Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[Bluegrass Survival]

Every thief has their apologists.

I'm not apologizing for him dude, if anything I gambled 280 bucks. I stand by what I said. The quality of his knives are great. Everything else is trash. Would you rather me lie and say the grind was off or something to make you feel better?

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

Some of you guys are talking about angel investments with S!K going wrong, and other scam and schemes that I have no knowledge of. I don't know Guy, I don't know his girlfriend, and I paid full price for my 5.1. Obviously some of you know more about this situation then I do. From my own opinions, it just seemed to me that he sucks at running his business and that he lies. I would do some more reading about them on here but lets be honest, I'm not ever gonna order from him again so it would be a waste of time.

 

[braillediver]

Apologist enablers like you have enabled these charlatans to perpetrate this fraud for almost a decade.

I don't feel sorry for the Guy or Ellie after they've lied, stole peoples money and blamed everyone but themselves for almost a decade. Stolen you ask- They don't have the money on hand to complete the knives already paid for. So= Ponzi Scheme.

And No it's not the best thing since sliced bread. It's just a paint by # kit knife assembled from supplied parts. One which you better handle carefully since you're screwed if you need customer service.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

Yours paid off in a reasonable time- One of the lucky few. Would you be apologizing for the Guy if you Didn't get your knife?

I don't feel sorry for the Guy or Ellie after they've lied, stole peoples money and blamed everyone but themselves for almost a decade. Stolen you ask- They don't have the money available to complete the knives previously paid for. So= Ponzi Scheme.

And No it's not the best thing since sliced bread. It's just a knife. One which you better handle carefully since you're screwed if you need customer service.

No idea why people think I was trying to make excuses for Guy and his girlfriend. I posted my own experience and that was it. No idea how this blew up into me being an " Apologist" for S!K. Guess people need to vent at someone. Do I agree with their business practices? Nope! I should be good on the warranty though, as I don't take my knives out and smash them against center blocks or some other BS.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

I should be good on the warranty though, as I don't take my knives out and smash them against center blocks or some other BS.

…….well unless you get one with a bad HT (more likely no HT in the case I am thinking of) and then wait a couple of years for Guy to get around to looking at it for your. While on HT, what about all those unfulfilled orders placed for blades with the Delta HT that Lying Guy stopped because he knows better.

Most people accept the designs are functional and well enough executed but they are noting revolutionary or that can’t be had from another reputable maker.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Correction, but Carothers has their Delta Heat Treatment.

Carothers has who’s heat treatment?

Regardless, this isn’t really one of those, “yeah, but they are great knives” threads. This is one of those “yeah, they’re a bunch of fuck-ups” threads… because they unquestionably are.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

Carothers has who’s heat treatment?

Regardless, this isn’t really one of those, “yeah, but they are great knives” threads. This is one of those “yeah, they’re a bunch of fuck-ups” threads… because they unquestionably are.

You said and I quote "There’s really nothing he’s doing that Carothers isn’t already doing, except Carothers gets outstanding knives into the hands of its patrons on time and they are an outstanding member of the knife community. " To which I said "Correction, they have their Delta Heat Treatment. My meaning was they are doing MORE then S!K does in the form of their knife manufacturing. S!K doesn't do their own heat treatment, where Carothers does I believe.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

Apologist enablers like you have enabled these charlatans to perpetrate this fraud for almost a decade.

I don't feel sorry for the Guy or Ellie after they've lied, stole peoples money and blamed everyone but themselves for almost a decade. Stolen you ask- They don't have the money on hand to complete the knives already paid for. So= Ponzi Scheme.

And No it's not the best thing since sliced bread. It's just a paint by # kit knife assembled from supplied parts. One which you better handle carefully since you're screwed if you need customer service.

"Apologist enablers like you have enabled these charlatans to perpetrate this fraud for almost a decade."

A lot of people have bought knives from them. Would I do business again after knowing what I do now? Hell no, but it is what it is. So are you gonna vent at everyone that made the mistake of doing business with them? The DBK boys just had a few of his knives over on their show. Why not take some of that rage over there and post a comment?

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

…….well unless you get one with a bad HT (more likely no HT in the case I am thinking of) and then wait a couple of years for Guy to get around to looking at it for your. While on HT, what about all those unfulfilled orders placed for blades with the Delta HT that Lying Guy stopped because he knows better.

