Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

craytab said:
... "We have been screwed by all the big bad suppliers and everyone is against us! All because we have such high standards! Place an order for our most best product yet and stick it to the man while supporting the small time good guys!"...
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Agree that is what they are doing.

PT Barnum (actually never) said "There's a sucker born every minute." S!K may be horrible at creating a sustainable business model and running a functional business, but they continue to find customers that believe their shtick and give them money. S!K has unfulfilled orders from 2015 and a mile high stack of previous excuses, but there are still people that BELIVE that Guy is just a victim and that S!K i on the verge of success... There's a sucker born every minute.

I would really love for a legitimate knife maker to evaluate the supposed magnacut decarburization issue and the warping claims. I just find it unfathomable that S!K the only company that is having these issues.
 
I question he is just showing the standard 5-10% of reject parts any manufacturer of this nature will have.

He's got 1000s of blades and he shows 2 or 3 on video.

He's trying to wrangle in the last few suckers. Hence why the price stays so cheap.

Do you think Guy wouldn't jump at charging $400+? He simply cannot due to reputation and needing folks to be able to say, "screw it I'll risk $250".
 
I charge just under $400 for similar blades that they charge $250 for. I honestly couldn't deliver them at that price. Things always go wrong and you end up spending more time and money than you originally planned which needs to be built into the price up front. Also, you also need to build in margin so that you can sell through dealers (although that means you need to have product to deliver).

I had issues with Magnacut at first before I figured out different processes to work with it. I will say this, there is no comparable Bohler product to Magnacut, (certainly not Elmax).

I am a fan of the Magnacut even with the early challenges because of what it delivers in performance. Also Magnacut is USA designed and produced- merica'
 
gscreely said:
I charge just under $400 for similar blades that they charge $250 for. I honestly couldn't deliver them at that price. Things always go wrong and you end up spending more time and money than you originally planned which needs to be built into the price up front. Also, you also need to build in margin so that you can sell through dealers (although that means you need to have product to deliver).
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I think we’ve all known one of those, “hey, I got a great idea. I’ll start an <<enter type here>> company. I’ve thought about it all weekend and I think it’ll be easy.” idiots.

Guy Seiferd is that idiot.
 
gscreely said:
I charge just under $400 for similar blades that they charge $250 for. I honestly couldn't deliver them at that price. Things always go wrong and you end up spending more time and money than you originally planned which needs to be built into the price up front. Also, you also need to build in margin so that you can sell through dealers (although that means you need to have product to deliver).

I had issues with Magnacut at first before I figured out different processes to work with it. I will say this, there is no comparable Bohler product to Magnacut, (certainly not Elmax).

I am a fan of the Magnacut even with the early challenges because of what it delivers in performance. Also Magnacut is USA designed and produced- merica'
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What about the decarb and the warping Guy is showing in his videos? Is this a legitimate issue? I am not a knife maker, and do not understand the tolerances that are normal in the industry, and I would really like to see some input from someone that makes knives.
 
gscreely said:
I charge just under $400 for similar blades that they charge $250 for. I honestly couldn't deliver them at that price.
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That is part of the scam. Price too good to be true. You are getting such a deal, who cares if it takes a bit longer than expected! You aren't out much, just keep waiting!

It is also really hard to organize all the people out money to legally do something. And remember, no one hasn't been made whole!

It is a really good con.
 
ncrockclimb said:
What about the decarb and the warping Guy is showing in his videos? Is this a legitimate issue? I am not a knife maker, and do not understand the tolerances that are normal in the industry, and I would really like to see some input from someone that makes knives.
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turns out I make some Knives.

All steel moves to a certain degree in heat treatment, some more than others. When steel comes from the mill in plate form, there is a bit of a mill scale on the outside of the sheet, in the case of Magnacut it’s critical that you grind it away before you heat treat. As it relates to decarbonization, that was an issue that happened when Peter’s heat treat was basically putting the steel through a normalizing cycle to try to relieve stress. The problem is that was done in an atmosphere oven rather than a vacuum furnace. This will cause a little bit of decarbonization in the first few thousands of the surface.

