The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

[george65]

is the neon mkII bigger than a regular neon?

if so, what are the specs?

here are my shirogorov - both elmax

 

[mikomonday]

What exactly does one do to win FOUR lotteries???

2 friends, 5 entries in total over 2 days and 4 draws. I know it sounds crazy isn't it? But it's not fun for your wallet after the second time I swear lol.

is the neon mkII bigger than a regular neon?

Very good observation. The blade is a couple mm longer. One of the things the workshop pointed out at the booth. The Mk2 is longer w/ a cool backspacer that wraps around the tip. Here is a comparison picture:

 

[Jhileman79]

is the neon mkII bigger than a regular neon?

if so, what are the specs?

here are my shirogorov - both elmax

Very nice! My next Knife will be a neon. I want to find a m390 or s90v.

 

[Jesse Allen]

Thought I’d share my thoughts on my Shiro Neon. I never planned on buying one of these but one showed up for a great price at the right time.
There are so many great things about this knife. The ergonomics are great and fits my hand perfectly. I love the thinness of it, it feels as thin as my Benchmade Bugout and slightly thinner than my Small Sebenza.
I really love everything about the blade. Such a utilitarian blade shape with thin stock and very thin behind the edge. I like the blade finish, it’s different to any other knife I’ve had.
The action, where do i start? If you close your eyes, you can’t feel the disengagement blade swinging down into the handle. It’s so smooth, in a way that’s hard to describe. You really need to handle one to understand, videos don’t capture that glassy smooth action.
One thing I found isn’t discussed as much when talking about Shiros, is the beautiful disengagement. It’s so easy and smooth to disengage. The first time I flipped it and disengaged the lockbar I thought it would have blade play, but nope, lock up is solid.
Unfortunately this knife has an issue with the lockbar sliding over to 60% (normal lockup is 10-15%) with only slight pressure. At that 60% lockup it gets really bad lockstick. I’ve contacted Shirogorov Knives twice now but they haven’t got back to me yet.

 

[ChazzyP]

Nice new NeOn, J Jesse Allen , and welcome to the Bears' Den. Nice photo montage, too.

There has been some discussion in this forum (and in others) regarding lock bar movement on Shiros. Back at Page 44 there was some back and forth between TRfromMT and myself with input from @Ajack60 about this. TR and I agree that lock bar movement is a deliberate design by Shiro to prevent inadvertent disengagement under hard use in knives with somewhat early lockup. Shiro's blade tang interface angle is less than the approximately 7 degrees used by most of the industry. The steeper that angle, the greater the tendency toward slippage. A shallow angle is more secure, but will yield more movement in the locking direction under pressure.

The thinking here is that Shiro's design allows one to push the lock bar in further, providing ultra-positive lock up, consequently yielding a degree of lock stick. I've noted that my F95s, Hati, and NeOn all do this, though none require a second hand or tool to overcome said lock stick. You'll note that 95s and Hati's have a pronounced shoulder on the lock bar and that the NeOn has a very slight one as well. I take these shoulders to be positive over-travel stops to prevent locking the knives up to the point that they'd be way too difficult to disengage.

Personally, I find that no matter how hard I grip my knives, I can't push the lock bar over without deliberately doing so with my thumb or using my fingertip in a pinch grip. I have kinda weird hands, though--made thick and arthritic from almost 50 years in the carpentry trade, my forefinger doesn't really close against the lock bar in a saber or hammer grip.

 

[TRfromMT]

Shirogorov lottery wins at USN GX this year!

What's the second knife there mikomonday , the one with CF scales over Ti bolsters? Drop dead gorgeous knife, that one is.

 

[Jesse Allen]

Nice new NeOn, J Jesse Allen , and welcome to the Bears' Den. Nice photo montage, too.

There has been some discussion in this forum (and in others) regarding lock bar movement on Shiros. Back at Page 44 there was some back and forth between TRfromMT and myself with input from @Ajack60 about this. TR and I agree that lock bar movement is a deliberate design by Shiro to prevent inadvertent disengagement under hard use in knives with somewhat early lockup. Shiro's blade tang interface angle is less than the approximately 7 degrees used by most of the industry. The steeper that angle, the greater the tendency toward slippage. A shallow angle is more secure, but will yield more movement in the locking direction under pressure.

