Bad Survive! Deserves A Permanent Post In The Hall Of Shame

[AbjectTestament]

If this were my first exposure to Survive I would probably have the same read, but it isn't so I don't. They (mostly Guy and Ellie) have done this sort of thing multiple times over multiple years: claimed fundamental problems with their business were solved and accompanied that by photos of knives and claims that orders were going out faster than ever.

You're right. I may be speaking to the choir here but for sake of discussion in a managerial professional setting "boy who cried wolf" isn't a valid defense. For example, if you have an employee who has filed 11 harassment complaints in the past and non of them were found, you're obligated to treat #12 as if it's just like #1
Survive! isn't owed that. No one here has to believe a word they say. Everyone here knows they've gone down this path numerous times. One could argue "but they're their own manufacturer now" but surely they've had excuses every other previous time. I'm biased because of my own anecdotal experience with them and what I think I'm seeing.

I'm skeptical, but even it it is true "faster than ever" is a relative term and it really only matters relative to the demand they are accepting and the lead times promised to those customers. Clearly Survive has not done a single thing to correct that and get them on the path to being honest about when a given customer will get the knife he ordered. With that sort of performance there is no evidence that the promises they are currently making will be kept either. In the example I've posted with the TSK my friend has on order with them, they have revised the ship date 5 times now with the most recent miss having something to do with not being able to fix handles they have on hand to the blades they have on hand in the space of 2 months. Is it possible that someone who has been making knives as long as Guy has is really that bad at projecting pace? Or is it more likely intentionally misleading?

Great points and great questions.

They are 2.5 years late delivering that knife yet they still claim it will be finished "more quickly". How delayed is everything else then?

Their communication is brutal. Placating people with "it till be ready next month" when it ends up taking 6 months or longer is terrible. I feel like they're in a position where they're comfortable fluffing off people because people have been so content to just shut up and wait instead of demanding refunds and going the distance to make it happen. If I had advice for them (Survive!) it would be to be brutally honest with customers and stop with verbal can kicks down the road.

If you look at threads from their old forum here, like The New Survive, or Hale Storm's disappointment thread, or ncrockclimb's concerns, you should find exactly the same sort of issues being described, exactly the same sort of excuse making (directly from Survive in these cases), the same apologists among their fan base. It all inspired the same hopefulness that maybe they really would get things straightened out. But they never did because they aren't capable of doing that. The pattern repeated over and over and continues today. Spark didn't accidentally close their forum here, they earned it.

No disagreements with me.

Just to be clear: I have no issue with their knives. I own several, most bought on the secondary market. All are what they were advertised as so it doesn't seem their deceptive tendencies extend there. I don't particularly care what they do with their social media or what sort of clothes they wear when doing it because I don't really care for most social media in the first place. I do care about there being bad apples in the knife industry. Survive and Guy and Ellie have clearly demonstrated that they are bad apples and I would like as many prospective knife buyers to be aware of that as possible.

Pretty much in the same boat as you. However, I've openly admitted (and readily prepared to accept ridicule) that I'm not that bent out of shape over their past behavior in terms of not dealing with them as a business. I'm not trying to sell them on anyone or champion their alleged rebranding. They had something I wanted, I took a couple of chances despite the evidence, worked out well for me. I'm fine with giving them my money at this time. Is it hurting the knife community? Possibly. This forum is my first exposure to the knife community and while there are some pretty cool people, elements, and rabbit holes to go down, there's also a ton of toxicity here and I see the community treating each other like trash so I'm not that upset.

 

[AbjectTestament]

Ok, so which is it? You keep saying things like the above bolded, and then come in here and make defensive statements (like the rest of this very post).

Which statements do you think is be defending Survive!? Maybe I'm the one not getting it. Is me saying it looks like they're improving their shipping defending them?

So, if they're worthy of ridicule*, why are you here attempting to ridicule people who are doing so?

I'm not. I ridiculed someone who I thought made a statement without first-hand knowledge (holding the knife) but I was wrong.
Please show me where I've ridiculed someone for their views and beliefs on Survive!, their history, or business practices.

You can deflect, and obfuscate all you want but the actual facts are, a super clean shop with clearly unused machinery is a pretty good sign that things aren't being made there. Soooooo.....?

Possibly. There's other videos from their shop with equipment that looks older and more used.

