Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Pàdruig said:
Though I do understand your point and recognize that is where the majority of consumers are at, I feel that this sort of argument is intellectually lazy - it tends to get raised particularly every time someone has something against Chinese knives. The simple fact of the matter is: the individuals who have the time, patience, and energy to devote to establishing the integrity of every single corporation or manufacturer out there are likely few and far between. I'd also venture a guess that they aren't particularly happy folks either. However, I don't feel that's the point I am trying to make.

My take on it is this - barring obvious conflicts on the basis of ethical and/or moral grounds, I give companies the benefit of a doubt until something comes to light that would have me view them differently. Knives for us are a luxury, often made by smaller businesses and/or individual makers. It's easy enough to do the research and make those judgements accordingly. It's a lot more difficult when it comes to a large international entity like Makita, a Japanese manufacturer that operates factories all over the world - you could have tools made in China, or Brazil, or America, or elsewhere. Point being, it's a lot more convoluted so using that sort of premise as comparison to a small outfit like Survive! is a bit of a stretch.

Right now, I have outstanding pre-orders with Nathan Carothers. I trust Nathan and his crew but should there ever come a time when there is a breach of that trust and an unsavory repeatable pattern develops, then I will say bye-bye to all my CPKs. I don't expect that to ever happen - I think you'd be hard pressed to find a more trustworthy and transparent maker. There are a few makers like that here on BF, guys that I would have no problems cutting a check to because their word matters to them and they deliver what's promised (John from Redmeadow is another that comes to mind, as does Bill Siegle). With that in mind, why should I covet a knife from a maker that doesn't have my trust?




To expand on that point: Had Survive actually been honest with themselves and their customers/fans, they could have avoided all of this. Instead, Ellie opted for regular updates that involved vapid word salads and a heavy leaning on ridiculously obvious buzzwords. Relying on marketing mumbo-jumbo to try and kick the can further and further down the road only works for so long. A concise message of, "Hey, we got in over our heads and realize our approach is unsustainable. Books are closed for the indefinite future while we clear our backlog. Thank you for your patience" would have been far more appropriate. Instead, we got a lot of hot air and straight up lies.

If Survive came out today and said "Yeah, we know we f'd up, we own this" and then took demonstrable and measurable steps to productively and honestly turn things around, I still would not buy their knives but I will at least acknowledge that they turned over a new leaf. First thing that needs to happen (aside from clearing their absurd backlog) is to STOP TAKING PRE-ORDERS - they are literally begging from Peter to pay Paul. They have supposedly invested a lot of time, energy, money, and bad blood into getting their own manufacturing facility and equipment set up, they have no excuses now to not make batches of knives and offer said completed knives for sale after the fact.

No more bloody pre-orders, just stop.
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If that’s your line in the sand… that’s your line in the sand. For me… I like the knives I have… so I will continue to use them. I hear people are big mad at Medford now too. I will continue to enjoy the Medfords I have as well.
 
Here's a fun story from a few years ago:
Sagemode said:
Yet Survive is taking even more orders and even has new models out that are not in production. I ordered a 5.1 3 years ago and it is not going into production for years but they just took more orders on them. The $100 sheaths that have no refund were never even ordered so the people just gave them this money. The 7/7 that were in shop and inspected in 2016 were all sold as 2nds and they had to make a new run of 7/7. The same can be said with the new SK line 2 years ago. They will take the GSO 12s ect.... and sell them as the SK line while you wait years before you ask for a refund. Anyone that ordered a knife will have it sold as a 2nd, ugly betty, or some other term and wait years more. The reason the price is low for what you get is because they want to fill the bank with money knowing fully well it will be years before you ask for a refund and then they stall that and earn income off your payment. They are not sad to see you ask for a refund but laugh that it took you this long to do so. They don't make their knives in-house so what is the hold up? A ponzi scam that brings in lots of money while sending out few knives. Since 2015 just how many models were completed after the last batch of 5.1? They don't send out 20% of the orders in 4 years and the days will get longer as they keep taking more orders in. Yes they stop for awhile but look forward to fall and April to take more suckers in. The fanboys will get their pound of steel and the fake profiles of people who should be working on the knives instead of boycotting worried consumers too. Yes at one time they sent out blades about every 8 months but those days are gone. They lie and lie because nobody get it wrong every single time they make a statement. Even the void for vagueness clauses they send out each month tells the consumer nothing. The original statement from Survive about the new SK line was that it would get the GSO out faster and that they would not take anymore orders anymore till they caught up. They now say the SK line is going to be made by them at Millet and that it was never outsourced to another company to produce. They sold you vaporware and took your money. Don't fret though because you will get the GSO you ordered as a SK knife and to those that ordered the GSO will do more waiting as they hide behind we will send it someday. Yet to keep more money coming in the SK line will sell the 2nds first then the 1st of the SK line will come years later followed by the GSO many years from now if your lucky. People this is all by design. They say they are not making the F1 folders and Millet is not making them either. That should explain the crafty scam just at the base level of what these Guy's are doing. They have 3 employees working at Millet making knives so it is the same people and same scam with the same tools and much longer wait times.
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Apparently nothing has changed, other than Millet no longer working with S?K.
It didn't take long for Guy and Ellie to burn that bridge.
 
Blues said:
Some folks would take me to task for not just destroying them...but I guess my ethics are questionable as well.
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No one hasta pull a Fixall Fixall to show allegiance! Just selling off the knife is meaningful enough. Extra points if you can sell it back to S!K.
 
Blues said:
Personally, I've either sold or given away the knives from companies and / or makers whose ethics I found wanting.

Some folks would take me to task for not just destroying them...but I guess my ethics are questionable as well.
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At that point, the only one you’d be hurting is yourself. That would be like blowing up your Ford because some corporate wonk decided it was cheaper to let people roast in their Pintos than to fix them. If someone else wants and can use them, doesn’t care about the backstory, and will get some enjoyment out of them, at least some good will come of it.
 
AbjectTestament said:
I'll answer but first is there any answer I can give that you would see you agreeing with my being a fan of his?
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You’re a fan of his because you talk to him, and you think he’s a nice guy and sincere.

New flash: that’s what con artists do. They gain your confidence by telling you all the things they think you want to hear. No matter what he says and how sincere you think he is, his track record says otherwise. From everything I’ve seen, neither their story nor their record has changed. Until ALL paying customers who have been waiting for years get everything they paid for before new customers, which means every pie chart up through last year show 100% purchases fulfilled, they’re running a glorified ponzi scheme. But as of right now, you’re buying a story and ignoring all evidence that he’s not what he says he is. That pretty much makes you a mark.
 
Danny Linguini said:
Until ALL paying customers who have been waiting for years get everything they paid for before new customers, which means every pie chart up through last year show 100% purchases fulfilled, they’re running a glorified ponzi scheme.
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So what you're saying is once all paying customers who have been waiting for years recieve their knives you will no longer consider them a ponzi scheme?
 
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