Survive Knives! Epic Faiure:

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Just sent an email to Peter's heat treating letting them know their companies name is being tied to this BS.
 
timichango said:
It's the troll's thread...
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It is. And he is only here because we are feeding him... like I just did with my post.

The concerns about Survive!, both its lead times and the viability of its current business model are justified and very real. IMHO, first alchemy is a troll that is making unsubstantiated accusations that derail what should be a serious conversation and unjustifiably cause more problems for Survive! (and they have enough problems as it is).

Now it is time for me to take my own advice and stop feeding the troll.
 
ncrockclimb said:
The concerns about Survive!, both its lead times and the viability of its current business model are justified and very real. IMHO, first alchemy is a troll that is making unsubstantiated accusations that derail what should be a serious conversation and unjustifiably cause more problems for Survive! (and they have enough problems as it is).
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Hold on...I agree with you to a point. But it is not anyone's responsibility here make sure a company with problems doesn't have more problems brought to light. The number of problems a company has in on them, not us. No one has to "take it easy" on a company.

But...and here's where I agree with you...coming up with unsubstantiated claims about a company either positive or negative is not right.

Not right at all, to say nothing of uninformative.
 
I totally get your point and agree 100%. My bad for not being clear. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am not advocating sweeping anything under the rug. If there are MORE real issues, let's discuss them. I am not advocating taking it easy on S!K. However, I do want this to be a "fair" (whatever that means) and objective conversation about real issues. I have yet to see the OP substantiate anything. Without proof, the OP is just saying "stuff" that clouds the real issues.
 
ncrockclimb said:
Without proof, the OP is just saying "stuff" that clouds the real issues.
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I totally get your point and agree 100%. :thumbup: Neither cool nor constructive.

I mean, I'm trying to get my head around the whole thing because I like knives and find the knife industry (and what happens here on BF) interesting.

With the lack of much, if anything, definitive from Survive one way or the other; in addition to what are only opinions of both the pros and cons as to what is going on; the waters are muddy enough.

Coming in and throwing out unsubstantiated "facts" doesn't help at all.

Maybe its true...I don't know...but what did Pierre-Simon Laplace write..."The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness."

They are deliberately making blems?!? C'mon.
 
first alchemy said:
My informant uses Peter's heat treating he got his information direct from them. he's very well connected in the knife industry and he wouldn't just make up BS. If I was a small business owner and no way in hell I would come on a public forum and be held accountable for calling somebody out. Whether you believe me or not I'm calling like it is they won't be in business much longer I give it 6 months. This company deceives and lies to their customers. I've requested a refund almost a month ago and still have not received it I'm extremely aggravated to the maximum level with this company. There's no way in hell they could ever earn my trust our business again. guarantee that
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If you read the first line of this unsubstantiated insinuation, his 'informant', isn't someone associated with Peter's HT. It's someone who deals with them for said HT.
In other words......I heard it from a guy, who heard it from some other guy, who said it to someone else......you get the picture.
Either name names or drop this BS.
Joe
 
marcinek said:
They are deliberately making blems?!? C'mon.
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Exactly. They could do that without misaligning a logo, or deliberately botching the knife, too, so asserting that they're going to the trouble of forging a blem is pretty spurious.

Also, given that, to my knowledge, S!K laser etches their logos at their own facility, after heat treating, why would that be something that Peters would know about, in the extremely remote chance that it were true, and furthermore divulge to other clients?

For this allegation to be true:

1) S!K would need to be going through unnecessarily moronic and elaborate steps to create fake blems
2) S!K would need to be telling Peters about it, for some reason
3) Peters would need to be breaking confidentiality, and talking out of school to other clients about S!K business
4) The mystery recipient of this information would need to be breaking confidentiality and talking with our pal First Alchemy
5) First alchemy would likely need to be breaking his friend's confidentiality and blathering about it on the internet

I mean, it's not impossible that all of the above are true, I guess. But I'd sooner believe that I'll spontaneously learn to hover in the next 3 minutes.

These allegations are ridiculous, and cast aspersions on both S!K and Peters.

This is beyond feeding or not feeding a troll, IMHO. A lot of us want to see S!K revise their business practices, but only one person is accusing them of, essentially, forgery, and dragging another business into it. These remarks deserve and demand to be questioned. Hopefully someone with more ability to do so can intervene or clarify before it goes any further.
 
Who here has Factory seconds knife? Take a real good look at it. Do you see any imperfections with the steel or scales? I bet you anything the logo is misaligned. If it is send it back to survive knives and demand a refund and tell them you don't like being lied to and deceived
 
timichango said:
If it's not lying (as in knowing you won't hit a deadline, but stating it unambiguously, and NOT as an estimate), then it's repeated incompetence. You can't repeatedly make the same mistake and have it not be one or the other. You're either aware that you won't hit the stated deadline, but state it anyway (a lie), or you're not aware, despite never hitting the deadline (incompetence, failure to learn from mistakes). Is there any other way to interpret it?



Do you never buy anything from a professional looking business, assuming that their stated delivery policies are accurate? The vast majority of online purchases I've ever made came through on time. And those that didn't were the exception to the rule. Survive literally never delivers on time, so far as anyone's been able to ascertain.

