Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

Pro Tip. What you want to do is run an extension cord to one of your neighbor's outlets. You bury the cord and voila' electricity solved!
Funny, not funny. Maybe you didn't watch the shop tour as he was showing the electrical contractor work to bring in the various services and drops for that heavy equipment. All I could think of is that work isn't cheap. 208 volt wye in Boise vs. 240 volt in PA. Swapping out and wiring transformers, etc.

How many pre-order does it take to pay those electricians? This move was big money no matter how you look at it.

I have to think I'm not the only one wondering how that was all paid for given their story.

Huge space...probably bigger than CRK.
 
Funny, not funny. Maybe you didn't watch the shop tour as he was showing the electrical contractor work to bring in the various services and drops for that heavy equipment. All I could think of is that work isn't cheap. 208 volt wye in Boise vs. 240 volt in PA. Swapping out and wiring transformers, etc.

How many pre-order does it take to pay those electricians? This move was big money no matter how you look at it.

I have to think I'm not the only one wondering how that was all paid for given their story.

Huge space...probably bigger than CRK.
No worries. He's going to stiff the electrical contractor.

p09mtm0n.jpg
 
I have to think I'm not the only one wondering how that was all paid for given their story.
If my memory is correct, a member of BF’s commented years ago about loaning them a substantial amount of money, I believe the figure was $100,000.

Again if my memory is correct, they bought a building with the intent of moving operations there but before the move the building burned down, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of insurance claim.
 
I'm shocked to hear this. Shocked, I say.

(And that's just about loaning substantial money...the rest, well...)

I am reminded of the cousin I loaned money to twice. Once for a procedure she needed done. (I never heard anything about repayment.)

Once, years later for a procedure her son needed done. (Only to learn from family member that the procedure was never done and she and her husband took a vacation to HI. Her mother told my father, "why should she pay him back, he's doing okay". I never spoke to either of them again.)
"It's better to give than to lend and it costs the same." -anonymous
 
If my memory is correct, a member of BF’s commented years ago about loaning them a substantial amount of money, I believe the figure was $100,000.

Again if my memory is correct, they bought a building with the intent of moving operations there but before the move the building burned down, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of insurance claim.
There are posts about this somewhere on the old S!K sub-forum on this site. What I remember was that they purchased the $100K building with money from the "Starter Program." The loan was from an "angel investor" who posted here a few times. IIRC, the "angel investor" was an attorney in SLC. He stated that he gave them a loan, and then had to extend the payment terms. S!K was active on the forum at the time, and never contradicted what the "angel investor" said. Again, this is just my memory and could be wrong. Details are on the old S!K sub-forum.
 
Some thoughts: If you total the revenue at 50% net for the qty of blanks shown in videos it's not enough to survive (pun intended) by my calculations. They somehow got loans - I'm guessing pre-order revenue on the books - and inept banking underwriters. My guess is they're also highly leveraged at this stage using the "pyramid" money to keep from defaulting on the payments and to live off personally. There is most certainly more than one loan or even lender. So the "quasi" in pyramid as I view it is in their ability to have acquired those self reported loans and sustain payments to keep from defaulting.

I'm shocked it has gone on for as long as it has but it still seems like only a matter of time before it crumbles with this most recent move. Again, opinion.

Best I can tell they have some material, cut blanks and a pallet of sheet steel. More than some equipment. A much larger (inexpensive) rental space than needed, about the same size as Chris Reeve Knives at what looks like about 7,000 s.f. Then there are 2 full time employees. Two part time professional chef employees. And yet another "promise" to hire a clerical person.

As a career entrepreneur I'll write that there isn't anything that can't be solved with money. Nothing. They have no money. Each morning he awakes to a juggling act or game of whack a mole to try to decide what bills to pay with the severely limited resources he commands. Many days he's probably paralyzed into barely getting anything done by the depressing situation he continues to make for himself. It's clear from their complete lack of ability to solve their problems. Example: with money they could just wipe all backlogs off the books by refunding customers, call it a day and reboot. With money he'd have all the staff in the world to run a viable concern. It's clear he barely has the financial resources to keep the electricity on. It has been years of this. I cannot fathom what it's like for him to live like this. He must get Niagara, Peter's Heat Treat, his sheath maker and supplier of micarta paid or he doesn't continue. Somehow that's actually happening.

