The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

[Ilikesharpstuff]

A couple of questions if you all don’t mind.

what does 3 bears mean? My Hati gen 3, does it have the captive pivot? Is that just for disassembly? What’s the best way to disassemble if i don’t have the Shiro tool?

I’m trying to find vids or reviews of Shiros under hard use. Not abusive, just hard work.
I’ve only carried and cut soft things with my Hati like food, tape and cardboard. My real daily use would be layers if plastic wrap, cardboard, plastic straps, thin metal banding, zip ties, as well as soft stuff. Wondering what to expect under harder use

Hati Gen 3 does have the captive pivot, yes. It may have been the first model to introduce the new system if I remember correctly.

 

[Sagandavis]

Thanks for the detailed explanation ChazzyP ! And I Ilikesharpstuff !

I don’t plan on disassembling anything but it’s nice to know I can. I live in the high desert and have always steered clear of bearings because of sand and grit. A good buddy of mine raves about his shiros and I finally got to handle a couple of his and here we are… I couldn’t believe how light the Hati was! More cutting edge than a Spyderco military but the weight felt like a Bugout! Never been a flipper fan but that Shiro action is something unique and I really enjoy it.

 

[Bacchus]

One of the Anonymous Shiroholic Club members already disassembled his Stellar 1st Production -- the 3-row bearing contains 18 balls (3 less than larger models):

 

[Bacchus]

what does 3 bears mean? My Hati gen 3, does it have the captive pivot? Is that just for disassembly? What’s the best way to disassemble if i don’t have the Shiro tool?

I hope ChazzyP does not mind me adding a few links to the official site.

As ChazzyP already explained, there were 3 tiers (bears) depending on the features packed -- additional milling on the blade, M390-S90V-Vanax vs 440c-S30V-Elmax, carbon vs G10, bearings vs washers. 1M was the low-end, 3M was the high-end, while 2M somewhere in-between, either packing high-end blade, or more sophisticated pivot construction, or fancier handle materials.

The labelling also included R, RT, NS and was rather confusing.

It became obsolete, as 111 Gen 5 was the first one to get a more obvious "Generation N" labelling less than 2 years ago.

And Hati Gen 3 is just 1 year old, it's the most recent one. The official announcement is here, dated 2022-05-14 14:16 UTC.

Actually, a long-awaited CPS feature was introduced in this model (the inner thread looks awful, I wonder why it has not been cleaned up before taking macro pictures):

 

[DocJekl]

I don't really want to complain, but I'm still feeling pretty salty about having the Stellar in my shopping cart after dozens of 502 errors and slow downs, then choosing shipping, and then while waiting for PayPal to finally load they sold out... (see prev post with screenshots)

I turned around and bought a pair of Herman Sting with anodized scales in rebound But I still want a Stellar pretty badly, as well as an F3 Aquatic.

 

[Bacchus]

But I still want a Stellar pretty badly, as well as an F3 Aquatic.

If you’re inclined to smaller sized knives, I bet a Stellar might become your favorite.

Surely it depends on your palm anthropometry, for me Stellar is a sweet spot between NeOn and F3 -- perfect as EDC in city environment, even though I'm quite used to Large Sebenza 21 which feels more like F95.

Really hope they start making frame-locks with 90mm blades.

P.S. the color tone of the handle edges is closer to violet according to my naked eyes, but it looks more bluish through lens. Anyway it's not too vivid to bother, just a nice touch for a rather laconic design.

 

[DocJekl]

If you’re inclined to smaller sized knives, I bet a Stellar might become your favorite.

Surely it depends on your palm anthropometry, for me Stellar is a sweet spot between NeOn and F3 -- perfect as EDC in city environment, even though I'm quite used to Large Sebenza 21 which feels more like F95.

Really hope they start making frame-locks with 90mm blades.

P.S. the color tone of the handle edges is closer to violet according to my naked eyes, but it looks more bluish through lens. Anyway it's not too vivid to bother, just a nice touch for a rather laconic design.

Usually 3.3" to 3.5" blades with approx 3.75" - 4.25" handles are my sweet spot.

So my NeOn NL and HatiOn Zero are right there, and the Stellar is pretty close, while my R1P, F3, and F95 are just a little bigger than I usually pick.

 

[ChazzyP]

Certainly don't mind at all, B Bacchus , as those are good adds to the narrative as many have been confused by Shiro's various categorizations of their models over the years, earlier with the Bears system, then more recently with the R (renewed) designation, and ongoing with knife iterations categorized as NS (New Series). Here's a link to a post in this thread by mikomonday , a very knowledgeable Shiro collector, speaking to the fading Bears labeling and the emergence of R Series knives. It's also worth noting that no knives sold through the authorized North American dealer carried Bears categorizations and only knives sourced directly from the workshop had the white COAs such as the one pictured on the previous page in my post #4700. I also believe that those familiar black vertical COAs that originated around the same time were filled out on this side of the pond.