Sure, caveat emptor, but at some point it becomes a bad business practice, and people have every right — and are in the right — to decry it.



I quickly learned about the estimated delivery of the 4.1 being highly improbable, so cancelled that order. The factory second monday sales were a different story. At the point of sale, those bore a hard statement — not anything that could be remotely construed as an estimate — that they'd deliver within a specified timeframe. They did not. Subsequently, specific commitments were made by Survive, to me (and others), via private communication. Also missed. That, again, is either deception or incompetence. What is the alternate interpretation of this pattern, if not those?

No: on the second purchase I made, I would not have purchased without the hard stated timeline. Therefore, missing it was either deception or failure on their part.

I'm not trying to blow this out of proportion — I'm just trying to clarify my view, as for some reason it seems folks are willing to forgive a lot of ambiguity and shiftiness from this company, that wouldn't remotely be tolerated from another business.



I was sold both, in fact. When you sell anything as a business, and make commitments to how your product is delivered, the entire experience is what's being purchased along with the product (warranties are in the same category of 'value-adds' or 'stated parameters' to a product).

If you consistently state that you'll do something as a business, and consistently don't, how exactly is that not rotten? How is that acceptable customer service?

Answer: according to just about every customer protection and trade entity in the world, it isn't. It's a failure to deal with your customers ethically and honestly.
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You have screenshot of said "get your knife in X days guarantee" from Survive's site?

timichango said:
You definitely can't, but I wouldn't expect any customer of mine to be happy if I wasn't meeting my commitments to them. If you fail to do what you say, that's not something that falls under the 'unsatisfiable customer' banner. That's plain business negligence, and breach of contract.
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You can see how generalizing can minimize one's own real feedback though right?

timichango said:
Yes. Deception is a form of bad communication. If they hadn't stated hard timelines, I wouldn't feel that they'd been negligent or deceiving, since there would be no stated standard that they'd failed to achieve. And absent a stated standard, I would not have placed a second order.

Pretty cut and dry.
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Like above, feel free to post a screenshot of this "stated standard" so we know that you're referring to.
 
first alchemy said:
Who here has Factory seconds knife? Take a real good look at it. Do you see any imperfections with the steel or scales? I bet you anything the logo is misaligned. If it is send it back to survive knives and demand a refund and tell them you don't like being lied to and deceived
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I certainly don't like being lied to.

How about backing up your claims with some actual evidence?
 
marcinek said:
I certainly don't like being lied to.

How about backing up your claims with some actual evidence?
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The only way this is going to come out is if survive knives admits to it. even if I was to get my informant to come on here and say that Peter's heat treat told him this... yall would still question it and say that ain't enough. I'm not going to get anywhere with this either believe me or you don't. I strongly advise any and all if you that have a pre-order or any type of order or waiting to be shipped there needs to be a cancellation and a 100% full refund. I'm warning all of you survive knives is not going to be in business much longer. you can love their knives all you want but you can not allow accompany that lies to and deceives customers. I know I don't do business with anyone that lies to me
 
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first alchemy said:
The only way this is going to get back is this survive knives admits to it parrot even if I was to get my informant to come on here and say that Peter's heat treat told him this yeah I would still question it and say that ain't enough I'm not going to get anywhere with this either believe me or you don't.
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I neither believe nor even understand you.

You made the claim....put up or shut up.
 
first alchemy said:
I'm extremely aggravated to the maximum level
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... in this and the other thread this quote (or a version of it) is really my favorite part. I keep seeing one of the characters from "Big Bang Theory" (can't recall the name) saying it. I am sure it is indicative that the poster falls on the spectrum somewhere less than ideal.
 
marcinek said:
I neither believe nor even understand you.

You made the claim....put up or shut up.
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I'm driving across the country trying to use voice text. I corrected the original post go back and look at it the problem with this form and I've said it several times is there are a lot of people here that are nothing but snitches. Look how someone contacted Peter's heat treating via email. You're not Sherlock Holmes. I highly doubt any of you are detectives. Maybe a couple of you or lawyers I have been through this previously and it ended up almost cost me a lawsuit. Feel free to look at my original threads that I started. I had a company come after me all because of snitches on this form. There was 14 people that contacted the knife manufacturer that I raised hell about behind closed doors when we were all negotiating this situation this knife manufacturer talk pure trash about this forum and the idiots that post here. That right there should make you not want to side with knife manufacturers and go above and beyond to reach out to them this company said that blade forums sucks and there's nothing but no it all jackasses is. That was the exact words. What I told you you take it as the truth or you don't respond to my comments on this thread. There won't be any bringing people out and having them post videos and send invoices and have multiple Witnesses claim in one thing or not. I'm telling you right now the factory seconds program that they got going on is all Bs. This company is going under. They took in all that money is taking them way too long to get these pre-order knives out and they're going bankrupt. That's the reason why they started pre-sales again for several of their more popular knives. People aren't going for it their sales have went down they're going to be going out of business. Keep buying from and keep supporting them see where it gets you!
 
