Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[EngrSorenson]

I’ll put the Op on ignore so I can’t see the thread and move along.

I’m pretty sure Boru13 could just thread ban you if that’s what he thought was in the best interest of the forum. You know… take all that self control and choice out of the equation.

you strike me as one of those, “no, I’m breaking up with you first!” types.

 

[StoneAndSteel]

I think the problem is more that they aren't selling knives: they're selling hope of a knife.

If that were the case... no one would get their knives.

No, that is the case. Because not everyone IS getting the knives they paid for. S!K is selling hope in the same way that a state lottery sells hope. In a state lottery SOME will get what they are hoping for... others will not. The difference between S!K's model and that of a state lottery is that the state lottery admits the odds and that the buyer is assuming the risk. Further a state lottery puts usually puts its profits toward some sort of public service... S!K....?

 

[Boru13]

Why wait? Is there something you’d like to tell me?

Why wait, because I was under the impression you were leaving the thread… boring, see ya when I see ya, etc.

Since you insist, I’ll indulge you.

Your thoughts on SK!, this thread or members who have been posting in it for years mean’s little to me.

You have a right to your opinion and whether I agree or not, I do respect it.

You also have a right to post in this thread… too a point. Once it becomes a trolling festival on your part, you lose that right. One of your first interactions with me when you started posting in this thread again was too inform me that I was post #4… astute observation on your part.

What you failed to acknowledge though was my post had nothing to do with SK!, instead it was to give a member a status update on their thread… that’s part of my job as a moderator and while it was minor trolling on your part, nonetheless it was still trolling.

All that being said, now I’m going to tell you what I have a problem with and one which you will cease doing.

I’ve had my fill of the victim card, veiled threats of being banned bullshit that you have repeatedly posted.

No moderator has threatened to ban you because of your opinion, if you disagree feel free to quote it.

Personally I think this victim card crap is nothing more than a weak ass attempt at provoking, antagonizing, trolling the mod staff and as I’ve already stated, I’ve had my fill of it and it will cease.

You have a nice day.

 

[palonej]

Mic drop!!

 

[Infi-del]

Why wait, because I was under the impression you were leaving the thread… boring, see ya when I see ya, etc.

I was but you addressed me. Being a mod I chose to address whatever you might have to tell me, being a staff member.

Since you insist, I’ll indulge you.

Your thoughts on SK!, this thread or members who have been posting in it for years mean’s little to me.

You have a right to your opinion and whether I agree or not, I do respect it.

You also have a right to post in this thread… too a point. Once it becomes a trolling festival on your part, you lose that right. One of your first interactions with me when you started posting in this thread again was too inform me that I was post #4… astute observation on your part.

What you failed to acknowledge though was my post had nothing to do with SK!, instead it was to give a member a status update on their thread… that’s part of my job as a moderator and while it was minor trolling on your part, nonetheless it was still trolling.

It seems having an unpopular opinion can be counted as trolling at will. What is the line? I've not called people names. I've tried not to question someone's character simply because I don't like their point of view. I've tried my best to disagree in a respectful manner. I certainly haven't made gay jokes about members that disagree with me. I just want to know when disagreeing becomes "trolling". It's defined in the rules as disrupting threads or upsetting members... well people in this thread get all kinds of upset if you aren't on the agreed upon side of the argument. Just seems vague. Would appreciate clarification.

All that being said, now I’m going to tell you what I have a problem with and one which you will cease doing.

I’ve had my fill of the victim card, veiled threats of being banned bullshit that you have repeatedly posted.

No moderator has threatened to ban you because of your opinion, if you disagree feel free to quote it.

Personally I think this victim card crap is nothing more than a weak ass attempt at provoking, antagonizing, trolling the mod staff and as I’ve already stated, I’ve had my fill of it and it will cease.

I never said a moderator threatened to ban me. But the picture this thread paints is that you personally side with the members here that hate SK!. That you are all a collective... and when I see you tell one member "I won't make that mistake again" referring to banning them... and then I see other members make either direct threats that I should be banned or just veiled ones (meaning suggesting it without actually saying as such to lend to deniability) and they go unchecked... it paints the picture that the ban hammer is an option for some... but not for all depending on what side of the discussion you're on. Here are some direct replies to me that gave me the idea that participating on the "wrong side" of this thread might get me banned...

