Survive Knives! Epic Faiure:

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You have screenshot of said "get your knife in X days guarantee" from Survive's site?

As a matter of fact...

Screenshot%202016-10-11%2011.59.00.png


You can see how generalizing can minimize one's own real feedback though right?

I'm really not sure I do see what you're saying here, at all.

Like above, feel free to post a screenshot of this "stated standard" so we know that you're referring to.

See above.

In reality, the knife didn't ship for well over a month.

Seriously, though, are you trying to call the veracity of my experience into question? It's exactly the same experience that everyone else who's participated in a Monday sale in the past handful of months have had, and in some cases my example is more fortunate — there seem to be folks who ordered around when I did, who're still waiting on knives. Anyways, mine is not a unique experience — there are many people who can and have corroborated what I'm saying.
 
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Excuse my using some younger generation. lingo... but..
Wow.. someone just got @#$ing wrecked!

Yep.. I can back up vouch for Timichango's screenshot.. and had (having) the exact same experience as him.
 
As a matter of fact...

Screenshot%202016-10-11%2011.59.00.png




I'm really not sure I do see what you're saying here, at all.



See above.

In reality, the knife didn't ship for well over a month.

Seriously, though, are you trying to call the veracity of my experience into question? It's exactly the same experience that everyone else who's participated in a Monday sale in the past handful of months have had, and in some cases my example is more fortunate — there seem to be folks who ordered around when I did, who're still waiting on knives. Anyways, mine is not a unique experience — there are many people who can and have corroborated what I'm saying.

I can back Timichango here because other people also posted screenshots in that thread that FA tried to destroy. This is a real thing that S!?K was stating on their site.
 
Who here has Factory seconds knife? Take a real good look at it. Do you see any imperfections with the steel or scales? I bet you anything the logo is misaligned. If it is send it back to survive knives and demand a refund and tell them you don't like being lied to and deceived

This one is a tier below their seconds. I haven't gotten the level out, but the logo looks fine to me. :confused:

 
Ugly Betty looks straight to me.

You have screenshot of said "get your knife in X days guarantee" from Survive's site?

B34NS, hi man. timi is definitely right about this one. The company went way over the delivery times given for the factory seconds that were sold via the Monday Sales method. I got in on the first couple of those sales and they went off without a hitch. I believe I got my 2.7 right at the stated 15 day mark. But the delivery on later sales has faltered, so that's what spurred this discussion rather than the starter/preorders with no guaranteed delivery times, which I believe is what you're referencing. Correct me if I'm wrong, and good to see you bud.
 
Ugly Betty looks straight to me.



B34NS, hi man. timi is definitely right about this one. The company went way over the delivery times given for the factory seconds that were sold via the Monday Sales method. I got in on the first couple of those sales and they went off without a hitch. I believe I got my 2.7 right at the stated 15 day mark. But the delivery on later sales has faltered, so that's what spurred this discussion rather than the starter/preorders with no guaranteed delivery times, which I believe is what you're referencing. Correct me if I'm wrong, and good to see you bud.


I ordered my 2nd Monday AFTER Timichango and the 10~15 day shipping was still up when I placed my order in September. I STILL don't have the knife. But what really chapped my ass was that WHILE I was waiting for my order, it looks like SK! updated their website to say "a few weeks" instead on Wednesday/Monday orders Not a few months, as it is STILL taking me and what they are currently doing. So that just proves knowingly putting out false lead time information. When I talked to Survive! they said it wasn't just me that ALL September sales where being delayed! Ok, so why did the website not change (when they changed it recently) to reflect this change in leadtime??? WHY does the website and point of sale advertising still say "a few weeks"?

I am asking rhetorically of course, we know the answer.. and it ain't "over opimism" or a mistake.
 
I ordered my 2nd Monday AFTER Timichango and the 10~15 day shipping was still up when I placed my order in September. I STILL don't have the knife. But what really chapped my ass was that WHILE I was waiting for my order, it looks like SK! updated their website to say "a few weeks" instead on Wednesday/Monday orders Not a few months, as it is STILL taking me and what they are currently doing. So that just proves knowingly putting out false lead time information. When I talked to Survive! they said it wasn't just me that ALL September sales where being delayed! Ok, so why did the website not change (when they changed it recently) to reflect this change in leadtime??? WHY does the website and point of sale advertising still say "a few weeks"?

