesman whose been making knives for years.

Again, this soap opera is dealing with a misconception. Just because a maker has combat experience means nothing in the grind and grit world of knifemaking. It is a spurious argument that surviving combat equals better insight and design - as the overwhelming majority of civilian makers proves every day. That Strider Knives can compete, does compete, and does make knives that successfully sell is a testimony to hard core knifemaking and marketing skills. That's what it takes in this business, not Condition Red awareness of surroundings.

Those who continue to insist that claims of being a combat vet are insufficiently substantiated are still locked into a belief that it makes a difference on the market place. That belief is false - being a combat vet, or not, stands alone. Being a good knifemaker and producing quantity and quality sufficient to achieve a standing in the market at a price point stands on it's own. We already have achieved consensus the products are not the argument - if it's not the intelligent design of the knives or leading edge components that are under question, then neither are the skills that produce them.

This leaves the issue of verifiable combat experience to most who question it. And, as I pointed out, combat experience has nothing to do with knife production. It's totally unrelated. The anguish and disappointment I read in posts about it seems based on the destruction of an expectation and illusion. "I'm angry because I found out my cherished belief isn't true."

No, you're angry because your cherished belief in the holy annointing of warriors in combat is proven false, and the construct that some immeasurable superiority or enlightenment unavailable to common mortals has failed. That's because it doesn't exist. The draft, used to provide soldiers for WWII, Korea, and Vietnam long ago showed ordinary mortals are sent to war, and battle damaged or not, ordinary mortals return. They are nothing more than that.

You have to accept a lie - that combat is a "holy" experience - to accept that being a combat vet makes a difference, and then give credence to negative speculation. Those who self righteously demand more answers from individuals miss an important point. You should be demanding answers from yourself. Why did you accept the delusion combat makes a difference?

As I said about 1,000 posts back, you will not resolve this, and certainly not here. It's not about the knives, or the skills of the knifemakers, which the knives amply testify. It's about seeing the lie that is exposed in your own thinking.
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There are reasons you missed for wanting the military ties to their knives. Mass appeal for one, collector appeal for another in the way of elevated values for ones with a proven history of military use and a paper trail proving issue to the military for example. Are the knives necessarily better? No one is saying that. In many cases I'm sure knives bought by the military member themselves outperforms those issued but thats not the point.

For a good example of what I mean I add this.
I just recieved my May 2008 issue of tactical knives. Can you believe that? May! Anyway, in it if you have not read it or seen it yet, Mr. Terrill Hoffman writes an article titled "Collectors Corner" and in this issue its on page 8.

He hits on some key points of interest that either coincidentally or by choice hit the nail on the head for much of the appeal with why makers would want to create a connection with the armed forces so they can exploit that some to help promote the knives they make.

I quote here the first paragraph in full and the start of the second paragraph of that article for your convenience:

" Scan back over history and there is no doubt that tactical and military knives have led the way in the collectible knives arena. Art knives and commercial pocket knives have their following. However, if you had to pick one type of knife that has always gained instant collector status, look at the edged weapons of the armed forces. These knives may start life as inexpensive examples of cutlery, but once the military connection is made their value increases ten fold.

That may explain why so many factories and makers try to exploit any connection to the armed forces possible in their efforts to promote their knives."

The point is not so much that the knives appeal to just collectors. I mean they obviously do. The point is that military knives attract attention. People want them. The tactical knife arena is the largest fastest growing segment of cutlery.

STR
 
Teach-
I stand by everything stated in my post.I don't B.S.I don't need 74 posts on this thread (Yep Teach has 74 posts on this thread) to make a point.

Since you posted my profile,i didn't have enough room to add--
served 6 years Army Reserve as a medic,rank of S.Sgt.Served 9 years as a Nassau County Aux. Police Officer. This is why i support Mick & Duane,no matter what MOS they had,they served our country.

Also Teach,you questioned my sig line by Les Robertson.Les is one of the most read and experienced men in the business.Yet he is banned on this forum (the free speech forum).

