Strider Knives, Game Over!

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STR said:
To make a living off of the deaths of others (real people did what he claimed to do and never came home) is very low...

The last time this story broke my son had just come back from an 18 month stint in Iraq...

Its hard for most of these guys that experience that kind of trauma to even think about it let alone brag at the dinner table...

It seems to me noticing how my own son has changed since his tour of duty watching his commrades die off and actually having to help carry them on the stretchers to get help that most of the real heroes are hard pressed to ever speak of it again...
STR
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STR, I appreciate your sharing these thoughts in such an eloquent manner. Again, I can't say with absolute certainty that Mick and Duane are truly guilty of misrepresenting their combat experience - although the evidence looks pretty damning. But perhaps sincere and heartfelt posts like yours will enable those who haven't served to better understand why these allegations linger on like an open, festering wound to those who have.
 
STR said:
Bill you bring up some good points. I think its like this. This whole thing caused a lot of blow ups in the industry but too many people had too many ties to Strider to step away when the lies came out. Basically they didn't want to admit they had been fooled, but also they still promote off of them so there is money involved. It doesn't bother me as much that Mick committed a crime and paid his debt to society for a three count felony. I guess you have to know the situation to understand that, but the lies on top of the lies, on top of all the editing which indicates covering their tracks bothers me a lot and is indicitive of guilt. I also find it distasteful the way Mick personally attacked other people for having no experince and he just made all of his up apparently. This is disgusting! Now to hear that Duane is of the same ilk or just that it even appears that way is a disheartening blow to many. To make a living off of the deaths of others (real people did what he claimed to do and never came home) is very low.

The last time this story broke my son had just come back from an 18 month stint in Iraq. The whole issue was very touchy for me and really hit home when I realized that my son has never once talked to me about much of what went on there yet I know he was nearly killed twice on convoy duty and also that he watched children get run down rather than risk slowing down as well as other things. Its hard for most of these guys that experience that kind of trauma to even think about it let alone brag at the dinner table. I always get a bit uncomfortable with this kind of thing. Honestly it never felt right to me and thats all this was is talk. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that from folks in the industry. "They talk a good story" is how its come across to me.

It seems to me noticing how my own son has changed since his tour of duty watching his commrades die off and actually having to help carry them on the stretchers to get help that most of the real heroes are hard pressed to ever speak of it again. This should have been red flags to anyone right away but drinking and bragging seem to go hand in hand I guess.

STR
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This is a great post and posts like this even make a strider knife fan (as opposed to a strider fan) have second thoughts...kinda.
 
gator68 said:
I'm not talking about big companies, I'm talking about knives. I have knives from all sorts of people and companies. There are many more knives I would love to have. Because there are so many great places to buy great knives, one of my personal criteria is a bit of respect for the maker. I refuse to buy a knife from someone who lies to me about themselves or the knife.

If someone tells you the knife you are buying from them is S30V, heat treated by Paul Bos, and it turns out it's really 440A done in China... well, no shame on you, you got burned. But if you buy another knife knowing that person is lying to your face you need to get some self-respect and tell that person to get lost.

Same thing if a certain company is trading on their "combat experience" -- OK, at first you take them at face value. But when you find out both owners have lied repeatedly for years about what their true experience is... and even when caught, continue to lie... why buy from them when there are other great knives to be had?
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In all honesty I don't really take people for their word, unless I know them I can't honestly Judge them.
 
STR said:
This whole thing caused a lot of blow ups in the industry but too many people had too many ties to Strider to step away when the lies came out. Basically they didn't want to admit they had been fooled, but also they still promote off of them so there is money involved.
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Just so there can be no confusion as to where I stand on this issue, I have no doubt that there could be many industry types associated with Strider Knives who fall into this category you describe. For the record, however, the two or three makers I had in mind in my previous post are not individuals who would be motivated by such considerations. They are men who have earned and enjoy the greatest reputations in the cutlery community, whose craftsmanship represents the standard by which other makers are compared, and who could each have a backlog of orders by COB tomorrow that would take the rest of their lives to fill, if they so desired. No, there has to be more to it than just that.
 
I have often noticed that some of the greatest knifemakers are not great at using a computer and need lots of help even to figure out how to use Bladeforums.