Big question, what's your take? Is Survive! faking these videos of knives being made in their shop? The knives are made elsewhere and they are shipped to Survive!'s shop and Guy has made a whole production (including buying expensive equipment) in order to fake videos and make it seem like these knives made off-site are actually produced by him? How much do you think they're paying this ghost company to make his knives and keep their mouths shut about it? Seems risky, one disgruntled worker at either shop could bring the whole lie down. Could it be Milet making the knives and all the trash talk is a cover?

I feel like you came in here trying to play Devil's Advocate from the beginning, but you lost the plot somewhere.

I was inconsiderate and didn't appreciate how frustrated and angry people were when I posted here. Read the room wrong and my attempt at a sense of humor was terrible. If I didn't apologize for it previously then I wholeheartedly do now. I posted with the intent of letting people waiting on their knives know mine was shipped and it seemed like they were starting to ship with a view to being hopeful. I have no problem apologizing when I see I'm wrong, admitting mistakes, and criticizing myself.

These people are scumbags, and they've had a ponzi scheme going for years, you've admitted that you understand this in this very thread.

So, why are you defending these scumbags?

I don't see my comments as defending them but maybe it's subjective (or I'm wrong and I don't realize I'm defending them).

And now you've flopped back to "I agree, Survive?Knives is bad!" mode. Got it.

I think I've been consistent with my views praising my own experience while condemning their past in equal measure.

One thing I want to mention. What even is this comment from you (above bold)? The insinuation that dogboye is somehow in the wrong for wanting what he ordered, and not something else? What? Listen, if I order something, and I receive something else, it's on the provider of that good or service to give me what I ordered (and what was agreed on), NOT on me to "at least give this other thing a try".

Nope. Wrong context. I accused Dogboye of assuming the 5.1 handles were bad without feeling it in person where I mistakenly thought they were different knives and handles. I was wrong.

I agree with you. I'm shocked Survive! would change people's orders without reaching out directly and asking customers for their position. I'd be pissed. This may be a bit of a sense of entitlement for lack of a better term stemming from customers basically giving Survive! the green light for open-ended delivery timings stretching into half a decade.

That's the sort of logic that a shill in here defending Guy's little trash shop would use.

Yes yes, very diabolical.

 

[Quiet]

Which statements do you think is be defending Survive!? Maybe I'm the one not getting it. Is me saying it looks like they're improving their shipping defending them?


I'm not. I ridiculed someone who I thought made a statement without first-hand knowledge (holding the knife) but I was wrong.
Please show me where I've ridiculed someone for their views and beliefs on Survive!, their history, or business practices.


Possibly. There's other videos from their shop with equipment that looks older and more used.

Big question, what's your take? Is Survive! faking these videos of knives being made in their shop? The knives are made elsewhere and they are shipped to Survive!'s shop and Guy has made a whole production (including buying expensive equipment) in order to fake videos and make it seem like these knives made off-site are actually produced by him? How much do you think they're paying this ghost company to make his knives and keep their mouths shut about it? Seems risky, one disgruntled worker at either shop could bring the whole lie down. Could it be Milet making the knives and all the trash talk is a cover?


I was inconsiderate and didn't appreciate how frustrated and angry people were when I posted here. Read the room wrong and my attempt at a sense of humor was terrible. If I didn't apologize for it previously then I wholeheartedly do now. I posted with the intent of letting people waiting on their knives know mine was shipped and it seemed like they were starting to ship with a view to being hopeful. I have no problem apologizing when I see I'm wrong, admitting mistakes, and criticizing myself.


I don't see my comments as defending them but maybe it's subjective (or I'm wrong and I don't realize I'm defending them).



I think I've been consistent with my views praising my own experience while condemning their past in equal measure.


Nope. Wrong context. I accused Dogboye of assuming the 5.1 handles were bad without feeling it in person where I mistakenly thought they were different knives and handles. I was wrong.

I agree with you. I'm shocked Survive! would change people's orders without reaching out directly and asking customers for their position. I'd be pissed. This may be a bit of a sense of entitlement for lack of a better term stemming from customers basically giving Survive! the green light for open-ended delivery timings stretching into half a decade.


Yes yes, very diabolical.

Listen, I am not wasting my time pointing out all the defending you've done in the past few pages. If you truly don't understand what you've been saying, or understand why it's being construed as defense of these scumbags, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

I will also state that you're still using bad logic. In the above bolded sections, you've stated twice that you accused someone of having an opinion without firsthand knowledge, specifically concerning the handle shape and length that has been changed. Do I need to actually explain your poor use of logic here? I had thought that my anecdote concerning dogcrap sandwiches would have been clear enough to discern, but I guess not.

