Super polished edges

3.5 xm18 20° per side, will drop it 17° per side or more next time when i have more time.
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Somewhat new to knife collecting here are a few that I picked up recently.

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Scrim said:
Question for you guys: I was emailing with Ben Dale (owner/inventor of Edge Pro) and he told me the Shapton 8k I got from Chefknoivestogo.com (before talking with him) doesn't wear but also doesn't cut well, just fills up with filings & slurry, clogging it quickly AND it's really only equivalent to his 1K grit stone. He says his stones wear away properly, thus exposes new,fresh grit, thus will always cut well (better) because of that. Does this match the experiences you've had with the Shapton 8k? I got kind of bummed out & now feel like I need to get his 4k Edge Pro stone to get a stone that wears & cuts & refines correctly/better and will actually give me finer results than the Shapton 8K AND his 2K, 4K & 6K polishing tapes. Your thoughts? :confused:
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Don't be confused, it's called a sales pitch.

The biggest problem when discussing "grit" is the number thrown around with it. Everyone has their own system to grade grit or even multiple systems within the same country. Shapton, Naniwa, Edge pro and many more all use different abrasives and grading scales to give a number to their specific grit of stone. For example: In the US we have ANSI, in Japan they have JIS (but there is a new and old specification), and in Europe they have FEPA-P and FEPA-F.

So you have Ben with his EP stones following the FEPA-F, Naniwa Chosera following the old JIS standard, and Shapton following the new JIS but in MESH. And to make it even more confusing we are not even discussing Binder, stone hardness, abrasive release rate, wear, or what the stones actually do when working. Hell, you could be using the stone wrong and not even know it. Japanese waterstones are not something you master overnight.

Some waterstones load, its how they work. It's a common trait of high grit waterstones.
 
Jason B. said:
Don't be confused, it's called a sales pitch.

The biggest problem when discussing "grit" is the number thrown around with it. Everyone has their own system to grade grit or even multiple systems within the same country. Shapton, Naniwa, Edge pro and many more all use different abrasives and grading scales to give a number to their specific grit of stone. For example: In the US we have ANSI, in Japan they have JIS (but there is a new and old specification), and in Europe they have FEPA-P and FEPA-F.

So you have Ben with his EP stones following the FEPA-F, Naniwa Chosera following the old JIS standard, and Shapton following the new JIS but in MESH. And to make it even more confusing we are not even discussing Binder, stone hardness, abrasive release rate, wear, or what the stones actually do when working. Hell, you could be using the stone wrong and not even know it. Japanese waterstones are not something you master overnight.

Some waterstones load, its how they work. It's a common trait of high grit waterstones.
Click to expand...

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Thanks, Jason B. You're 100% correct and I appreciate your insights! But can I ask your opinion on one thing. Since my new Shapton 10k seems to load up fast, based on what you mentioned about certain water stones loading up (I assume you mean rather quickly) should I keep 100% of the slurry that forms SO quickly, and use it during that phase...or clean it off a bit (maybe 50%)...as I have been doing. Am I making my mirror polished edge harder to achieve by trying to keep the 10k a little cleaner during use. It just seems to get SO dark (load up faster & more intensely then the EP stones) VERY quickly. I've been concerned it was getting quickly clogged and less effective, especially after talking with Ben Dale.

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You can reduce some of the loading by the amount of pressure used. The Shapton Glass are like diamond stones in that they need almost no pressure to work. Using more water could help too. As long as the edge is not sticking to the surface or loaded to the point it looks gray and metallic you are good, these stones will load and need to be lapped before their next use, totally normal.

If your progression is solid then the loading experienced on the 10k should be adding to the final polish of the edge. It has a burnishing affect which gives the edge a more glossy appearance. Though way more complex it's the basic workings of waterstones, the grit "breaks down" becoming finer so each stone has a grit range it works in. When using waterstones only add water, do not flush the slurry unless contaminated and do not condition the surface unless absolutely needed.
 
Jason B. said:
You can reduce some of the loading by the amount of pressure used. The Shapton Glass are like diamond stones in that they need almost no pressure to work. Using more water could help too. As long as the edge is not sticking to the surface or loaded to the point it looks gray and metallic you are good, these stones will load and need to be lapped before their next use, totally normal.

If your progression is solid then the loading experienced on the 10k should be adding to the final polish of the edge. It has a burnishing affect which gives the edge a more glossy appearance. Though way more complex it's the basic workings of waterstones, the grit "breaks down" becoming finer so each stone has a grit range it works in. When using waterstones only add water, do not flush the slurry unless contaminated and do not condition the surface unless absolutely needed.
Click to expand...

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Thanks again, Jason. Very useful info. Much appreciated.:thumbup:
 
Jason B, May I ask you one more? Would you use the Shapton 8k then the Chosera 10k after the 2k, 3k & 6k EP polishing tapes? I just added the 8k & 10k stones to my progression, but due to the funky grit charts & variables/conversions...AND the fact that I get a pretty damn nice polished edge after my EP stones (up to 1k) followed by the 3 different polishing tapes...I wonder if I'd be taking a step backwards by then going to my 2 newest stones (again, after the 3 tapes).

I just remembered one more, if I may...Can I lap the Shapton 8k with the usual EP round glass base, water & a sprinkle of Silicon Carbide, in your opinion? I did today after asking Mike at Chefknivestogo.com (where I bought the Shapton) that question. He said yes, I can go straight to new/fresh Silicon Carbide. I did & my Shapton 8k is flat, white & clean again but feels a bit rougher than when brand new, completely smooth & glass-like. Did I ruin it, improve it or do I just need to use a different lapping method to get back the original, glass like feel to the stone's surface? :confused:
 
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Scrim,

I understand you are asking for a reference opinion from Jason related to grit progressions, but thought these references might be of value to you.

Comparison of referenced grits to a standardized Micron sizing taken from reference document attached below below (see 2nd page). May help in answering your questions (hopefully).

Values are approximations, and I would presume do not account for swarf clogging of a stones surface (that can potentially reduce cutting ability).

Micron Grit Referenced
1.84m Shapton 8k
1.47m Chosera 10k
9m EP 2k
3m EP 3k
1m EP 6k

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Regards,
 
As for lapping, use a finer powder. 220 grit works for fine stones.

Surface texture is important with Shapton stones.
 
Scrim said:
Beautiful edge, Bobby. I'm a fan of that natural/Jade G10 too.:thumbup: Is there a micro bevel on it?
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Thanks bud, and no its currently at 40° inclusive. (From 54°) i didn't have the time to keep grinding that 20cv down to 30-34° lol figure the next session I'll finish it off. Still plenty sharp thou.
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And yea I've been on a jade/ natural g10 kick lately lol. Just digging the look.
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