Keep this up, you won’t be checking back in on any thread here in a year.

Me thinks someone is looking for a Survive! Fanboy Badge of Honor (read a Blade forums Ban.)

You are either a shill or the perfect target for Guy and Ellie. You know where you are, and you have been warned.

I tell you what... it might be immoral to ban this jerk without cause, but I think if he doesn't care maybe we shouldn't either.

I’m pretty sure Boru13 could just thread ban you if that’s what he thought was in the best interest of the forum.

Now... perhaps I'm just making poor assumptions. But one definitely get's the feeling there is a target on their back if they don't go with the mob here. Maybe suggest members stop making threats (veiled or otherwise) like that? But I will heed your warning and not comment that I feel someone is making a threat (veiled or otherwise) that I'll be banned for having an unpopular opinion.

You also have a nice day.

 

[Quiet]

I was but you addressed me. Being a mod I chose to address whatever you might have to tell me, being a staff member.



It seems having an unpopular opinion can be counted as trolling at will. What is the line? I've not called people names. I've tried not to question someone's character simply because I don't like their point of view. I've tried my best to disagree in a respectful manner. I certainly haven't made gay jokes about members that disagree with me. I just want to know when disagreeing becomes "trolling". It's defined in the rules as disrupting threads or upsetting members... well people in this thread get all kinds of upset if you aren't on the agreed upon side of the argument. Just seems vague. Would appreciate clarification.




I never said a moderator threatened to ban me. But the picture this thread paints is that you personally side with the members here that hate SK!. That you are all a collective... and when I see you tell one member "I won't make that mistake again" referring to banning them... and then I see other members make either direct threats that I should be banned or just veiled ones (meaning suggesting it without actually saying as such to lend to deniability) and they go unchecked... it paints the picture that the ban hammer is an option for some... but not for all depending on what side of the discussion you're on. Here are some direct replies to me that gave me the idea that participating on the "wrong side" of this thread might get me banned...












Now... perhaps I'm just making poor assumptions. But one definitely get's the feeling there is a target on their back if they don't go with the mob here. Maybe suggest members stop making threats (veiled or otherwise) like that? But I will heed your warning and not comment that I feel someone is making a threat (veiled or otherwise) that I'll be banned for having an unpopular opinion.

You also have a nice day.

I love how you came in here trying to shut this thread down with your condescending overlord act, and are now acting like a crybaby victim after you've been called on it by, well everyone*. Wow. I mean, entirely expected, but still.

Wow.


*Well, except for the other two S?K shills.

 

[bonky]

I was but you addressed me. Being a mod I chose to address whatever you might have to tell me, being a staff member.



It seems having an unpopular opinion can be counted as trolling at will. What is the line? I've not called people names. I've tried not to question someone's character simply because I don't like their point of view. I've tried my best to disagree in a respectful manner. I certainly haven't made gay jokes about members that disagree with me. I just want to know when disagreeing becomes "trolling". It's defined in the rules as disrupting threads or upsetting members... well people in this thread get all kinds of upset if you aren't on the agreed upon side of the argument. Just seems vague. Would appreciate clarification.




I never said a moderator threatened to ban me. But the picture this thread paints is that you personally side with the members here that hate SK!. That you are all a collective... and when I see you tell one member "I won't make that mistake again" referring to banning them... and then I see other members make either direct threats that I should be banned or just veiled ones (meaning suggesting it without actually saying as such to lend to deniability) and they go unchecked... it paints the picture that the ban hammer is an option for some... but not for all depending on what side of the discussion you're on. Here are some direct replies to me that gave me the idea that participating on the "wrong side" of this thread might get me banned...












Now... perhaps I'm just making poor assumptions. But one definitely get's the feeling there is a target on their back if they don't go with the mob here. Maybe suggest members stop making threats (veiled or otherwise) like that? But I will heed your warning and not comment that I feel someone is making a threat (veiled or otherwise) that I'll be banned for having an unpopular opinion.

You also have a nice day.

Funny, but you're still doing the same "victim" act by parsing your quotes to fit your narrative.