My opinion: Guy is not getting rich off this situation. He isn't choosing for it to be like this. What is clear is that he and his girlfriend? are completely out of their depth when it comes to running a business. That includes many things, not the least of which is honoring commitments, setting proper customer expectations, doing the honorable and proper things and the list goes on and on for years. I am NOT an apologist or fanboy. What I don't think is that he's inherently ill intentioned or a thief. I do believe he is conducting himself dishonorably as a self made victim of his own circumstances. Look at the actual history of Charles Ponzi. He seemed to really believe he could make things right, while becoming fabulously wealthy. That's not the issue here.

Where and from whom he's getting orders and pre-orders is still the biggest question I have. His costs on a knife, materials (steel, screws, micarta), outsourced sheaths and heat treating, payments on equipment, must add up to fixed + variable costs of 50% or higher on less expensive/lower revenue variants. He's probably nailed his sweet spot at the 5.1. Best revenue for price and amount of labor involved. But who is ordering this stuff?

FB marketing is dead or dying for him.
His YouTube fanboys are dwindling.
This forum has long ago shut him down.
There is 0 dealer network.
He's got no significant money for marketing anywhere.

So where? And by that I mean in consistent quantity to remain in business. It's a humongously large world so who who knows?

It has been 10 years of this. It's just the way it will continue until it doesn't. One day we may find out he just couldn't hold it together any longer and it all imploded. Until then, just more of the same. We will all just shake our heads and wonder who placed a pre-order? Who didn't demand their money back after 2 years of waiting.

I wrote this stream of consciousness style on a phone. My apologies if not organized.
I appreciate the time you took to draw this opinion out, as I agree with quite a bit of it as a likely possibility.

I have done some consulting for startups that would dump enormous amounts of money into ventures they really didn't know enough about.

Despite many of these companies having incredibly deep financial backing, at the end of the day, you must still have a trajectory that identifies and meets goals, product value that can sustain consistent growth, and the ability to absorb setbacks.

Sometimes for the sake of saving reputation for future endeavors, it's better to cut your losses and full stop.

If my memory is correct, a member of BF’s commented years ago about loaning them a substantial amount of money, I believe the figure was $100,000.

Again if my memory is correct, they bought a building with the intent of moving operations there but before the move the building burned down, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of insurance claim.
That is something.

Par for the course.
 
I'm shocked to hear this. Shocked, I say.

(And that's just about loaning substantial money...the rest, well...)

I am reminded of the cousin I loaned money to twice. Once for a procedure she needed done. (I never heard anything about repayment.)

Once, years later for a procedure her son needed done. (Only to learn from family member that the procedure was never done and she and her husband took a vacation to HI. Her mother told my father, "why should she pay him back, he's doing okay". I never spoke to either of them again.)
Off topic, but I never loan money to family. A gift perhaps but never a loan. Its not worth it.
 
Some thoughts: If you total the revenue at 50% net for the qty of blanks shown in videos it's not enough to survive (pun intended) by my calculations. They somehow got loans - I'm guessing pre-order revenue on the books - and inept banking underwriters. My guess is they're also highly leveraged at this stage using the "pyramid" money to keep from defaulting on the payments and to live off personally. There is most certainly more than one loan or even lender. So the "quasi" in pyramid as I view it is in their ability to have acquired those self reported loans and sustain payments to keep from defaulting.

I'm shocked it has gone on for as long as it has but it still seems like only a matter of time before it crumbles with this most recent move. Again, opinion.

Best I can tell they have some material, cut blanks and a pallet of sheet steel. More than some equipment. A much larger (inexpensive) rental space than needed, about the same size as Chris Reeve Knives at what looks like about 7,000 s.f. Then there are 2 full time employees. Two part time professional chef employees. And yet another "promise" to hire a clerical person.

As a career entrepreneur I'll write that there isn't anything that can't be solved with money. Nothing. They have no money. Each morning he awakes to a juggling act or game of whack a mole to try to decide what bills to pay with the severely limited resources he commands. Many days he's probably paralyzed into barely getting anything done by the depressing situation he continues to make for himself. It's clear from their complete lack of ability to solve their problems. Example: with money they could just wipe all backlogs off the books by refunding customers, call it a day and reboot. With money he'd have all the staff in the world to run a viable concern. It's clear he barely has the financial resources to keep the electricity on. It has been years of this. I cannot fathom what it's like for him to live like this. He must get Niagara, Peter's Heat Treat, his sheath maker and supplier of micarta paid or he doesn't continue. Somehow that's actually happening.

My opinion: Guy is not getting rich off this situation. He isn't choosing for it to be like this. What is clear is that he and his girlfriend? are completely out of their depth when it comes to running a business. That includes many things, not the least of which is honoring commitments, setting proper customer expectations, doing the honorable and proper things and the list goes on and on for years. I am NOT an apologist or fanboy. What I don't think is that he's inherently ill intentioned or a thief. I do believe he is conducting himself dishonorably as a self made victim of his own circumstances. Look at the actual history of Charles Ponzi. He seemed to really believe he could make things right, while becoming fabulously wealthy. That's not the issue here.