Let me help you by reminding you that dogboye said this:

Now I’m still waiting for a 5.1, which I now see has had the handle scaled up as well, so isn’t what I ordered. It was supposed to be Delta 3V, but isn’t going to be anymore. Which isn’t what I ordered.

So, out of curiosity, what exactly did you miss about "isn't what I ordered"? What part of that was super difficult for you to understand? Of course, in the above post, NOW you say "I agree with you"*, but what I'm asking is: how did you miss that in the first place? I'm guessing it's because you're a shill with direct orders to defend S?K no matter what.



* You sure do seem to backpedal a lot when called on your nonsense.

 

[Quiet]

Actually, I had a moment, so I will point out your defense of Guy and Survive:

Come on, let's be real here. If Survive would have posted a video of a dirty workshop with noises going on in the background, people working, and Guy with dirty fingernails then everyone would have accused him of faking being busy for the video, having an unsafe work environment by being dirty or cluttered (and not caring about employees safety), poor video quality by having noise in the background and hiring fake workers. Guy couldn't even tell the time without Don't fuck with Cats levels of obsession.

By all means, hate on the dude and hate on Survive but stealing work shavings from a reputable maker and spreading them on the ground? You all don't need to be ridiculous to field accurate criticism here.

You're collectively worried about his apron. I wouldn't be surprised if he wore it on purpose just for Bladeforums to get worked up about it- and is getting a real laugh.

He did his hair for the video? Well if he wouldn't have had a fresh haircut I'm sure Bladeforums would have accused him/them of being slobs or using the money for drugs instead of haircuts lol

I'm surprised no one mentioned they have the same beard and hold their arms across their chest the same way.

This entire post is a defense of Guy and an attempted deconstruction and refutation of comments made concerning Guy's super sketchy videos.

Below is further defense of Guy where you attempt to insinuate that those critiquing the clean equipment and empty shop are the issue, not Guy, his clean shop, and obviously staged video.

Next the post criticizes Guy's apron and Shane wearing "nice" clothes. He's certainly not wearing business smart attire. Here's a video where Shane is wearing a T-shirt.

Guy most likely put on a Starbucks Apron for the video. Hardly jury convincing evidence there.

This is clearly a defense of Guy against comments made in this thread.

Should I go back farther, or do you get it now?

 

[scarysamcary]

I am thankful for members like Quiet

I just don't have the time or energy to call out POS trolls like he does.

 

[AbjectTestament]

Listen, I am not wasting my time pointing out all the defending you've done in the past few pages.

Okay just don't back peddle.

So, out of curiosity, what exactly did you miss about "isn't what I ordered"?

Maybe a little Hanlon's Razor. I missed it.

I'm guessing it's because you're a shill with direct orders to defend S?K no matter what.

So I've heard.


So what's the deal with Survive! then? You're suggesting someone else is making these knives at another location, shipping it to Survive! to label as their own.
Where do you think they're being made? In the US or overseas?
Do you think it's a secret deal with Milet?
What kind of measures are in place to prevent a worker at this off-site location from blowing Survive!'s cover?
Do you think they can trick enough people with their fake expensive machinery and fake shop set up to offset to recoup the money for that equipment? How many knives at $300 a pop would they need to sell to make a profit?

 

[Quiet]

Okay just don't back peddle.


Maybe a little Hanlon's Razor. I missed it.


So I've heard.


So what's the deal with Survive! then? You're suggesting someone else is making these knives at another location, shipping it to Survive! to label as their own.
Where do you think they're being made? In the US or overseas?
Do you think it's a secret deal with Milet?
What kind of measures are in place to prevent a worker at this off-site location from blowing Survive!'s cover?
Do you think they can trick enough people with their fake expensive machinery and fake shop set up to offset to recoup the money for that equipment? How many knives at $300 a pop would they need to sell to make a profit?

....are you serious? Do you not even know the history of the company you're ardently defending?

Go back and read through this thread. Go back and read through their old now-shuttered section. For many, many years, S?K didn't make anything. I have posted this exact thing multiple times on past pages of this very thread. Their blades were cut elsewhere, they were heat-treated elsewhere, the handle materials were made elsewhere, and the sheathes were made elsewhere. Guy's only job for years, years was in bolting parts together, fit/finish, and sharpening, and shipping out. That was it. That was it. Hell, that is why they joined Millitt at Millitt's shop in the first place!! Guybag used this move to claim that "not to worry, noooowwwww our knives will get made fast, since we'll be cohabitating with the company who actually makes them!"