The one you quoted from me in its entirety, for example:

"Exactly my point.
As long as you got yours, why worry about anyone else until it happens to YOU.
You are either a shill or the perfect target for Guy and Ellie. You know where you are, and you have been warned.
Good luck."

This message was in response to your stating you received what you ordered, and that what happened to others was none of your concern.

It was a warning against continued business with Survive, and nothing else.

 

[Infi-del]

I'll move along.

 

[Hashishiin]

Always interesting to find a long-running thread that has developed its own micro-conversations, schisms, arguments... Alliances are made and broken here on the hallowed and steel-sullied grounds of Survive! Knives feedback thread, littered with the corpses of hundreds of knife orders, dead, bands of Desperadoes and bounty hunters tangle with the only law we have 'round these parts...

So, my opinion is going to be based around what I would do if I was in a situation like "Surivive!", though nobody decent could be. It seems that these fellows created a hype or buzz around themselves, and failed people in a few different ways. They failed to deliver, when production knives weren't produced, from what I skimmed, on the order of "years". They very well could have done this with integrity and honor, but chose to move along with lies and censorship of those warning potential customers of the state of things. Also, from skimming, this is something they have tried to do more than once, essentially sucker people out of some money for a run of knives that's been paid for, or is waiting to be paid for.

Am I on the money, or anywhere close? I did not read 120 pages, but I read some essential stuff and the links from Sharp/Firey. Here is my question: let's say I started "Shah Shankwork" and took a bunch of your money, over and over again. Why would I be able to come back, after being dishonest in my business practices, disrespectful to my customers, and sell more knives? "I can prove production is in works, I can get you all XYZ"... yeah, but why risk it again with someone who does bad things? Everyone already knows my game. What, are you going to begrudgingly buy a knife from them?! I understand if you already have something on order - this is principle. If I show willingness to lie or defraud my customers once, what would stop me from doing it again, maybe in an even worse way that is dangerous to user?

I read someone say something like "Why should they even care about getting their backorders filled when they know they are hated in the community and unlikely to be forgiven?", paraphrasing. This is the most selfish type of thinking - this is the image people who think capitalism is bad have in the head. Cause it happens. Whether or not the persons behind Survive do have their names forever sullied in the knife community and must move on, or whether they can be given another chance to be honest knifemakers, they should, out of principle, decide to make some honorable or at least honest business moves like paying back the people they have seemed to defraud of money.

I made a custom order out of Russia right when the war started. My shipment got blown up en-route to me (probably not but cooler to imagine that way) but I did not know that, he told me it would be fast-arriving (as it was on track to be the way he sent it). But that happened, war happened, he had to totally ditch his shop and start new in Finland, with only 1 CNC machine now. When I reached out to him on Instagram two weeks ago, he had not got the new shop set up yet, just pics of his work, so I was suspicious, did not know if he would reply. Gave all my proof, gave all my info.

The guy did not deliver, but through no fault of his own. He finds this out, and is profusely apologetic, offering to refund my order or make again at no additional costs. I choose remake, purely because of his attitude, his telling me the whole story. Even after I told him that he has convinced me things will be fine this time around, he still continues to update me with photos of the workshop/the work and assure me he has not forgotten about me. This is a guy who makes up for mistakes and goes above and beyond; this is integrity, and this will have me a life-customer. I will not spend money on a knife begrudgingly or with distrust to the maker, custom or production. I want to enjoy what I'm doing, not basically police the company who's making it. That doesn't sound fun.

I wonder how somebody has the energy to do a job like moderate BF. I wonder, do they eventually get to reading/skimming every post with eyes? I think so, it does not seem electronically aided (maybe it buzzes on some very extreme words). Labor of love. Eh, it's more rewarding than being a Reddit mod. Of course a mod is kind of like a cop and you need to go "Ugh, okay mod, I'll shut up" sometimes, but they're usually pretty cool if you don't go like... "I THOUGHT THIS WAS 'MERICA, YOU GOING TO BAN ME NOW, YA BABY?"

Any TL;DR of the Survive! situation if there's anything I missed is appreciated. Sorry to those who lost money.

 

[tinfoil hat timmy]

so. I need this part for my car. I ordered it and it's now ready for pickup.