Where and from whom he's getting orders and pre-orders is still the biggest question I have. His costs on a knife, materials (steel, screws, micarta), outsourced sheaths and heat treating, payments on equipment, must add up to fixed + variable costs of 50% or higher on less expensive/lower revenue variants. He's probably nailed his sweet spot at the 5.1. Best revenue for price and amount of labor involved. But who is ordering this stuff?

FB marketing is dead or dying for him.
His YouTube fanboys are dwindling.
This forum has long ago shut him down.
There is 0 dealer network.
He's got no significant money for marketing anywhere.

So where? And by that I mean in consistent quantity to remain in business. It's a humongously large world so who who knows?

It has been 10 years of this. It's just the way it will continue until it doesn't. One day we may find out he just couldn't hold it together any longer and it all imploded. Until then, just more of the same. We will all just shake our heads and wonder who placed a pre-order? Who didn't demand their money back after 2 years of waiting.

I wrote this stream of consciousness style on a phone. My apologies if not organized.
Absolutely a lot of what you so is very likely true. As for funding, years back we had a person post here that he had "loaned" survive a bunch of money. There was some drama about how he would get that money back. They person stopped posting so I'm not sure what happened. Who knows how many personal loans like this survive has had. At one point paypal shut them down because of all the cases opened. I highly doubt many legit financial institutions would fund survive's business if the were given an accurate view of what that business looks like. I believe that if survive does get official financial funding, they do so fraudulently. We know they cook the books. Counting refunded customers from 7 years ago as current completed sales is a way of cooking the books. I have no doubt that is the PA DA took a had look at survives business, they'd find plenty of white collar crime. Hell, survive admits to such things.

As to whether guy lives a horrible existence based on the juggling act he has created, I don't know. The thing with con-artists like this is that the con game is their lifestyle. This might seems super stupid and stressful to us normal people but to a conman, this is just normal life. This is how they survive, pun intended. At many many junctures throughout their history, they could have called it off, closed up shop, and done something else. They have not because this is a successful con. They aren't getting rich but that is not the goal for a coning grifter. The goal is to keeping living off the con with minimal effort and expense.
 
If my memory is correct, a member of BF’s commented years ago about loaning them a substantial amount of money, I believe the figure was $100,000.

Again if my memory is correct, they bought a building with the intent of moving operations there but before the move the building burned down, I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some kind of insurance claim.

There are posts about this somewhere on the old S!K sub-forum on this site. What I remember was that they purchased the $100K building with money from the "Starter Program." The loan was from an "angel investor" who posted here a few times. IIRC, the "angel investor" was an attorney in SLC. He stated that he gave them a loan, and then had to extend the payment terms. S!K was active on the forum at the time, and never contradicted what the "angel investor" said. Again, this is just my memory and could be wrong. Details are on the old S!K sub-forum.
Yup, If I had the time, it would be hilarious to go back and find that.
 
Here's the text. The remainder of the article is behind a pay wall.

Arrest made in G'burg gun theft

Man had travel plans, roommate says

BY JOSH DOOLEY

Times Staff Writer

Hours before he reportedly planned to leave the country, police arrested Guy Kenneth Seiferd Jr., 19, of Gettysburg in connection with the burglary at Redding's Hardware in Gettysburg last week in which 17 handguns were stolen.

Seiferd is currently being held in the Adams County Prision in lieu of a $100,000 bond on charges of burglary, criminal trespass and theft, according to a prison spokesperson.

A search warrant delivered to Seiferd's landlord and roommate Raymond Kline outlines a trail of confidential informants that led police to Seiferd. The informants allegedly told officials Seiferd bragged about the crime and tried to sell some weapons.

In their search warrant, police allege Seiferd, a former Marine, according to Kline, approached his recruiter in Hanover with a bag full of weapons, attempting to sell them.

Kline was outside his townhouse in the 100 block of High Street Saturday afternoon with friends watching a mechanic work on Kline's van when police arrived.

Work was being done on the van so Kline could take Seiferd to the airport, Kline said.

"He had a ticket and he had a plan. He was headed to Cozumel (Mexico). He had just gotten his scuba diving license and he was going to go down there and get a job," Kline said.

But that plan came to a screeching halt Saturday afternoon.

"They came out of nowhere. All

(See ARREST on Page A8)

Just quoting this here because the "$100k" reminded me of it.
Coincidently the same amount as his bond from when he stole a bunch of guns.