The thinking here is that Shiro's design allows one to push the lock bar in further, providing ultra-positive lock up, consequently yielding a degree of lock stick. I've noted that my F95s, Hati, and NeOn all do this, though none require a second hand or tool to overcome said lock stick. You'll note that 95s and Hati's have a pronounced shoulder on the lock bar and that the NeOn has a very slight one as well. I take these shoulders to be positive over-travel stops to prevent locking the knives up to the point that they'd be way too difficult to disengage.

Personally, I find that no matter how hard I grip my knives, I can't push the lock bar over without deliberately doing so with my thumb or using my fingertip in a pinch grip. I have kinda weird hands, though--made thick and arthritic from almost 50 years in the carpentry trade, my forefinger doesn't really close against the lock bar in a saber or hammer grip.

Thank you for your kind words and detailed reply.
I knew it was a common Neon issue but didn’t realise other Shiros have the same issue. The lockbar movement is an issue for me, it’s the lock stick that annoys me. I’ve never had lock stick on any knife, let alone an $800 one. Unfortunately it’s such an almost perfect EDC knife for me, now all my other flippers pale in comparison. Mine only gets the lockstick when the steel insert is passed and it locks on the titanium part.
It’s been weeks since I’ve emailed Shirogorov Knives and I still haven’t heard anything back.
I find the titanium slippery at times, so my dream Shiro is now a HatiOn. That CF would really help with traction.

 

[mikomonday]

Thank you for your kind words and detailed reply.
I knew it was a common Neon issue but didn’t realise other Shiros have the same issue. The lockbar movement is an issue for me, it’s the lock stick that annoys me. I’ve never had lock stick on any knife, let alone an $800 one. Unfortunately it’s such an almost perfect EDC knife for me, now all my other flippers pale in comparison. Mine only gets the lockstick when the steel insert is passed and it locks on the titanium part.
It’s been weeks since I’ve emailed Shirogorov Knives and I still haven’t heard anything back.
I find the titanium slippery at times, so my dream Shiro is now a HatiOn. That CF would really help with traction.

I'm not so sure about it being 100% intentional for the lockbar to be moved over as I have had many Shirogorovs both Custom Division and serial knives that have had and do not have the lockbar movement. One thing for sure though I've had Shirogorovs for over 2 years and my carry knife has not experienced any lockbar travel, and the lockbar will move over if you press on it hard enough. I flip the thing everywhere, in the office, car, at home as well.

What's the second knife there mikomonday , the one with CF scales over Ti bolsters? Drop dead gorgeous knife, that one is.

It's a Custom Division F3B. The B is for bolsters. Lightning strike carbon fiber w/ zirconium pivot collar and backspacer

 

[Casinostocks]

Dog darn it, you fellas! I knew that this was a bad influence sorta place to hang out at, populated with a bevy of enablers

Seems like I must now start searching for that missing-from-the-herd NeOn, in earnest! Bloody hell!!!

I'm a one trick pony and my loyalties happen to fall with one brand and only one brand. I don't know if there's a name for it in psychology but on the streets, this malaise is called fanboyism

Carothers Performance Knives (CPK) have filled the fixed blade thirst and now onto Shiros for folding knives. I sincerely hope that these two worlds shall never collide or else, I'll be too sad because I already know which one will win in their specialty field

Anywho, I just think that it will be a matter of time (when not if) that I'll be letting go of all of the 3 Spydies which I happen to own. It's not about the $ but rather the inability to focus on a multitude of different makers and makes. I truly take my hat off to those of you who have the ability in seeing the beauty in everything, even if the other folders which you own by other are only beautiful to your eyes

 

[ChazzyP]

Does your lock bar slide over during normal use or only when you make the effort to do so, J Jesse Allen ? Mine doesn't move over unless deliberately pushed across, so I don't find the resultant lock stick to be a problem. Again, I don't think it's an issue, but rather a deliberate design element.

Unless your NeOn is different than mine, the Ti portion should not engage the blade tang--just butt up against it laterally if pushed over, due to the positive overtravel stop. You'll note in the pic below most of the lock bar relief cut runs down the center of a flute cut along it's length. Moving from left to right, it's first turn exposes the conventional over-travel stop, the extension of the steel lock bar insert designed to prevent the lock bar from over-extending too far outward--in the negative direction. After meandering around a couple bends, at the business end of the lock bar, the relief cut moves to the right side of the flute to form the reverse (positive) over-travel stop to prevent the lock bar from being pushed too far in. That tab falls along the junction of Ti and the steel insert so that Ti should never engage blade's locking ramp. Any lock stick that occurs there is steel-on-steel.