I guess it's not that hard to charge someone for something and then give it to them in a speedy timeframe.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Always interesting to find a long-running thread that has developed its own micro-conversations, schisms, arguments... Alliances are made and broken here on the hallowed and steel-sullied grounds of Survive! Knives feedback thread, littered with the corpses of hundreds of knife orders, dead, bands of Desperadoes and bounty hunters tangle with the only law we have 'round these parts...

So, my opinion is going to be based around what I would do if I was in a situation like "Surivive!", though nobody decent could be. It seems that these fellows created a hype or buzz around themselves, and failed people in a few different ways. They failed to deliver, when production knives weren't produced, from what I skimmed, on the order of "years". They very well could have done this with integrity and honor, but chose to move along with lies and censorship of those warning potential customers of the state of things. Also, from skimming, this is something they have tried to do more than once, essentially sucker people out of some money for a run of knives that's been paid for, or is waiting to be paid for.

Am I on the money, or anywhere close? I did not read 120 pages, but I read some essential stuff and the links from Sharp/Firey. Here is my question: let's say I started "Shah Shankwork" and took a bunch of your money, over and over again. Why would I be able to come back, after being dishonest in my business practices, disrespectful to my customers, and sell more knives? "I can prove production is in works, I can get you all XYZ"... yeah, but why risk it again with someone who does bad things? Everyone already knows my game. What, are you going to begrudgingly buy a knife from them?! I understand if you already have something on order - this is principle. If I show willingness to lie or defraud my customers once, what would stop me from doing it again, maybe in an even worse way that is dangerous to user?

I read someone say something like "Why should they even care about getting their backorders filled when they know they are hated in the community and unlikely to be forgiven?", paraphrasing. This is the most selfish type of thinking - this is the image people who think capitalism is bad have in the head. Cause it happens. Whether or not the persons behind Survive do have their names forever sullied in the knife community and must move on, or whether they can be given another chance to be honest knifemakers, they should, out of principle, decide to make some honorable or at least honest business moves like paying back the people they have seemed to defraud of money.

I made a custom order out of Russia right when the war started. My shipment got blown up en-route to me (probably not but cooler to imagine that way) but I did not know that, he told me it would be fast-arriving (as it was on track to be the way he sent it). But that happened, war happened, he had to totally ditch his shop and start new in Finland, with only 1 CNC machine now. When I reached out to him on Instagram two weeks ago, he had not got the new shop set up yet, just pics of his work, so I was suspicious, did not know if he would reply. Gave all my proof, gave all my info.

The guy did not deliver, but through no fault of his own. He finds this out, and is profusely apologetic, offering to refund my order or make again at no additional costs. I choose remake, purely because of his attitude, his telling me the whole story. Even after I told him that he has convinced me things will be fine this time around, he still continues to update me with photos of the workshop/the work and assure me he has not forgotten about me. This is a guy who makes up for mistakes and goes above and beyond; this is integrity, and this will have me a life-customer. I will not spend money on a knife begrudgingly or with distrust to the maker, custom or production. I want to enjoy what I'm doing, not basically police the company who's making it. That doesn't sound fun.

I wonder how somebody has the energy to do a job like moderate BF. I wonder, do they eventually get to reading/skimming every post with eyes? I think so, it does not seem electronically aided (maybe it buzzes on some very extreme words). Labor of love. Eh, it's more rewarding than being a Reddit mod. Of course a mod is kind of like a cop and you need to go "Ugh, okay mod, I'll shut up" sometimes, but they're usually pretty cool if you don't go like... "I THOUGHT THIS WAS 'MERICA, YOU GOING TO BAN ME NOW, YA BABY?"

Any TL;DR of the Survive! situation if there's anything I missed is appreciated. Sorry to those who lost money.

You didn’t read 120 pages but expect us to read all that!? Sheesh.

 

[Hashishiin]

You didn’t read 120 pages but expect us to read all that!? Sheesh.

You're right. BladeForums should probably institute a 300 character limit.

 

[Pàdruig]

But I do find the constant crying and moaning by people that have no skin in the game hilarious.

I'm not sure if you're in this thread still or not but I'll reiterate a point that I have made a number of times over the years since I divested myself of any interest in Survive's products.