Most people accept the designs are functional and well enough executed but they are noting revolutionary or that can’t be had from another reputable maker.

No argument there. As for Guy, he doesn't have a Delta Heat Treatment, that's a Carothers thing. S!K has their blades heat treated at Peter's Heat Treating, the same place Bark River gets their blades done. Not the biggest fan of Bark River either but that's a whole different conversation.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

That is exactly who it is. Guy has leveraged YouTube and worked with a few "influencers" to promote his product. He HEAVILY moderates social media, and a lot (most?) of his new customers have no idea that the S!K train-wreck has been ongoing for a decade.

Guilty. I don't post or come on here a lot so much of the info I got about S!K WAS on YouTube. I deleted my Facebook Account long ago. Another thing that helped Guy early on was when CPM 3V was new to the market when he started to make knives for it. This was back when so few companies were working with that steel and everyone in their mother wanted some of it. He's still counting the cash from 2015 I bet.

 

[EngrSorenson]

You said and I quote "There’s really nothing he’s doing that Carothers isn’t already doing, except Carothers gets outstanding knives into the hands of its patrons on time and they are an outstanding member of the knife community. " To which I said "Correction, they have their Delta Heat Treatment. My meaning was they are doing MORE then S!K does in the form of their knife manufacturing. S!K doesn't do their own heat treatment, where Carothers does I believe.

The reason for my confusion is that the Delta heat treat is sometimes attributed to S!K, but it was R&D’ed by three guys, including Nathan and Guy. When you said “their heat treat”, I wasn’t sure if you meant the process of heat treating or an ownership of the particular delta heat treat process.

I actually don’t know who HT’s Carothers’ knives, but Peters is no slouch. Doesn’t bother me that S!K uses Peter’s- some of my favorite knife manufacturers do.

The whole “delta or not to delta” thing is a bad look for S!K, because they sold it as if it was important, and then dropped it as if it wasn’t. Another great example of how S!K looks foolish in aggregate.

 

[coolbreezy37]

The reason for my confusion is that the Delta heat treat is sometimes attributed to S!K, but it was R&D’ed by three guys, including Nathan and Guy. When you said “their heat treat”, I wasn’t sure if you meant the process of heat treating or an ownership of the particular delta heat treat process.

I actually don’t know who HT’s Carothers’ knives, but Peters is no slouch. Doesn’t bother me that S!K uses Peter’s- some of my favorite knife manufacturers do.

The whole “delta or not to delta” thing is a bad look for S!K, because they sold it as if it was important, and then dropped it as if it wasn’t. Another great example of how S!K looks foolish in aggregate.

I believe Peters does CPK’s heat treat, using Nathan’s, Dan Keffeler’s, and formerly Guy’s proprietary Delta protocol. Both Nathan and Dan still use it. I could be wrong, but I believe Nathan did most of the legwork involving Delta.

 

[coolbreezy37]

I think out of everyone on here you hit the nail on the head. People were trying to swarm me on here cause I gave an honest opinion. I rolled the dice and I got my knife. Was it nice? Yes, yes it was. With that said, I think Guy is a good knife maker, but he is really, REALLY, bad at managing his business. He is in over his head, and he refuses to hire people or bring in folks to teach him how to run his business properly. He needs to get those old orders out before he ships anymore newer knifes. Those folks need to be at the top of the list!

The whole survive issue has gone beyond “Guy being in over his head”. How many issues can a “knife maker” have in the past 10 years? With him there’s always an excuse, and someone else who needs the finger pointed at them. In the eyes of the majority of the knife community, his actions seem to go beyond unfortunate mistakes and steer towards willful deliberation. I’m not sure how the manufacturing process is currently in Gettysburg, but don’t forget that for the longest time he was only sharpening and bolting together outsourced knife parts.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

The reason for my confusion is that the Delta heat treat is sometimes attributed to S!K, but it was R&D’ed by three guys, including Nathan and Guy. When you said “their heat treat”, I wasn’t sure if you meant the process of heat treating or an ownership of the particular delta heat treat process.