If you continue to push the lock bar too far and the resultant stick bothers you, my guess is that it will eventually break in and smooth out. In the meantime, a bit of pencil lead on the blade tang will ease that.

The shadowing and depth make this pic hard to read, but here you can see the edge of the lock bar insert and the Ti lock bar tab up against the side of the blade tang.

 

[TRfromMT]

I hear you, Casinostocks . I know your staunch loyalty to relatively few makes with a solid track record for the long run. I could absolutely see Shirogorov making the very short list of brands to be rabidly loyal too.

Here's my dilemma... I am still hesitant to put my F95T to hard use. I just don't reach for it when there is an abrasive chore at hand (cardboard, carpet, grit-laiden materials, not abusive). Just can't do it yet, so I'm hesitant to add to the collection.

Having said that, I had to break down some heavy, double-wall cardboard boxes from a twin mattress set. It was maybe 30 lineal feet of cutting, and I used my CRK Inkosi. The edge is now dull. I am irritated that it didn't hold up any better than that! Irritated to the point of selling it and my umnumzaan and seeking out my next shiro! I may have to get over my hesitation to use this thing hard (for me, which is relatively modest) and knock the new off it.

 

[ChazzyP]

I'm not so sure about it being 100% intentional for the lockbar to be moved over as I have had many Shirogorovs both Custom Division and serial knives that have had and do not have the lockbar movement. One thing for sure though I've had Shirogorovs for over 2 years and my carry knife has not experienced any lockbar travel, and the lockbar will move over if you press on it hard enough. I flip the thing everywhere, in the office, car, at home as well.

It's a Custom Division F3B. The B is for bolsters. Lightning strike carbon fiber w/ zirconium pivot collar and backspacer

My assertion that the ability to "over-lock" the knife is a design element is based on the common behavior of my 4 Shiro framelocks--an admittedly small sample size. The positive over-travel tab adds to my conjecture. My 2 others--a 111 and an F3--do not share either that behavior or design. I certainly don't dispute your experience with your Shiros, Miko, nor your opinion. Just sayin', is all.

I've used my Turtle regularly and fairly hard as a work knife and despite a bazillion opening/closing cycles, the lock-up point has not moved noticeably in 2 years. The only one of my 6 that's changed is my F3 Python which I deliberately altered as it was sometimes early enough to slip.

That F3B is really sweet, man. It reminds me a bit of the bolstered 110 that began @anvil_den 's collection.

TRfromMT , don't be mad at your Inkosi. You know that their heat-treat is softer to make sharpening easier. What you need, brother, is more Shiros so you can use one or more hard. My Turtle flies through boxes and keeps on cutting'.

 

[TRfromMT]

ChazzyP do you know where Shiro runs their blades for hardness?

 

[Casinostocks]

I hear you, Casinostocks . I know your staunch loyalty to relatively few makes with a solid track record for the long run. I could absolutely see Shirogorov making the very short list of brands to be rabidly loyal too.

Here's my dilemma... I am still hesitant to put my F95T to hard use. I just don't reach for it when there is an abrasive chore at hand (cardboard, carpet, grit-laiden materials, not abusive). Just can't do it yet, so I'm hesitant to add to the collection.

Having said that, I had to break down some heavy, double-wall cardboard boxes from a twin mattress set. It was maybe 30 lineal feet of cutting, and I used my CRK Inkosi. The edge is now dull. I am irritated that it didn't hold up any better than that! Irritated to the point of selling it and my umnumzaan and seeking out my next shiro! I may have to get over my hesitation to use this thing hard (for me, which is relatively modest) and knock the new off it.

Tony, I just got lucky that one of my "grail" Shiros showed up when I had some relative liquidity (the 111 CF with Vanax 37) but admittedly, not much about that knife lends itself to being a user for my purposes. Call me tacti-cool if you must ( ) but that's my biggest / baddest MoFo hiking folder!