Yeah, there seems to be a weird intersection between simply not having the cojones as a business to fess up and admit that they can't hit deadlines (and to consequently stop committing to them), and constantly falling into their own optimism trap. It seems like they periodically think they're going to do better, but then something else comes up, and they don't, and they don't even try to own or address that.

If you fail to hit a stated deadline, it should be on you — the business — to contact the customer and work out an alternate arrangement, or offer a refund.

If you simply can't project a correct timeline, ever, then you shouldn't offer timelines.

All of it speaks to there being a rock and a hard place that they're trying to squeeze between: it looks like they need cash, so they run the 2nds sales (rather than waiting until after the 1sts are delivered). But they're still bottlenecking somehow (assuming that special projects, like the limited editions, aren't causing delays — AHEM), and then those items get delayed.

So now, their initial commitments are getting delayed for the 2nds (because they need that revenue to bail out production for the preorders), but then the 2nds get delayed, so now they're in double jeopardy. But they can't afford to not give some indication of timeframe, because at that point, if you're not stating a timeline, then why not just add another presale or preorder instead, given that you've already lost your best selling feature (for that category of sales): instant(ish) gratification.

The stated timelines are/were an enticement to customers that wouldn't otherwise order a knife! I know this, because that's exactly what led me to buy my 4.7, and for a while, the Monday sales were being widely touted as the only way to get a knife in a timely and predictable manner.

Anyways: that's a very long-winded contemplation about why they're getting cagier around the wording on the Monday sales.

TL/DR: I think they're still trying to maintain the outward semblance of control over their production timelines, and ability to deliver the Monday sales in a timely fashion: a perceived quick turnaround is the only current way they can get a growing subset of new potential customers to pony up for a knife, and inject immediate cash-flow, given the now-common-reputation they have as taking forever to deliver anything.
 
Yeah, there seems to be a weird intersection between simply not having the cojones as a business to fess up and admit that they can't hit deadlines (and to consequently stop committing to them), and constantly falling into their own optimism trap. It seems like they periodically think they're going to do better, but then something else comes up, and they don't, and they don't even try to own or address that.

If you fail to hit a stated deadline, it should be on you — the business — to contact the customer and work out an alternate arrangement, or offer a refund.

If you simply can't project a correct timeline, ever, then you shouldn't offer timelines.

All of it speaks to there being a rock and a hard place that they're trying to squeeze between: it looks like they need cash, so they run the 2nds sales (rather than waiting until after the 1sts are delivered). But they're still bottlenecking somehow (assuming that special projects, like the limited editions, aren't causing delays — AHEM), and then those items get delayed.

So now, their initial commitments are getting delayed for the 2nds (because they need that revenue to bail out production for the preorders), but then the 2nds get delayed, so now they're in double jeopardy. But they can't afford to not give some indication of timeframe, because at that point, if you're not stating a timeline, then why not just add another presale or preorder instead, given that you've already lost your best selling feature (for that category of sales): instant(ish) gratification.

The stated timelines are/were an enticement to customers that wouldn't otherwise order a knife! I know this, because that's exactly what led me to buy my 4.7, and for a while, the Monday sales were being widely touted as the only way to get a knife in a timely and predictable manner.

Anyways: that's a very long-winded contemplation about why they're getting cagier around the wording on the Monday sales.

TL/DR: I think they're still trying to maintain the outward semblance of control over their production timelines, and ability to deliver the Monday sales in a timely fashion: a perceived quick turnaround is the only current way they can get a growing subset of new potential customers to pony up for a knife, and inject immediate cash-flow, given the now-common-reputation they have as taking forever to deliver anything.


For the Record..

Timi, recall after you received yours.. THAT is when SK! finally stepped in and said "there would be some noticeable improvements in fall" You recall I even went to their defense stating we should give SK the benefit of doubt. Indeed,when I ordered my MOnday(2nd) September I was giving them the benefit of doubt that MY knife would be different then yours. That MY order WOULD Be the 10~15 days because they had come on and said they were improving. So yes, I was influenced by the pointofsale 15dday leadtime AND their public announcement of improvements in the fall. I still have not received that 2.7 2nd. knife that had planed to give as a present for Deer Season. (sigh)

All that said, the LAW is very clear on the subject. The burden isn't on US to argue with SK or surrogates. And OUR cases are very specific. And I don't think it's too much to ask to at least follow the bare min. requirements of the law regarding sales,leadtimes. And yea I don't like that I have to use such heavy handed language like "the law", but we have seen that pleaded to SK, and arguing SK! Surrogates over stupid semantics ad nauseam has gotten us nowhere.
 