One could say that I lack proper "skin in the game" as I have never ordered directly from Survive! - both of my examples (long gone now) were obtained secondary. That said, I found the 4.7 to be a superb knife - an excellently designed everyday belt knife that garnered a lot of positive attention from those that I showed it off to. I disagree with Quiet in the sense that I never saw this as just a mediocre knife (that's ok, he and I are friends and are known to disagree from time to time). It was a great knife and had I not moved on and found (honest) companies I'd rather support, I'd still have one on my belt.

Where it hits hardest for me is this: There shouldn't be any question that their "popularity" is driven by sound designs and reasonably good craftsmanship - their sub here was a hoppin' place. However, I cannot, in good conscience, ever feel any pride in owning any of their products. My skin in the game is that I can no longer enjoy a good product because of Survive's failure to take ownership of their issues, act with integrity and cease their horrendous business model, and make good on all of their outstanding orders. It comes down to their complete lack of integrity. It matters not if they have the best blades in the world - if one lies, obfuscates, and/or refuses to own their mistakes and do better, they won't get my business.

If memory serves, towards the end of their time here, Ellie straight up admitted that their business model was flawed and that they would no longer take pre-orders. It wasn't but a few months later (if not sooner) that they were back at it, taking pre-orders - probably because they needed the cash. I don't know about anyone else here but I dislike being lied to.

To answer your earlier question - no, there isn't anything that they can do that will repair their image in my eyes. This thread serves the purpose of being a perpetual banner that highlights their ongoing lack of integrity.

 

[EngrSorenson]

S!K sucks.

 

[000Robert]

S!K sucks.

It does seem that way. I'll never buy one of their knives.

 

[Infi-del]

I'm not sure if you're in this thread still or not but I'll reiterate a point that I have made a number of times over the years since I divested myself of any interest in Survive's products.

One could say that I lack proper "skin in the game" as I have never ordered directly from Survive! - both of my examples (long gone now) were obtained secondary. That said, I found the 4.7 to be a superb knife - an excellently designed everyday belt knife that garnered a lot of positive attention from those that I showed it off to. I disagree with Quiet in the sense that I never saw this as just a mediocre knife (that's ok, he and I are friends and are known to disagree from time to time). It was a great knife and had I not moved on and found (honest) companies I'd rather support, I'd still have one on my belt.

As you are addressing me with a thoughtful post I will respond. Though I'm not really looking to jump back into the mix in this thread at this time.

Where it hits hardest for me is this: There shouldn't be any question that their "popularity" is driven by sound designs and reasonably good craftsmanship - their sub here was a hoppin' place. However, I cannot, in good conscience, ever feel any pride in owning any of their products. My skin in the game is that I can no longer enjoy a good product because of Survive's failure to take ownership of their issues, act with integrity and cease their horrendous business model, and make good on all of their outstanding orders. It comes down to their complete lack of integrity. It matters not if they have the best blades in the world - if one lies, obfuscates, and/or refuses to own their mistakes and do better, they won't get my business.

If memory serves, towards the end of their time here, Ellie straight up admitted that their business model was flawed and that they would no longer take pre-orders. It wasn't but a few months later (if not sooner) that they were back at it, taking pre-orders - probably because they needed the cash. I don't know about anyone else here but I dislike being lied to.

I can understand your point of view as there are certain things I own that I do take great pride in ownership of. Most of them have some kind of sentimental value. That being said, that's not a necessity for me when it comes to most things. For example... I own a few Makita drills that I love. I use them constantly. I bought them because they're good tools. I don't have a need to show them to someone and say with pride "Look... I have a Makita". And I also have no idea what Makita as a company does in it's business dealings. It may have screwed thousands of people over... I have no idea. It may be using child slave labor in China to manufacture it's products... I don't know. It may have taken millions in PPP money that it didn't need, that could have helped save a lot of small businesses. Couldn't tell you. But it's a good tool. I enjoy using it. And it works well. I'm sure Apple has done questionable things... I really enjoy my iPhone. No clue what goes on at Dewalt, or Klipsch, or Fender Guitars, Honda, Samsung, Sony, Scag Mowers, etc... But I use and enjoy their products every single day. And that also means I'm not necessarily a loyal customer either. If I find something that does the job better... I'll get it. I'm no SK! Fanboy... I don't like their new line... just doesn't feel good in my hand. And if I find something I like better than their older stuff... I'll replace them (with the exception of one that was a birthday gift from my chick). And I bet if we're all honest... we all are using products daily made by companies that have probably done terrible things that we COULD find out if it were really THAT big of an issue... but we don't... because we don't care. We just want it to work as advertised. Now for those that have been wronged... I completely understand why they're upset and they have every right to be. But the rest just seems like selective outrage. I wonder if everyone participating in this thread does as much research and soul searching about the toothbrush they use everyday. I doubt it.