Wolfmann-At the last 4 NY knife shows,no one had a Blade Forums nametag.Why has this stopped? Is it because these smear threads hurt the whole knife industry? Many B.F. members are ashamed of this.Bill Martino,James Mattis,Walter Welsh are rolling over in their graves.V.G.would
be making jokes.

Those who can--Do
Those who can't--Teach (and talk endlessly)
 
Les is one of the most read and experienced men in the business.Yet he is banned on this forum (the free speech forum).
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Actually he was banned for a while. No doubt he'll be overjoyed that you've dredged that episode up....

Bill Martino,James Mattis,Walter Welsh are rolling over in their graves.
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That's the first of all the lies that have been posted in this thread that has upset me. I think I'll go for a walk now.
 
Cougar Allen said:
Actually he was banned for a while. No doubt he'll be overjoyed that you've dredged that episode up....



That's the first of all the lies that have been posted in this thread that has upset me. I think I'll go for a walk now.
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Don't get upset, brother. It's just one man's opinion. Mr. Masterson is upset and he's striking out -- that one hit below the belt. :(
 
sky masterson said:
This is why i support Mick & Duane,no matter what MOS they had,they served our country.
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So let me get this straight, you lie about your service and you should be supported, but if you don't, you shouldn't? That's BS.

sky masterson said:
Wolfmann-At the last 4 NY knife shows,no one had a Blade Forums nametag.Why has this stopped? Is it because these smear threads hurt the whole knife industry? Many B.F. members are ashamed of this.Bill Martino,James Mattis,Walter Welsh are rolling over in their graves.V.G.would
be making jokes.
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How dare you say you speak for the dead, that is about the scummiest thing I've ever read. I highly doubt any of those mentioned would support using their names to defend liars.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

As for not seeing BladeForums nametags, with behavior like what you just did, I don't ever want you representing this site. I haven't made up BFC Logo tags in years, and quite frankly, aren't asking people to wear them around. If someone chooses to, that's their choice, but it's not something encouraged or even asked.

sky masterson said:
Those who can--Do
Those who can't--Teach (and talk endlessly)
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Those who can, actually are Snipers, combat vets, or have years of special operations experience.
Those who can't, make up stories about it.

EDIT: as for Les Robertson, I'll say it again: I think it's hilarious that you bring him up when he's stated that Mick Strider lied to his face about being a sniper. A MARINE Sniper at that.
 
For those who didn't know "Uncle" Bill Martino, & James Mattis,they were the voices of reason,calmness in all matters.They would put out the fires on the forum, not pour gasoline on them.

They would know this thread belonged in Whine & Cheese to begin with.
GBU forum is for your personal experiences with dealers, sellers & buyers
you've bought, sold or traded with.If you paid for a knife and never
received it,if it was used instead of new etc.

It was put in GBU for the piling on effect.
 
You don't get to speak for the dead.

You especially don't get to sully their names by using them to defend those who do wrong.

This is your last warning on that subject.
 
Here in the real world it was the late James Mattis who came up with the idea of creating TGB&U, and the late Bill Martino never tried to cover up for phonies. I think you've said about enough lies about my deceased friends; you can shut up now.
 
You are so far over the line Sky. How could you know what Bill or Jim or any dead person for that matter would say or think about these types of threads (Strider et al.)? To dishonor these men in death for the purpose of honoring the Strider guys in life simply boggles my limited mind.

To imply that both men (Bill and Jim), men of honor, men of integrity would have nothing to say about folks who bullshit and lie about their military service in order to be held in a higher regard and to farther promote their business is ridiculous!!! Both men were great men of reason but they were MEN who lived their lives as honest men and expected the same, no they DEMANDED the same from others.

Please link me to one post where either man offers their wisdom and words of reason for the purpose of continuing a falsity and condones it at best or directs us all to accept the lies at worst.

Bet you won't find one
 
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