Then, when nothing changed, like a year later, it's "We bought all these machines so we can make our own stuff! Mean old Millitt was terrible, they're moving out and good riddance!" Funny that, and of course, now they no longer offer the Delta 3V heat treat protocol, which is crazy, considering that's one of the things their "fame" was built on. A D3V knife for $230 or whatever it was back then.

Hey, maybe you didn't know any of this. Maybe you're just one of those people who hates a pile-on, and wanted to come in and argue for the other side. I don't know, and I don't care. But now you do know. So, now the question becomes: does it make sense to you now as to why all of us would be skeptical? This scumbag has a shop full of suspiciously clean machines, suspicious because they sure do seem to keep ginning up new models to sell, and huh, as you've said, some knives have shipped out, and those knives were certainly made from parts that were made somewhere, right? And yet, dude's got a squeaky clean shop full of new, unused-looking machines. So chances are good that they're not being made there (despite multiple newsletters claiming they're all inhouse now).

Candidly, I think anything is possible at this point. Maybe those blade blanks ARE being made overseas. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time (cough cough QTRMSTR) where someone claimed domestic production, for items clearly produced elsewhere. Also, who would blow their cover? The Chinese manufacturer isn't going to discuss their clients, especially if no one asked them about it. And there's only like four people working for S?K, and I'd hazard a guess that Guybag keeps a lockdown on that.
Lastly, are you seriously asking about profit, when the entire way they bring in new capital has been discussed ad nauseum in this very thread? I'd bet those machines are probably leased, but whenever the bill's due, they just make some noise about a new model and BOOM, the cash from idiots just rolls in.

 

[LastRodeo]

When did BladeForum's stop banning trolls?

 

[AbjectTestament]

....are you serious? Do you not even know the history of the company you're ardently defending?

I still don't see myself defending Survive! For the sake of argument let's say I am defending them and just don't see it.

I don't have to agree with something or someone to find a manner of criticism wrong or unfounded. "But their shop is clean". They have other older videos of stuff all over their shop. I'm not sold on the evidence that a clean-looking machine is proof they're lying and the machines are leased with the intent of just tricking people into buying more knives.

Look, a screwdriver at 1:33 that looks used. They probably stole it from a neighboring shop and placed it there to look used. And look at his t-shirt, obviously, he beats his wife. And it says NASA, someone alert Stolen Valor. He probably tells people he worked with Mark Rober.

I agree with all the criticism about their past and previous excuses and failed delivery dates. Trying to pick apart what he's wearing is goofy.
They bought (or rented or leased or stole or 3D printed) new shop equipment that is still in good looking condition on the outside. Sorry, not a smoking gun for me.

Go back and read through this thread. Go back and read through their old now-shuttered section. For many, many years, S?K didn't make anything. I have posted this exact thing multiple times on past pages of this very thread. Their blades were cut elsewhere, they were heat-treated elsewhere, the handle materials were made elsewhere, and the sheathes were made elsewhere. Guy's only job for years, years was in bolting parts together, fit/finish, and sharpening, and shipping out. That was it. That was it. Hell, that is why they joined Millitt at Millitt's shop in the first place!! Guybag used this move to claim that "not to worry, noooowwwww our knives will get made fast, since we'll be cohabitating with the company who actually makes them!"

And I'm curious what secret location they're making them now. Maybe we'll never know.

Candidly, I think anything is possible at this point. Maybe those blade blanks ARE being made overseas. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time (cough cough QTRMSTR) where someone claimed domestic production, for items clearly produced elsewhere. Also, who would blow their cover? The Chinese manufacturer isn't going to discuss their clients, especially if no one asked them about it. And there's only like four people working for S?K, and I'd hazard a guess that Guybag keeps a lockdown on that.
Lastly, are you seriously asking about profit, when the entire way they bring in new capital has been discussed ad nauseum in this very thread? I'd bet those machines are probably leased, but whenever the bill's due, they just make some noise about a new model and BOOM, the cash from idiots just rolls in.

Thanks for the candid response. Okay maybe they are having knives made in a secret location by slave labor for peanuts and those knives are getting secretly shipped to Survive! and they, in turn, are finally appearing to ship knives that people have been waiting on for years (unless Guy made fake social media accounts years ago for this very moment, which is possible too).


So that said, no one should buy their knives and should continue to criticize everything they do. If those knives (probably from China) do end up shipping then put them up on Ebay or Bladeforums and get your money back.

 

[AbjectTestament]

When did BladeForum's stop banning trolls?

You should PM them and tell them how to do their job.

 

[craytab]

When did BladeForum's stop banning trolls?

This one serves a purpose. Lets us keep our surfail! skills sharp!