To answer your earlier question - no, there isn't anything that they can do that will repair their image in my eyes. This thread serves the purpose of being a perpetual banner that highlights their ongoing lack of integrity.

Fair enough. You are completely free to make that choice.

 

[AbjectTestament]

Guess I'll risk being banned and crawl back to this thread since the other Survive! thread was shut down and it would be logical to assume any other Survive! thread would likewise be shut down.


A quick read of the 2500 posts here will give everyone a solid idea of what's what when it comes to Survive!

It seems pretty common for many serial responders here to take comments out of context on purpose, or attack phantom arguments. Someone mentioned tilting at windmills; a great example.

It seems like this thread has gone from warning people about Survive! to being angry with anyone who doesn't hate them.

I'm a self-admitted and unapologetic fan of Survive! Knives and Guy based on my own experiences. And even then I'm still saying there's no excuse for the past behavior (nor should it be forgiven and forgotten), the past behavior is shady as hell, and people should be demanding their money back. It doesn't seem like anyone else here is suggesting they should be excused either. I don't see what the issue is. Surely no one here is against this thread being active and not buried so that you can continue to warn the world about Survive!, right?

 

[Pàdruig]

I can understand your point of view as there are certain things I own that I do take great pride in ownership of. Most of them have some kind of sentimental value. That being said, that's not a necessity for me when it comes to most things. For example... I own a few Makita drills that I love. I use them constantly. I bought them because they're good tools. I don't have a need to show them to someone and say with pride "Look... I have a Makita". And I also have no idea what Makita as a company does in it's business dealings. It may have screwed thousands of people over... I have no idea. It may be using child slave labor in China to manufacture it's products... I don't know. It may have taken millions in PPP money that it didn't need, that could have helped save a lot of small businesses. Couldn't tell you. But it's a good tool. I enjoy using it. And it works well. I'm sure Apple has done questionable things... I really enjoy my iPhone. No clue what goes on at Dewalt, or Klipsch, or Fender Guitars, Honda, Samsung, Sony, Scag Mowers, etc... But I use and enjoy their products every single day. And that also means I'm not necessarily a loyal customer either. If I find something that does the job better... I'll get it. I'm no SK! Fanboy... I don't like their new line... just doesn't feel good in my hand. And if I find something I like better than their older stuff... I'll replace them (with the exception of one that was a birthday gift from my chick). And I bet if we're all honest... we all are using products daily made by companies that have probably done terrible things that we COULD find out if it were really THAT big of an issue... but we don't... because we don't care. We just want it to work as advertised. Now for those that have been wronged... I completely understand why they're upset and they have every right to be. But the rest just seems like selective outrage. I wonder if everyone participating in this thread does as much research and soul searching about the toothbrush they use everyday. I doubt it.

Though I do understand your point and recognize that is where the majority of consumers are at, I feel that this sort of argument is intellectually lazy - it tends to get raised particularly every time someone has something against Chinese knives. The simple fact of the matter is: the individuals who have the time, patience, and energy to devote to establishing the integrity of every single corporation or manufacturer out there are likely few and far between. I'd also venture a guess that they aren't particularly happy folks either. However, I don't feel that's the point I am trying to make.

My take on it is this - barring obvious conflicts on the basis of ethical and/or moral grounds, I give companies the benefit of a doubt until something comes to light that would have me view them differently. Knives for us are a luxury, often made by smaller businesses and/or individual makers. It's easy enough to do the research and make those judgements accordingly. It's a lot more difficult when it comes to a large international entity like Makita, a Japanese manufacturer that operates factories all over the world - you could have tools made in China, or Brazil, or America, or elsewhere. Point being, it's a lot more convoluted so using that sort of premise as comparison to a small outfit like Survive! is a bit of a stretch.

