Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

craytab said:
Hmm...

I'm not sure what "to contaviene" is. Perhaps you can explain.
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Oh that was a typo. I meant to type contravene.

craytab said:
I didn't answer your question because it is stupid
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I'm sure you've got a lot of mileage out of calling anything you disagree with or dislike stupid.

craytab said:
You still have not explained how me answering that question would be uncomfortable for me.
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Hey I can use a page out of your playbook and say something like you would be too dumb to understand.
craytab said:
Spark has wisely decided to not allow them to directly promote their business here.
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Wise decision indeed.
craytab said:
And further, the membership here has shunned them and their supporters when the topic comes up.
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And it's probably just Guy that buys their knives when they pop up.
 
ncrockclimb said:
Troll and a shill.

edit to add - S!K wants this thread to go away. S!K cannot make that happen. However, S!K fansbois can disrupt it. AbjectTestament is not here to add to the discussion. He is a troll and doing all he can to derail this thread.
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Oh look, still responding to me. Big surprise lol
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Didn't you try to argue that people not seeking legal redress against Survive were enabling them
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100%. I think it's enabling behavior for Survive! to continue to take advantage of customers.

Insipid Moniker said:
but now your position is that you directly ordering from them and talking positively about their knives isn't enabling?
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No. I'm not too sure what's with the insistence in this thread on putting words in other people's mouths to make strawman arguments.

Me or anyone else buying directly from them 100% enables them to both stay in business and take advantage of customers.

Insipid Moniker said:
Sounds like you're just a weak hypocrite desperately trying to avoid taking any responsibility for your own actions.
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Sounds like you and others like you need to make strawmen to win arguments.
 
AbjectTestament said:
Speaking of 4.7s I have one of their new Magnacut ones on pre-order. Reading about the latest issues maybe my luck will finally run out and I'll join the waited 5 years for a Survive knife club.
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AbjectTestament said:
Me or anyone else buying directly from them 100% enables them to both stay in business and take advantage of customers.
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I admit I'm only half paying attention to this thread, but you seem to be contraveining yourself.
 
r8shell said:
I admit I'm only half paying attention to this thread, but you seem to be contraveining yourself.
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I don't see how you've come to that conclusion.

I'm fine with buying from Survive! regardless of their history because I like their knives and I've made no excuse for that. Is it enabling them? Sure.

I think they're sorting out their production. I've had a few knives come in within a 7 month timeline but I think that's more luck and knowing when to buy, overall their delivery times are still garbage. That promise to get everything shipped by Christmas was a bald-faced lie.

I took a risk on a couple more preorders but I'd rather buy secondhand or when they have extras. I don't recommend anyone risk pre-ordering from them. My comment about joining the 5-year club was contemplating maybe my luck will run out, that's all.
 
AbjectTestament said:
Sounds like you and others like you need to make strawmen to win arguments.
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Hmm....

AbjectTestament said:
Someone buying directly from Survive! is terrible and enables their continued ripping off of customers.
Someone selling their knives privately, and in the process of doing so contributing to their marketing and exposure, is fine.
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Speaking of making something up to justify your own argument.
 
AbjectTestament said:
I could just as easily argue that my money is enabling Survive! to make progress on their ridiculously overdue orders.
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AbjectTestament said:
Not at all.
Someone buying directly from Survive! is terrible and enables their continued ripping off of customers.
Someone selling their knives privately, and in the process of doing so contributing to their marketing and exposure, is fine.
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Just watching these ethical gymnastics.
 
AbjectTestament said:
Not at all.
Someone buying directly from Survive! is terrible and enables their continued ripping off of customers.
Someone selling their knives privately, and in the process of doing so contributing to their marketing and exposure, is fine.

It doesn't bother me any, just interesting watching the ethical gymnastics.
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Uhhh, yes you are. Are you even reading what you post?

In this post, you say that someone selling their own personal item is marketing and giving exposure for the company and in your previous post said that action is further enabling Survives behavior.

That is placing the blame of furthering their issues on people other than Survive.



AbjectTestament said:
Suppose Survive! really screwed up their production projections and capabilities (accurate, right?) and it came down to a decision. If they stop taking pre-orders then they wouldn't have the money to finish their preorders and backlogs. If they keep taking pre-orders then they can eventually get them out.

Should they have stopped taking pre-orders and just gone bankrupt? Or should they keep taking money and dragging the cycle of pre-order and agonizingly slow production and delivery?

When faced with those two hard turns what's the ethical choice?
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Did it come down to one hard either or decision? Considering how this all played out, with all the "changes" and promises they made and failed too keep over a span of years, I highly doubt that.

What they should have done was stop adding fuel to their own fire. Perhaps by stop spending the time and money on stupid crap like CAD drawings for multiple different fixed blades and a couple of folders and put all your money into actually making the knives that people have paid for. That and stop blaming everyone else, would be a good start.


And think on the questions you ask above. They are taking pre-orders now for new knives they have to make, to pay for the production of the knives they have already taken money for and have not produced. How does that work in the end to make everyone that has paid for a knife whole?
 
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(Sorry if this has already been addressed and I missed it or forgot.)

A side note, when you go to their "Folder Email List" to request a notification on when news of it comes out, they have a few different options to select for the folder.

Which model are you interested in? *
F1
F2
Axis lock design we've been hiding
Axis lock - lightweight version
All of the above


Anyone notice anything?
 
AbjectTestament said:
It doesn't bother me any, just interesting watching the ethical gymnastics.
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AbjectTestament said:
Suppose Survive! really screwed up their production projections and capabilities (accurate, right?) and it came down to a decision. If they stop taking pre-orders then they wouldn't have the money to finish their preorders and backlogs. If they keep taking pre-orders then they can eventually get them out.
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You realize you wrote these two statements in the same post?

How would you feel if you paid a construction contractor a down payment to start work, and they used it to buy the materials for a late job they are already past due on?

You’d sue the f**k out of them, right?
 
benchwarmer380 said:
(Sorry if this has already been addressed and I missed it or forgot.)

A side note, when you go to their "Folder Email List" to request a notification on when news of it comes out, they have a few different options to select for the folder.

Which model are you interested in? *
F1
F2
Axis lock design we've been hiding
Axis lock - lightweight version
All of the above


Anyone notice anything?
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Are they licensing the Axis lock trade mark now?
 
benchwarmer380 said:
That is placing the blame of furthering their issues on people other than Survive.
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I think there's some enabling behavior to go around (which I'm admitting to be a party to) but at the end of the day Survive! is ultimately responsible for their actions (and inaction).

Even if they were as chronically unlucky as they make themselves out to be at one point they need to ask themselves if they're the problem.
benchwarmer380 said:
What they should have done was stop adding fuel to their own fire. Perhaps by stop spending the time and money on stupid crap like CAD drawings for multiple different fixed blades and a couple of folders and put all your money into actually making the knives that people have paid for. That and stop blaming everyone else, would be a good start.
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I completely agree with you.
benchwarmer380 said:
And think on the questions you ask above. They are taking pre-orders now for new knives they have to make, to pay for the production of the knives they have already taken money for and have not produced. How does that work in the end to make everyone that has paid for a knife whole?
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I don't really understand your question but they really seem like a ponzi scheme to me. Making a video where they said they would fight buyers asking for a refund "tooth and nail" was crazy. Restocking fee? Once again I'm shocked no one has taken them to court and they're still in good standing with Visa.
 
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