 

[AbjectTestament]

This one serves a purpose. Lets us keep our surfail! skills sharp!

 

[JohnWE]

You should PM them and tell them how to do their job.

Would you mind leaving and never coming back here again?

We‘d really appreciate it, thanks.

 

[AbjectTestament]

Would you mind leaving and never coming back here again?

We‘d really appreciate it, thanks.

Get used to disappointment.

 

[r8shell]

"Get used to disappointment."

Great new slogan for S?K.

 

[shinyedges]

A member posted 1 page ago (87) he waited over 5 years for a knife from survive. 5 mother flipping years.

How any one can defend survive is simply mind blowing.

5 years. After advertising 90 days.

Glad they got booted. I'll continue to tell anyone who ever mentions survive what a crap company they are. I'm amazed they are still in business. Just imagine the excuses ellie has come up with for people waiting 5 years for a knife....

 

[craytab]

I'm amazed they are still in business.

I'm not. Look at the intelligence of their defenders. If people who know all the evidence still give them money and defend them, what chance does someone with no information have?

 

[Quiet]

I still don't see myself defending Survive! For the sake of argument let's say I am defending them and just don't see it.

I don't have to agree with something or someone to find a manner of criticism wrong or unfounded. "But their shop is clean". They have other older videos of stuff all over their shop. I'm not sold on the evidence that a clean-looking machine is proof they're lying and the machines are leased with the intent of just tricking people into buying more knives.

Look, a screwdriver at 1:33 that looks used. They probably stole it from a neighboring shop and placed it there to look used. And look at his t-shirt, obviously, he beats his wife. And it says NASA, someone alert Stolen Valor. He probably tells people he worked with Mark Rober.

I agree with all the criticism about their past and previous excuses and failed delivery dates. Trying to pick apart what he's wearing is goofy.
They bought (or rented or leased or stole or 3D printed) new shop equipment that is still in good looking condition on the outside. Sorry, not a smoking gun for me.


And I'm curious what secret location they're making them now. Maybe we'll never know.


Thanks for the candid response. Okay maybe they are having knives made in a secret location by slave labor for peanuts and those knives are getting secretly shipped to Survive! and they, in turn, are finally appearing to ship knives that people have been waiting on for years (unless Guy made fake social media accounts years ago for this very moment, which is possible too).


So that said, no one should buy their knives and should continue to criticize everything they do. If those knives (probably from China) do end up shipping then put them up on Ebay or Bladeforums and get your money back.

Well, that's fine. You aren't going to get it, which means you're either entirely oblivious, or being purposely obtuse. Neither of those are things I feel inclined to assist you further with. Good luck with all that.

 

[shinyedges]

I'm not. Look at the intelligence of their defenders. If people who know all the evidence still give them money and defend them, what chance does someone with no information have?

Frankly, if I had not witnessed the level of idiocy it takes to know a company is a shady shit show that may or may not send you the knife you pay for 5 years after you paid for it, and still give them your money, I would not believe it.

I find it disrespectful as hell. From survive, to spit on their customers by taking their money and then refusing to give them the knife they paid for, while selling knives to other people . Down right disrespectful and criminal if you ask me.


The level of stupidity it takes to hear 1st hand testimony/experience of that and still give survive your money anyway?!?
I mean, at that point why would you support that company? Is the knife so amazing you don't give a cluck who the company screws over? I think we've both seen through the years that, people give no clucks unless they are the ones getting shafted.

Wow. Just wow. I hope this dude gets shafted for 5 years. Hard. Maybe then he'll give a cluck.

 

[jlauffer]

Naw, it's separate issues. Survives history deserves ample ridicule, full-stop. No question about it. Making yourselves look ridiculous talking about how a clean shop floor suggests it's a setup is laughable.


If they didn't produce a video they would be accused of hiding from the public, not communicating, not taking part in social media, and so on.
And then they do, they should be producing knives instead. Appears like their 3.5's, 6.0s, & 4.5s have been shipped out. 5.1s and GSO 8/10/12s are coming up. I say appears because I can only gauge my opinion off of what I'm seeing. If someone who's waiting on a 3.5, 6, or 4.5 is still waiting then I'll eat crow I suppose.

Is anyone still waiting on those?

What you seem to fail to understand is that it isn't "history" yet, since it's still ongoing. If, and it's a very big if, everyone gets their knives that have been waiting years, and then they can go some years operating with no issues, then it can be called "history", and the argument could be attempted to "let the past go" and evaluate them on their current performance. But there will always be those that won't.