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Unfortunately, bringing legal authorities on board may send them into bankruptcy, rather than into line. Everybody would lose.
 
I've had several factory seconds pass through my hands: F2 GSO 10 x 1, 5.1 x 2, 4.7 x 1, 4.1 x 2, 2.7 x 1. I was fortunate enough to receive the first Factory Second GSO 2.7 that was seen anywhere on the forums, so that one would be an especially good candidate for this theory. None of them have had misaligned logos.

And I bet you nothing was wrong with the knife at all either huh?
 
I'm driving across the country trying to use voice text. I corrected the original post go back and look at it the problem with this form and I've said it several times is there are a lot of people here that are nothing but snitches. Look how someone contacted Peter's heat treating via email. You're not Sherlock Holmes. I highly doubt any of you are detectives. Maybe a couple of you or lawyers I have been through this previously and it ended up almost cost me a lawsuit. Feel free to look at my original threads that I started. I had a company come after me all because of snitches on this form. There was 14 people that contacted the knife manufacturer that I raised hell about behind closed doors when we were all negotiating this situation this knife manufacturer talk pure trash about this forum and the idiots that post here. That right there should make you not want to side with knife manufacturers and go above and beyond to reach out to them this company said that blade forums sucks and there's nothing but no it all jackasses is. That was the exact words. What I told you you take it as the truth or you don't respond to my comments on this thread. There won't be any bringing people out and having them post videos and send invoices and have multiple Witnesses claim in one thing or not. I'm telling you right now the factory seconds program that they got going on is all Bs. This company is going under. They took in all that money is taking them way too long to get these pre-order knives out and they're going bankrupt. That's the reason why they started pre-sales again for several of their more popular knives. People aren't going for it their sales have went down they're going to be going out of business. Keep buying from and keep supporting them see where it gets you!

I contacted Peter's heat treat to let them know about the baseless accusations you are making under the guise that it came from one of their reps. If that's spineless or underhand then I want to see the kind of shit you condone. This isn't "behind closed doors" you jagoff, it's a public forum where anyone and everyone can read and post with all of the 2 minute it takes to create an account. Maybe if you are afraid of lawsuits from companies you should stop writing checks your ass can't cash. Grow up, get a refund, and move on with your life. Nobody cares about your quest to destroy the evils of survive knives Don Quixote.

[I also saved you the time of whining to the mods and reported this post myself, have a great night, jackass.]
 
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And I bet you nothing was wrong with the knife at all either huh?

They are certainly very, very good. Nothing that would disqualify them FOR ME as firsts. However, I can find a common theme among them: very slight striations on the flag side. My guess was that they are perhaps grind marks that couldn't completely finish out and still remain in-spec size wise. That was the only thing I could detect between the seconds and the one new gen gso 5.1 first that I had. That particular factory first (can't speak to all factory firsts, that's the only new gen that I've been able to land) was near perfection. No grind mark of any kind that I could detect by eye after the peened-finish process.
 
I contacted Peter's heat treat to let them know about the baseless accusations you are making under the guise that it came from one of their reps. If that's spineless or underhand then I want to see the kind of shit you condone. This isn't "behind closed doors" you jagoff, it's a public forum where anyone and everyone can read and post with all of the 2 minute it takes to create an account. Maybe if you are afraid of lawsuits from companies you should stop writing checks your ass can't cash. Grow up, get a refund, and move on with your life. Nobody cares about your quest to destroy the evils of survive knives Don Quixote.

[I also saved you the time of whining to the mods and reported this post myself, have a great night, jackass.]

Billy-D_Approves.gif
 
I sure have ruffled a lot of feathers around here. That was my objective. Accept that your beloved company won't be in business much longer and move on with their simple lives.
 
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You ruffled the feathers of those who would be on your side. I'd rather order a S!K than have a drink with you....and I would never order a S!K...
 
I sure have ruffled a lot of feathers around here. That was my objective. Accept that your beloved company won't be in business much longer and move on with their simple lives.

If by "ruffled a lot of feathers" you mean "acted like a complete ninny with a chip on his shoulder", then yes, you'd be correct. Mission accomplished. :/

You are doing nothing to further anything. You are being the equivalent of a two year old stamping and crying in the corner because his favorite toy was sold out at the store.

Survive?knives has far from what I'd call a solid business plan. However, you are accomplishing absolutely nothing here. You're yelling and pointing at something everyone is already aware of.

Eventually everyone stops looking at what you're pointing at, and starts laughing at you because of your behavior.
 
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