Right now, I have outstanding pre-orders with Nathan Carothers. I trust Nathan and his crew but should there ever come a time when there is a breach of that trust and an unsavory repeatable pattern develops, then I will say bye-bye to all my CPKs. I don't expect that to ever happen - I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more trustworthy and transparent maker. There are a few makers like that here on BF, guys that I would have no problems cutting a check to because their word matters to them and they deliver what's promised (John from Redmeadow is another that comes to mind, as does Bill Siegle). With that in mind, why should I covet a knife from a maker that doesn't have my trust?

Fair enough. You are completely free to make that choice.

To expand on that point: Had Survive actually been honest with themselves and their customers/fans, they could have avoided all of this. Instead, Ellie opted for regular updates that involved vapid word salads and a heavy leaning on ridiculously obvious buzzwords. Relying on marketing mumbo-jumbo to try and kick the can further and further down the road only works for so long. A concise message of, "Hey, we got in over our heads and realize our approach is unsustainable. Books are closed for the indefinite future while we clear our backlog. Thank you for your patience" would have been far more appropriate. Instead, we got a lot of hot air and straight up lies.

If Survive came out today and said "Yeah, we know we f'd up, we own this" and then took demonstrable and measurable steps to productively and honestly turn things around, I still would not buy their knives but I will at least acknowledge that they turned over a new leaf. First thing that needs to happen (aside from clearing their absurd backlog) is to STOP TAKING PRE-ORDERS - they are literally begging from Peter to pay Paul. They have supposedly invested a lot of time, energy, money, and bad blood into getting their own manufacturing facility and equipment set up, they have no excuses now to not make batches of knives and offer said completed knives for sale after the fact.

No more bloody pre-orders, just stop.

It seems like this thread has gone from warning people about Survive! to being angry with anyone who doesn't hate them.

I don't have any issues with folks who want to come in here and argue against the premise of Survive being a dishonest business - no anger or hate here. State the facts as you know them and I will do the same. I will say, however, that though I concede that the knives are great, this is not the thread to gush over or criticize Survive's products - the point of this thread is to shine a big old spotlight on their business dealings until such a time that they demonstrate that they can make things right and maintain a proper heading.

I'd also add that if folks do have positive experiences with Survive (outside of the knives themselves), they should be welcome to share here. After all, if the company defies our expectations and actually changes course positively, that is good information to have available. You'll have to forgive me though if I don't hold my breath...

 

[toker]

It seems like this thread has gone from warning people about Survive! to being angry with anyone who doesn't hate them.

I'm a self-admitted and unapologetic fan of Survive! Knives and Guy based on my own experiences. And even then I'm still saying there's no excuse for the past behavior (nor should it be forgiven and forgotten), the past behavior is shady as hell, and people should be demanding their money back. It doesn't seem like anyone else here is suggesting they should be excused either. I don't see what the issue is. Surely no one here is against this thread being active and not buried so that you can continue to warn the world about Survive!, right?

No one cares if you're a Survive fanboy. But you're going to get called out on things that simply aren't true.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/about-the-hate-for-survive-knives.1881001/page-16#post-21419150

 

[bonky]

Guess I'll risk being banned and crawl back to this thread since the other Survive! thread was shut down and it would be logical to assume any other Survive! thread would likewise be shut down.


A quick read of the 2500 posts here will give everyone a solid idea of what's what when it comes to Survive!

It seems pretty common for many serial responders here to take comments out of context on purpose, or attack phantom arguments. Someone mentioned tilting at windmills; a great example.

It seems like this thread has gone from warning people about Survive! to being angry with anyone who doesn't hate them.

I'm a self-admitted and unapologetic fan of Survive! Knives and Guy based on my own experiences. And even then I'm still saying there's no excuse for the past behavior (nor should it be forgiven and forgotten), the past behavior is shady as hell, and people should be demanding their money back. It doesn't seem like anyone else here is suggesting they should be excused either. I don't see what the issue is. Surely no one here is against this thread being active and not buried so that you can continue to warn the world about Survive!, right?

The thread you're currently posting in is not the only thread discussing Survive's Ponzi tactics. If you don't see what the issue is with Guy&Ellie and their lies, here's a link to their legacy in Blade Forums for your perusal:

Survive in Hall of Shame