first alchemy said:
I'm driving across the country trying to use voice text. I corrected the original post go back and look at it the problem with this form and I've said it several times is there are a lot of people here that are nothing but snitches. Look how someone contacted Peter's heat treating via email. You're not Sherlock Holmes. I highly doubt any of you are detectives. Maybe a couple of you or lawyers I have been through this previously and it ended up almost cost me a lawsuit. Feel free to look at my original threads that I started. I had a company come after me all because of snitches on this form. There was 14 people that contacted the knife manufacturer that I raised hell about behind closed doors when we were all negotiating this situation this knife manufacturer talk pure trash about this forum and the idiots that post here. That right there should make you not want to side with knife manufacturers and go above and beyond to reach out to them this company said that blade forums sucks and there's nothing but no it all jackasses is. That was the exact words. What I told you you take it as the truth or you don't respond to my comments on this thread. There won't be any bringing people out and having them post videos and send invoices and have multiple Witnesses claim in one thing or not. I'm telling you right now the factory seconds program that they got going on is all Bs. This company is going under. They took in all that money is taking them way too long to get these pre-order knives out and they're going bankrupt. That's the reason why they started pre-sales again for several of their more popular knives. People aren't going for it their sales have went down they're going to be going out of business. Keep buying from and keep supporting them see where it gets you!
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Dude you shouldn't be reading forum posts if you are driving.
 
first alchemy said:
Who here has Factory seconds knife? Take a real good look at it. Do you see any imperfections with the steel or scales? I bet you anything the logo is misaligned. If it is send it back to survive knives and demand a refund and tell them you don't like being lied to and deceived
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I've had several factory seconds pass through my hands: F2 GSO 10 x 1, 5.1 x 2, 4.7 x 1, 4.1 x 2, 2.7 x 1. I was fortunate enough to receive the first Factory Second GSO 2.7 that was seen anywhere on the forums, so that one would be an especially good candidate for this theory. None of them have had misaligned logos.
 
first alchemy said:
I'm driving across the country trying to use voice text. I corrected the original post go back and look at it the problem with this form and I've said it several times is there are a lot of people here that are nothing but snitches. Look how someone contacted Peter's heat treating via email. You're not Sherlock Holmes. I highly doubt any of you are detectives. Maybe a couple of you or lawyers I have been through this previously and it ended up almost cost me a lawsuit. Feel free to look at my original threads that I started. I had a company come after me all because of snitches on this form. There was 14 people that contacted the knife manufacturer that I raised hell about behind closed doors when we were all negotiating this situation this knife manufacturer talk pure trash about this forum and the idiots that post here. That right there should make you not want to side with knife manufacturers and go above and beyond to reach out to them this company said that blade forums sucks and there's nothing but no it all jackasses is. That was the exact words. What I told you you take it as the truth or you don't respond to my comments on this thread. There won't be any bringing people out and having them post videos and send invoices and have multiple Witnesses claim in one thing or not. I'm telling you right now the factory seconds program that they got going on is all Bs. This company is going under. They took in all that money is taking them way too long to get these pre-order knives out and they're going bankrupt. That's the reason why they started pre-sales again for several of their more popular knives. People aren't going for it their sales have went down they're going to be going out of business. Keep buying from and keep supporting them see where it gets you!
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All righty.
thinking-008.gif


Well good luck with all that.
 
first alchemy said:
I'm driving across the country trying to use voice text. I corrected the original post go back and look at it the problem with this form and I've said it several times is there are a lot of people here that are nothing but snitches. Look how someone contacted Peter's heat treating via email. You're not Sherlock Holmes. I highly doubt any of you are detectives. Maybe a couple of you or lawyers I have been through this previously and it ended up almost cost me a lawsuit. Feel free to look at my original threads that I started. I had a company come after me all because of snitches on this form. There was 14 people that contacted the knife manufacturer that I raised hell about behind closed doors when we were all negotiating this situation this knife manufacturer talk pure trash about this forum and the idiots that post here. That right there should make you not want to side with knife manufacturers and go above and beyond to reach out to them this company said that blade forums sucks and there's nothing but no it all jackasses is. That was the exact words. What I told you you take it as the truth or you don't respond to my comments on this thread. There won't be any bringing people out and having them post videos and send invoices and have multiple Witnesses claim in one thing or not. I'm telling you right now the factory seconds program that they got going on is all Bs. This company is going under. They took in all that money is taking them way too long to get these pre-order knives out and they're going bankrupt. That's the reason why they started pre-sales again for several of their more popular knives. People aren't going for it their sales have went down they're going to be going out of business. Keep buying from and keep supporting them see where it gets you!
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Do you really have this much of an issue with logic? Look at what you're actually saying. Distilled down, it appears to be this:

"You guys are snitches. I made a bunch of allegations and accusations about knife companies who then took action after word of my repeated trash-talking reached them. THAT should make you not want to do business with them! I should be free to talk huge unsubstantiated garbage without consequence or repercussions. If you don't believe me, then you're WRONG!"

Wow, I can't do anything else but shake my head. If you talk trash and make up lies, then you should be prepared to be called on it, or, here's an idea: have facts to back your assertions.
 
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