It is not speculation to point out that they've taken full payments for knives and not delivered them at their promised lead times. Not speculation to point out that this has long been a sign of scams in many industries, knives included.
But that wasn't asking customers to give them loans. No one who pre-paid for one of their knives in full could reasonably think that was a loan, and calling it that detracts from what they did. They didn't blow by the terms of a loan they took payment in full for knives they certainly knew they couldn't deliver on time....and they kept doing it even after saying they would stop. No need to call it anything other than what it was as that by itself is plenty bad enough.
As far as the speculation about their business finances I don't think that helps. They've been described as a pyramid scheme, people have posted that they have to keep the pre-order money flowing in to keep the lights on, or keep food on the table. That is clearly speculation. I haven't seen their books and neither has anyone else here so we can only guess at what is going on. Is it likely that they had to resume taking pre-orders for cash flow purposes? Probably, but pretending we know for sure is speculation and completely unnecessary to warn prospective customers.
You uuhhhh...you're making my point for me. This is why these people are dirtbag frauds.
Also, you incorrectly state that it's speculation that this is a pyramid scheme. That is false. If you'd been around during their heydey here to see all the shenanigans they pulled, most prominently opening up new preorders for knives when years of backlog had yet to be delivered, it is
immediately and glaringly obvious what was going on, namely they needed the money from new preorders in order to place orders for knife parts from their suppliers, so Guy could bolt knives from PREVIOUS orders together, then
resell a bunch of them as "ugly betties"* so he could make double the money on a single knife and kick the can down the road further.
The facts from S?K knives were pretty clear. I was not exaggerating when I said that Ellie had gone on record plenty of times talking about how they didn't have a bunch of employees because only Guy can make the knives to their "exacting standards". So, given that information, is it speculation to understand that preorders for new knives when old knives hadn't been made yet was anything but straight up free loans from people so they could pay their bills? Who was gonna make these new knives? The guy who still had a ton of old knives to make? When was he going to find the time to do that? Exactly. Those new preorders were so they could keep a roof over their heads, and go on vacations, and pay their personal bills. We all know that money wasn't going to the companies who actually produce their stuff to have it made. If it had been, everyone would have their knives and there'd be no backlog. Remember, people HAVE gotten knives, while people were still waiting for years for older models. Why didn't Guy finish up those old runs?
You seem not to have been here for a lot of this, but most of us in this thread were. We don't need to see their books. We watched Ellie and Guy and read all the information, excuses, and runarounds they gave us for a decade. This isn't some "Man, it's just speculation, none of us REALLY know...." type situation. It's crystal clear what happened, and it's 100% why their scumbag asses got broomed out of here.
I am not trying to come down on you, but honestly, you don't know what you're talking about here.
* Before the guy had even gotten the knives/parts in, mind you.