Then the 95T showed up and although not the exact combo that I wanted but still the M390 iteration was no slouch to dismiss so when When I received it, I decided that it was going to be a user. I absolutely get your reluctance and trepidations about putting your 95T to some hard use because we both know that you would eventually need to start maintaining it although no where as crucially as the constant TLC that CRKs would require. IIRC, I have had a total of 5 different CRKs going through my hands and none of them really impressed me when it came to their steel, their HT, the hollow grind with the slightly convexed edge. I had the exact same problem as you when early in the spring I cut up a large and heavily corrugated box. My Wilson Combat Startac became a butter knife half the way through!

I have known you for a while now and I think that you're pretty adept at seeking, searching and biding your time till the right knife deal comes around. I'm sure that using them for tougher jobs will become more of a second nature to you if & when you decide to sell your other folders, wheel / deal in order to acquire another Shiro or more. For me, the choices are simple as I'm kinda over handle scales with inlays or hybrid scales (CF/Ti, G10/Ti). I like CF and I like Ti but separately, so that kinda limits me in my choices and thank goodness for that or else, I'd go broke!

 

[marcus52AR]

I hear you, Casinostocks . I know your staunch loyalty to relatively few makes with a solid track record for the long run. I could absolutely see Shirogorov making the very short list of brands to be rabidly loyal too.

Here's my dilemma... I am still hesitant to put my F95T to hard use. I just don't reach for it when there is an abrasive chore at hand (cardboard, carpet, grit-laiden materials, not abusive). Just can't do it yet, so I'm hesitant to add to the collection.

Having said that, I had to break down some heavy, double-wall cardboard boxes from a twin mattress set. It was maybe 30 lineal feet of cutting, and I used my CRK Inkosi. The edge is now dull. I am irritated that it didn't hold up any better than that! Irritated to the point of selling it and my umnumzaan and seeking out my next shiro! I may have to get over my hesitation to use this thing hard (for me, which is relatively modest) and knock the new off it.

As much as I enjoy my insingo, if I were having a cardboard cutting comp I know which one would win.



Also great as a fidget item whilst travelling in elevators.

 

[ChazzyP]

ChazzyP do you know where Shiro runs their blades for hardness?

I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep, so to tire myself out again I scanned a bunch of pages at USN trying find the brief list of HRCs I remembered seeing there. What I found from the Shiro rep, posted a couple years ago was:
S30V: 59-60
M390: 60-62
S90V: 58-59
440C: 58-59
Elmax: 59-60 HRC

I'm headed back to bed....

 

[mikomonday]

My assertion that the ability to "over-lock" the knife is a design element is based on the common behavior of my 4 Shiro framelocks--an admittedly small sample size. The positive over-travel tab adds to my conjecture. My 2 others--a 111 and an F3--do not share either that behavior or design. I certainly don't dispute your experience with your Shiros, Miko, nor your opinion. Just sayin', is all.

No offense taken, just that I like many others would definitely prefer that they don't travel but in my experience whether they do or not isn't an indicator that something is wrong with your knife

And for all the experience I've heard with Shiro's S30V, it definitely is quite the performer especially compared to other manufacturer's heat treats on the same steel

 

[TRfromMT]

Did a little wheeling and dealing tonight and am now waiting for the arrival of an F95 with CF inlaid handles and M390. I'm somewhere between savoring the anticipation and already irritated that it's going to be a few days....

 

[CPP]

Did a little wheeling and dealing tonight and am now waiting for the arrival of an F95 with CF inlaid handles and M390. I'm somewhere between savoring the anticipation and already irritated that it's going to be a few days....

time for some non-stop tracking

 

[ChazzyP]

Did a little wheeling and dealing tonight and am now waiting for the arrival of an F95 with CF inlaid handles and M390. I'm somewhere between savoring the anticipation and already irritated that it's going to be a few days....

Is it this one ? That's a very sweet, older F95, and that CF looks A+. I really like my F95R with its 3.5mm blade, but my older F95T is a particular favorite and one of my best work users. SRBS knives fire out really fast and my Turtle is the most drop-shutty of all my knives--been like that since it came out of the box brand-new. Unreal action.

CB is a good dude and used to be around the forums a lot, but now just pops up here and there selling a knife or two from his exceptional collection. If that's the knife, you can expect a good one. I'm not helping with the anticipation, am I?