For a little more on the Bears categories, here's a quote from Shiro rep Tom in a USN PM exchange we had some years ago:

"To keep it simple, let's use the pivot system as our way to class the knives into different categories (though it is not the only exception, it's an easy rule of thumb to follow).

3 bears - MRBS (multi-row bearing system) with a steel underlay. For example, all of our R models
2 bears - MRBS without the steel underlay. For example, NeOn Lite and HatiOn Lite OR SRBS (single-row bearing system) with CF handles/scales.
1 bear - SRBS (single row bearing system) or washers with G10 scales.

If you look at our current/recent output, we have been channeling our efforts towards folders in three- and one-bears categories. The only notable exception is NeOn/HatiOn Lite, which is a 2-bears model."

I did have more from Tom in another message with more defining characteristics as well as some listing of which models were which, but I can't find it on my laptop right now, and anything posted over at USN (V1) is now gone.

Of course there are more characteristics that defined each category, not a few of them at least somewhat overlapping. As mikomonday referenced in his linked post, the 2 Bears category was the "murkiest" as some of the knives thusly included had features that defined other Bears groups--the NeOn's and 111's of that period, both 2 Bears knives, were MRBS, and the 111's all had one underlay washer.

Finally, of note in reference to your post, aside from including Shiros on washers, all (Edit--some) SRBS knives of that period were also considered 1 Bear models.

 

[Officer's Match]

Well, even though my brain can't understand how roller bearing work given the outside and inside have to "slide", I now know my brain is wrong. Got this F3NS from a friend and it has Dept. 13 cf scales (amazing) and single row roller bearings installed. This action is absolutely unbelievable - best I have ever experienced as a fairly experienced knife junkie.

 

[Terry M.]

Had to post my carry for the day here

 

[Bacchus]

Friday theme

 

[Jsega51]

Between this F95 and the updated Zero, the older style has the crisper and cleaner action in my mind.

 

[Sagandavis]

This is becoming a problem

 

[Terry M.]

Finally got my hands on a dark version of the Bio

 

[DocJekl]

Finally got my hands on a dark version of the Bio

View attachment 2214308
View attachment 2214309

I like the scale pattern.

I'm out until I can snag a Stellar, plus an Aquatic to go with my Terrus.

 

[Bacchus]

Nudist family — neat, but handsome

 

[Jsega51]

B Bacchus , I didn’t care for the size of the Neon too much, it’s a very capable knife and I carried one for a while but found it just on the small side of the aisle for me. Looks like the new Stellar model fills the gap between the Neon and F95 nicely. Would you mind posting a pic at some point with the blades out and pivots all at the same end to show some more comparison between the three of those? I appreciate it!

 

[marchone]

B Bacchus , I didn’t care for the size of the Neon too much, it’s a very capable knife and I carried one for a while but found it just on the small side of the aisle for me. Looks like the new Stellar model fills the gap between the Neon and F95 nicely. Would you mind posting a pic at some point with the blades out and pivots all at the same end to show some more comparison between the three of those? I appreciate it!

I’m in agreement about the Neon. I use it around the house a lot but never carry it. I’ve come to the conclusion it would be improved by 1mm to 2mm thicker scales. 11mm to 13mm is a fair difference. I need to check out the Stellar.

 

[Bacchus]

I didn’t care for the size of the Neon too much, it’s a very capable knife and I carried one for a while but found it just on the small side of the aisle for me. Looks like the new Stellar model fills the gap between the Neon and F95 nicely.

As much as I love R20, there's no way to ignore the hard truth -- NeOn is a tiny bit small for my palm, at least to open and close comfortably. It feels rather awkward to operate with right hand (I'm not a lefty). Without a lanyard I'd risk to drop it on the ground sooner or later.

A symmetrical milling on the inside of the opposite scale would make disengaging the lock way easier -- it's a nice feature of Stellar.

Would you mind posting a pic at some point with the blades out and pivots all at the same end to show some more comparison between the three of those? I appreciate it!

Jsega51 , voilà

With the naked eye they look more or less as advertised: 85mm > 90mm > 95mm.

The difference between Stellar and F95Z seems smaller on the picture, but it might be due to lens distortion. Unfortunately I don't have anything with a proper grid on it (like a cutting mat) around.

 

[Jsega51]

B Bacchus thanks! That’s a great look at the increase in size from small to large. Like marchone and you said, the Neon feels a bit thin and a little undersized while operating it, I found the same to be true with the small Sebenzas so I prefer the large there as well. I think I’d like the Stellar a lot and am happy they went that direction.