It might be that some great knifemakers are not great at reading and understanding an OMPF.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I think it is that the Mick and Duane that they know have been good and true friends. We tend to stick by our friends trough thick or thin...
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I suspect that's a large part of it, Keith.

Keith Montgomery said:
...and that's the way it should be.
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Well, yes - at least up to a point, anyway. I guess we all just have to decide for ourselves exactly where that point lies.
 
Bronco said:
Just so there can be no confusion as to where I stand on this issue, I have no doubt that there could be many industry types associated with Strider Knives who fall into this category you describe. For the record, however, the two or three makers I had in mind in my previous post are not individuals who would be motivated by such considerations. They are men who have earned and enjoy the greatest reputations in the cutlery community, whose craftsmanship represents the standard by which other makers are compared, and who could each have a backlog of orders by COB tomorrow that would take the rest of their lives to fill, if they so desired. No, there has to be more to it than just that.
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You are probably right there. I know some of the makers you are referring to also I think. It may be true that they know something we don't. If that is the case I wish they'd share it with us.

Mostly what I've heard is the stuff like we've arleady read regarding how much they donate to good cause, how great they are, how long so and so has known them, how many Rangers and LEOs call them friends. All well and good, but what do they really know, and what do they only think they know? Thats the real question along with is this really a witch hunt or is it news? I feel its the latter and at the current rate of surprise and magnitude of events it could very well end up on an investigative reports on MSNBC or CNN if not end up on CourtTV as another in a long line of high profile cases, none of which is good news for this industry.

STR
 
When I was young, I had a very close friend. As the years went by he got heavily into drugs and eventually became a heroin addict. To support his habit he stole. Over time he ended up in jail a bunch of times, and every time he was released it was me that picked him up and gave him a place to stay. He never brought heroin into my home, and he never stole from me. Though I tried to get him to quit, I never stopped being his friend, and he never stopped being mine. He eventually died of an overdose, but to this day I miss him. To a lot of people he was a scum bag, but to me he was the person that had been my friend since I was five years old.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
When I was young, I had a very close friend. As the years went by he got heavily into drugs and eventually became a heroin addict. To support his habit he stole. Over time he ended up in jail a bunch of times, and every time he was released it was me that picked him up and gave him a place to stay. He never brought heroin into my home, and he never stole from me. Though I tried to get him to quit, I never stopped being his friend, and he never stopped being mine. He eventually died of an overdose, but to this day I miss him. To a lot of people he was a scum bag, but to me he was the person that had been my friend since I was five years old.
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Well, Keith, even if might sound hypocritical of me to say so - in light of my recent posts - I think you most definitely were a good friend to this gent, right to the very end. I'm sorry your story ended the way it did.

If the Strider duo were to share a similar dependence on mind altering chemicals, I suppose I might be willing to take a less harsh view of their alleged transgressions.
 
Irezumi said:
Bubba, you have an agenda and I would not be surprised if you came out and said you were associated with a strider competitor.
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I think I have a good idea as to who "Bubba" is. Included in some of Bubba's posts is verbage that seems quite familiar. Take for example the use of the term "rock star." I seem to recall seeing that very term used in a similar context, on another website (and not in the magazine article about "rock star knifemakers"), a while back, before the content was removed. I have to wonder if Bubba's posts are going to mysteriously vanish as well.

Just to make my personal position known, I'm not a fan of Strider Knives. With what has come to light about the owners (and has not to my knowledge been directly refuted), I'd personally be too worried that the knives advertised as custom weren't really custom, and that the knives were actually made somewhere in China. I mean, if one can apparently lie about having been a spec-ops warrior, why couldn't one lie just as easily about being a knifemaker?

3G
 
3Guardsmen said:
I think I have a good idea as to who "Bubba" is. Included in some of Bubba's posts is verbage that seems quite familiar. Take for example the use of the term "rock star." I seem to recall seeing that very term used in a similar context, on another website (and not in the magazine article about "rock star knifemakers"), a while back, before the content was removed. I have to wonder if Bubba's posts are going to mysteriously vanish as well.

Just to make my personal position known, I'm not a fan of Strider Knives. With what has come to light about the owners (and has not to my knowledge been directly refuted), I'd personally be too worried that the knives advertised as custom weren't really custom, and that the knives were actually made somewhere in China. I mean, if one can apparently lie about having been a spec-ops warrior, why couldn't one lie just as easily about being a knifemaker?