I actually don’t know who HT’s Carothers’ knives, but Peters is no slouch. Doesn’t bother me that S!K uses Peter’s- some of my favorite knife manufacturers do.

The whole “delta or not to delta” thing is a bad look for S!K, because they sold it as if it was important, and then dropped it as if it wasn’t. Another great example of how S!K looks foolish in aggregate.

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know that S!K was trying to say that their knives had the Delta Heat Treat for their 3V. Personally I think that's pretty low of them to go that route. I never even heard that term till I was introduced to Carothers.

 

[Bluegrass Survival]

The whole survive issue has gone beyond “Guy being in over his head”. How many issues can a “knife maker” have in the past 10 years? With him there’s always an excuse, and someone else who needs the finger pointed at them. In the eyes of the majority of the knife community, his actions seem to go beyond unfortunate mistakes and steer towards willful deliberation. I’m not sure how the manufacturing process is currently in Gettysburg, but don’t forget that for the longest time he was only sharpening and bolting together outsourced knife parts.

The more I am learning about Survive as a business the more it points towards deliberate and deceitful actions. I took the liberty of reading up on this thread a bit and tbh it's quite gut wrenching what they have done. The anger of the members on here is justified. I'll never buy anything else from them again. You shouldn't have to send someone money then hope and pray you get a knife from it. I'm surprised someone hasn't drove out to Idaho to kick his ass over these shady practices.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know that S!K was trying to say that their knives had the Delta Heat Treat for their 3V. Personally I think that's pretty low of them to go that route. I never even heard that term till I was introduced to Carothers.

Well that was a selling feature- come get the new 3V with delta heat treatment survive! knives!
after a while though, they dropped it and put out a video which basically claimed that the delta HT wasn't worth it after all.

... of course it probably is worth it to the people who wanted to buy a delta V3 knife, but S!K changed that up on them without notice.

 

[Boru13]

Well that was a selling feature- come get the new 3V with delta heat treatment survive! knives!
after a while though, they dropped it and put out a video which basically claimed that the delta HT wasn't worth it after all.

... of course it probably is worth it to the people who wanted to buy a delta V3 knife, but S!K changed that up on them without notice.

Guy’s always doing what’s best for his customers

 

[marrenmiller]

Some corrections to some posts on this thread. Not a defense of S!K, which I wrote about in this very thread and do not recommend buying from.

Carothers also uses Peters for their heat treatment. It's not very practical for smaller makers to do their own heat treatments, so most contract the job out.

The Delta protocol is carried out for CPK by their contractor, and was for Survive as well until Survive decided to go back to the conventional secondary hardening heat treatment protocol.

Guy and Nathan Carothers both worked on developing the Delta 3V protocol, which was why Survive was using it originally (and is also why IMO it's so absurd that Survive stopped using it in favor of something worse).

 

[Andy the Aussie]

No argument there. As for Guy, he doesn't have a Delta Heat Treatment, that's a Carothers thing. S!K has their blades heat treated at Peter's Heat Treating, the same place Bark River gets their blades done. Not the biggest fan of Bark River either but that's a whole different conversation.

…… I think my point about Perish Knives and their prior use of the Delta HT has been clarified - that they did indeed offer it. My main point is that had you ordered and paid for a knife in 3V with the Delta HT would you feel more than a little ripped off if they discontinued it years after accepting your order without supplying exactly what you ordered ? One of Perish Knives selling points was “available knives in Delta 3V”. Also it seems now that Peters keep getting Lying Guy’s HTs wrong…..

 

[AmericanEDC]

I'd love to have the "transparency" from Niagara and Peter's Heat Treat and Crucible for that matter and even a weigh-in from Dr. Larrin Thomas about this little decarbonization fiasco; on top of every other setback that seems to only plague S!K?

We will never get one.

We all know that in almost every disagreement there are two sides to a story and then the truth. Here....I wonder. It's hard to deny some of what's on those videos. Anyone? I'm seeing some shit with my own eyes there. Can anyone on the hater side explain that stuff? Anyone who knows more than me? Theories? Thoughts? I don't mean benefit of the doubt to S!K I only mean a rational explanation.

There are defects. I see them. Guy didn't put them there.

I wonder if any of the skilled knife makers watching this are thinking..damn, bad luck. Or know something I definitely don't. Etc.