But hey, we were all 19. Remember when we all used to steal ~20 hand guns and sell them illegally?
 
Yup, If I had the time, it would be hilarious to go back and find that.

Since Boru13 Boru13 was setting a good example in helping people, I figured I'd do the same. :D


The guy's username is "Lancelot", and I believe this is the investor being spoken of. He discusses his cash payment to S?K in several posts in that thread.
 
Since Boru13 Boru13 was setting a good example in helping people, I figured I'd do the same. :D


The guy's username is "Lancelot", and I believe this is the investor being spoken of. He discusses his cash payment to S?K in several posts in that thread.
Appreciate you finding that :cool:

And just for the record, members will notice that thread is locked, SURVIVE! Ellie SURVIVE! Ellie is the one who locked the thread when she still had moderator status.
 
Since Boru13 Boru13 was setting a good example in helping people, I figured I'd do the same. :D


The guy's username is "Lancelot", and I believe this is the investor being spoken of. He discusses his cash payment to S?K in several posts in that thread.
thank you.
 
I'm not gonna make any excuses for Guy and his practices. Simply put, he has it on his website that for a Survive 5.1 GSO, the wait is 3 months, but when I ordered mine in 3v, it took 6 months. and that's if you're lucky. Once the 3 month mark hit, I was sending them messages and giving them hell because in the business world, if you put out a time frame and you fail to meet it, that's on you! If I was a knife maker, and it took me 3 months to get a knife out the door, I would tell everyone 4-5 months to give me some flexibility. Once I got the knife I have to say though, that it was 100% worth the weight. Guy does put a lot of time and care into his blades. He could charge custom prices and nobody would bat an eye, that's how good the quality is. Long story short, the blades he makes are awesome, but the wait time sucks and he needs to do better or just be honest with people about how long it's going to be.
Every thief has their apologists.
 
Just quoting this here because the "$100k" reminded me of it.
Coincidently the same amount as his bond from when he stole a bunch of guns.

But hey, we were all 19. Remember when we all used to steal ~20 hand guns and sell them illegally?
Good times!
 
Appreciate you finding that :cool:

And just for the record, members will notice that thread is locked, SURVIVE! Ellie SURVIVE! Ellie is the one who locked the thread when she still had moderator status.

Yes, sir. I had a few minutes and had a general idea on how to track the specific info down. I will say that everyone who reads that thread should have some key takeways:

- Lancelot's (I see no need to tag him) was in September of 2017, or very nearly six years ago. (LMAOOOO you know dude never got paid)
- In his post, Lancelot states that he spoke with Guy, who proceeded to tell him about all the issues they're experiencing, things like major issues with vendor supplied materials, how difficult they're finding it to get refunds out quickly, and their inability to meet stated deadlines (prompting the removal of the 90 day window from their site).
- Of especial note, the demands for refunds are causing them to be incapable of buying new materials to make knives with. Odd, I mean, if that's the case....where did all the money originally paid by customers placing orders go? What did all of those funds purchase? What happened to the materials those funds should have purchased? (Ayuk, ahuh, I say son, that's a, that's a rhetorical question, uh-huh!)
- Six years later, virtually all of these are the exact same issues Guy continues to claim they have.
- Six years later, they still have a backlog stretching back eight years.

At this juncture, it is what it is. My message to the few defenders left in this thread (and for any future water carriers) is this: is this who you want to support? A company run by a smalltime felon who can't provide products he was paid to provide, who at this juncture (especially if you purchased a knife in Delta 3V) he can't provide? Make no mistake, these bums have had like fifteen years to get it right. And hey, at the end of the day, several of us (though I can only speak concretely for myself) continue to periodicaly check back and post in this thread because it continues to be of some small entertainment value. Back when these bums had a forum, these excuses were all the same. It's never been any different. Guy is a scumbag, and Ellie's a bum. It's as simple as that. I know that they almost certainly have been back to Bladeforums over the five years it's been since their forum got the axe, probably whenever one of their defenders stumbles upon this thread. That alone has to make the top of Guy's head melt off because he can't refute a single thing any of us have said (and better, can't delete posts or try to control their BS narrative here).
 
Since Boru13 Boru13 was setting a good example in helping people, I figured I'd do the same. :D


The guy's username is "Lancelot", and I believe this is the investor being spoken of. He discusses his cash payment to S?K in several posts in that thread.
……I am conflicted about that thread having re-read it (I followed it live at the time), not sure if it is hilarious that almost NOTHING has changed (I hope Lance got his $s back) or sad beyond belief people are still lapping up their BS.
 
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