3G
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I'm not hiding from anybody, If you need my name, e-mail, and address just ask, and "No, I'm not Lynn Thompson!" nor do I have anything to do with him, Kevin Mcclung, Chris Osman, or any of those guys nor their businesses.

The POW Network is overloaded with this type of character, those who polish their records into gold, and their adventures. The real shame is many of them were actually in the Military at one time but they later went into overdrive around some campfire and the rest is history.

As far as I know, Mick and Duane are the only two members of the Knife Community listed in the "Phonies Index" linked below, along with a couple apologies from their new association members.


http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm

http://www.pownetwork.org/


Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:33:42 -0600
To All it May Concern:

I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely apologize to all those I have insulted and misled by my extensive false claims of military service and achievements. I regret that I have taken the liberty to try to be someone, and something I never was. Your summary of my non-accomplishments is accurate.None of my listed claims are valid or truthful. It is most humiliating to be exposed as a fake and "wannabe", and at the suggestion of someone I betrayed, I submit this apology. I hope that you accept this total confession of my fraudulently claimed achievements.

All my lies were of the nature of verbal barroom bragging and deception, and not for monetary or political gain. Yet a liar is a liar.

My truthful military history was entering the WI Army National Guard as a PVT in 1965, discharge from the USAR in 1976 and concurrent commissioning to 1LT, and transfer to the Retired Reserve in 1988 as a CPT (Armor Branch).

My e-mail address is a play on the Texas Rangers, a nickname I had as a police officer many years ago; and not a reference to an unearned military award.

Yours truly,

Andrew S. Kubash Jr.
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I Elton B. Murphy am a Liar. After a feeble attempt at BUDS in 1986. I rang the bell and dropped on request long before Hell Week. I began my lies just after that. My next duty station was at Long Beach, LHA5. After a short peroid. I went UA I was so for about 4 months. During that time I did assault a man just south of San Francisco. I am very sorry . I apologize to that man and his family. I will pay any dues that, that I must. I am extremely sorry I did that. I was not in my right mind at all to do that.

At my end of my unautherized abscence I turned my self in. I was returned to LHA5. I was court martialed. Reduced in rank from E-5 to E-1, and spent 30 days in the brigg. I apoigize to the Taxpayers for my foolishness.

One entering the Civilian world I did tell many lies over a 16 year peroid. On a handful of occasions I led certain individuals to believe I was a NAVY SEAL. At least one individual did I try to convince I went on missions in Central America.

Most of the lies to most people was I attempted to become a NAVY SEAL I did not make it I got hypothermia during hell week. Because of my age of 28 years the BUDS cut off age I would not be able to roll over into another class. But I continued the lie to say. They allowed me to stay on as a Photographer. which I did for 1 1/2 years. I worked for SEAL TEAMS One Three and five.

The other lie was that I hang out and partied with some of the SEALS and they taught me a few things about protecting myself.

I would like to apologize to all US NAVY SEALS alive who have served this great country. I do appreciate the freedom you have helped to maintain for Americans. I want to apoligize to the NAVY SEALS who died in service of this country and their families. God bless them.

I apologize to the Hillsborough County Sheriffs dept. and the NAVY SEALS I was not attacked by masked men at gunpoint, another lie.

I want to apologize to all Military Personnel active and otherwise. I have lied I am ashamed. Please accept my appology. I do appreciate your service and sacrifice.

To all persons, including family members to whom I have lied to about my military experiences.I am sorry. Please forgive me. Instead of working harder to achieve real achievements, I made them up.

To any persons over the years I have threatened, I mean you no harm. To all persons involved with helping to show me the error of my ways, thanks, I appreciate your efforts. I mean you no harm. I hold no hard feelings toward you. Forgive me if you have felt threatened.

I have named all of the worse deeds that I have done. To fellow humanity. Except a few of personal nature. I mean in the ramance area and marital areas of my life.

I will not be telling any more lies to the public about my military experiences. I feel no need to share with the world in writing about my phony SEAL experiences in books or otherwise. Or of the experiences leading up to this letter of apology.

I would like the opportunity when given the chance to try to make up for my mistakes to Society. I will obtain counseling to help in that endeavor. I would like to serve my country in the future to help keep it free. I support our War against Terrorism!

Sincerely,

Elton B. Murphy LIAR
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