The challenge with survive Knives is that they sent knives to heat treat pretty close to finished tolerances and then they did not have enough meat left to grind away the decarb layers.

Magnacut does not just magically decarb, any steel heated to that temperature will decarb in the same way if done in atmosphere. This is nothing unique to Magnacut.
 
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gscreely said:
turns out I make some Knives.

All steels moves to a certain degree in heat treat, some more than others. When steel comes from the mill in plate form, there is a bit of a mill scale on the outside of the sheet, in the case of Magnacut it’s critical that you grind it away before you heat treat. As it relates to the decarbonation, that was an issue that happened when Peter’s heat treat was basically putting the steel through a normalizing cycle to try to relieve stress. The problem is that was done in an atmosphere oven rather than a vacuum furnace. This will cause a little bit of decarbonization in the first few thousands of the surface.

The challenge with survive Knives is that they sent knives to heat pretty close to finished tolerances and then they did not have enough meat left to grind away the decarb layers.

Magnacut does not just magically decarb, Any steel heated to that temperature with decarb in the same way if done in atmosphere. This is nothing unique to Magnacut.
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Thank you!! I appreciate your response.
 
Yeah I have noticed their knives are coming back from HT at basically the intended final dimensions leaving no room for correction of common and/or minor issues that occur in the process prior to final shaping and finishing. I don't make knives but have seen the work and process of enough makers to know that you often have to shape and finish to the final dimensions and there is effectively an expected amount of material waste from that process.
 
gscreely said:
.......
The challenge with survive Knives is that they sent knives to heat pretty close to finished tolerances and then they did not have enough meat left to grind away the decarb layers.

Magnacut does not just magically decarb, Any steel heated to that temperature with decarb in the same way if done in atmosphere. This is nothing unique to Magnacut.
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Hence, the reason Niagra and CPM told S!K to pound sand when he wanted them to comp him for the steel. Thanks for the explanation.
 
For some reason, they did an October 2023 update recently. Not sure why they waited so long for an October update instead of doing a November update.

Now that we know that Survive! counts refunded orders as "Complete", we can't tell how much progress they actually make on older orders. They also decided to remove overall progress from the Production schedule. I have no idea why they would want to do that. :rolleyes:

They included progress on new orders in 2023. Not much progress on 2021 or 2022 orders.

2015: 0.0% in 2 months
2016: 0.1% in 2 months
2017: 0.0% in 2 months
2018: Complete
2019: 0.3% in 2 months
2020: 0.3% in 2 months
2021: 0.5% in 2 months
2022: 4.0% in 2 months
2023: 15.6% in 2 months

ClMnYYW.jpg
 
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Apparently pre-ordering is still the bestest:

Why Preorder​

Preordering is the best way to ensure you're getting the exact options you want on your new knife, while also saving money.
  • You can pick from the full list of handle and sheath options and we will make your knife exactly the way you want it.
  • All preorders are discounted at least 5% off current pricing.
  • You don't have to worry about future price increases since your order is already locked in.
  • Guarantees that you get a knife from the upcoming production run, so you don't have to hurt your finger hitting the refresh button when extras drop.
  • Seriously! Our backlog is diminishing and demand is growing quickly. End of run blades are selling out fast and options become limited at the end of each run. We're working hard to scale up as quickly as possible but demand seems to be growing right along with us.
 
Well I sort of fell for the bullshit- I expected the 8 year-old 2015 orders were going to be eminently filled earlier this year with verbiage like “now in finishing” or whatever. I’ve been following this saga so long that I figured it was inevitable this year that they’d knock out those 2015 orders.

At this point I’m pleased to see them failing. Keep it up, S!K- eventually your stats are going to look so bad that no one can ignore it. Not even the “I got mine!” reviewers.

Guy K. Seiferd is a joke!
 
tokerblue said:
For some reason, they did an October 2023 update recently. Not sure why they waited so long for an October update instead of doing a November update.

Now that we know that Survive! counts refunded orders as "Complete", we can't tell how much progress they actually make on older orders. They also decided to remove overall progress from the Production schedule. I have no idea why they would want to do that. :rolleyes:

They included progress on new orders in 2023. Not much progress on 2021 or 2022 orders.

2015: 0.0% in 2 months
2016: 0.1% in 2 months
2017: 0.0% in 2 months
2018: Complete
2019: 0.3% in 2 months
2020: 0.3% in 2 months
2021: 0.5% in 2 months
2022: 4.0% in 2 months
2023: 15.6% in 2 months

ClMnYYW.jpg
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I read that as % of people who got refunds in the last 2 months
 
PirateSeulb said:
I read that as % of people who got refunds in the last 2 months
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Agreed. It's safe to assume that anything completed prior to 2020 is a refund. There's no way they're doing one or two knives at a time for those.

And we don't know if those 2023 orders are all their blemished sales.
 
Pomock said:
Apparently pre-ordering is still the bestest:

​

Why Preorder​

​
Preordering is the best way to ensure you're getting the exact options you want on your new knife, while also saving money.
  • You can pick from the full list of handle and sheath options and we will make your knife exactly the way you want it.
  • All preorders are discounted at least 5% off current pricing.
  • You don't have to worry about future price increases since your order is already locked in.
  • Guarantees that you get a knife from the upcoming production run, so you don't have to hurt your finger hitting the refresh button when extras drop.
  • Seriously! Our backlog is diminishing and demand is growing quickly. End of run blades are selling out fast and options become limited at the end of each run. We're working hard to scale up as quickly as possible but demand seems to be growing right along with us.
Click to expand...

Here is a post Guy made in 2014 after having issues delivering knives in 2013.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...t-here-reopened.1129652/page-26#post-13220475

"...We are getting on top of things and quickly...

...All I want is for you to have high quality tools, that you can use and enjoy for a lifetime, not wait a lifetime to get them...

...This is a new year and we're putting our best foot forward. I'm not saying that we won't experience growing pains in the future but the worst is certainly behind us. We have lots of exciting stuff on the production schedule and we're kicking the standard up even higher....

...Beginning with the new site launch, you will only be able to order things on the site that are in the shop and ready for immediate build or finished items that are boxed and ready to ship. We aren't doing any more preorder promotions of any kind. Ever. Production delays should be our frustration, not yours..."

The bolding and underlining are mine.
 
ncrockclimb said:
Here is a post Guy made in 2014 after having issues delivering knives in 2013.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...t-here-reopened.1129652/page-26#post-13220475

"...We are getting on top of things and quickly...

...All I want is for you to have high quality tools, that you can use and enjoy for a lifetime, not wait a lifetime to get them...

...This is a new year and we're putting our best foot forward. I'm not saying that we won't experience growing pains in the future but the worst is certainly behind us. We have lots of exciting stuff on the production schedule and we're kicking the standard up even higher....

...Beginning with the new site launch, you will only be able to order things on the site that are in the shop and ready for immediate build or finished items that are boxed and ready to ship. We aren't doing any more preorder promotions of any kind. Ever. Production delays should be our frustration, not yours..."

The bolding and underlining are mine.
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That last line is almost comical if it weren't so sad
 
tokerblue said:
For some reason, they did an October 2023 update recently. Not sure why they waited so long for an October update instead of doing a November update.

Now that we know that Survive! counts refunded orders as "Complete", we can't tell how much progress they actually make on older orders. They also decided to remove overall progress from the Production schedule. I have no idea why they would want to do that. :rolleyes:

They included progress on new orders in 2023. Not much progress on 2021 or 2022 orders.

2015: 0.0% in 2 months
2016: 0.1% in 2 months
2017: 0.0% in 2 months
2018: Complete
2019: 0.3% in 2 months
2020: 0.3% in 2 months
2021: 0.5% in 2 months
2022: 4.0% in 2 months
2023: 15.6% in 2 months

ClMnYYW.jpg
Click to expand...
Whose to say he ain’t lying about these production stats?
 
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