Trade deal gone bad...opinions requested.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something... one of the knives sechip sent had scratches on it that were not visible in the photos and were not disclosed... correct?


Kevin receives the knife and sees the scratches and wants to trade back correct?

Sechip doesn't want to trade back even though his photos never showed the marks and he never told Kevin about them... hmm

What am I missing?
 
kevin5 said:
Excuse me gentlemen but how could the transaction have taken place on ebay? It was a trade? There was no money exchanged and ebay was not involved in the transaction. How could this in anyway be perceived as an ebay deal? Our first point of contact was here on BF and my phone number was posted both in that ad as well as a standing ebay ad. I can say that he used his BF feedback and reputation in order to validate him receiving my knife first which I obliged due to his positive feedback here.
Click to expand...

This indeed is the point I was trying to get at. The deal was not done through ebay or there would be a record of it with them and if it was a purchase the OP could have gotten his money back very easily. Ebay doesn't do trades. Further, contact outside the ebay system in an ebay sale is a big no no. Both parties are guilty of breaking one of the biggest cardinal sins on ebay. This just gets more foul smelling.

The deal was not done through ebay, so where was it done through? If feedback from blade forums was used as evidence to commission the trade then it would make perfect sense for that same itrader feedback be the place feedback is left.

Mistakes were made on both sides. If everything can be made right then the feedback should be changed. That doesn't change what has gone on here in this thread. Folks should be searching here first before they do any trades or custom/pimping orders. The GB&U is a great resource.
 
Just to clarify, could Seachip please explain why he would not agree to just send everything back (especially with the OPs offer of covering all costs and advising immediately on receipt)?

I just can't understand that part, and in reviewing the thread that is not addressed and seems to be the main point as to why all this started.
 
Also clarify why the scratches were not disclosed to begin with....

If he disclosed the scratches this entire ordeal would have been avoided.

Gastonknife said:
Just to clarify, could Seachip please explain why he would not agree to just send everything back (especially with the OPs offer of covering all costs and advising immediately on receipt)?

I just can't understand that part, and in reviewing the thread that is not addressed and seems to be the main point as to why all this started.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I just want to make something absolutely clear. THIS TRANSACTION DID NOT TAKE PLACE ON EBAY. In fact it is impossible to do a trade deal using the eBay system. What Scott said is that he got my contact information on eBay as I had my cell phone number posted in the auction. However I also had my cell phone number posted in my AD here on BF and I also got 2 PMs from him(which I still have in my inbox) from 2 weeks ago regarding this knife and doing a trade. He also used his feedback here to justify me sending my knife to him first before he shipped his knives to me and of course I agreed because his feedback looked good and he seemed like a nice guy during our conversations. Once a deal was agreed to I ended my item on eBay as the knife was no longer available just as I would have if I made a deal with someone else who contacted me via BF(which he did twice regarding this knife). How this could be construed as an eBay transaction when eBay doesn't even offer trade deals is beyond me.

Anyway again, thanks for all of your responses. I apologize for stirring the pot here on the forum, this outcome was certainly not my intention. I just assumed that in a trade deal if both parties weren't happy it was an unwritten rule that a trade back is in order of course at the expense of the unhappy party which is what I offered right away. When I was told no, I started to question his intent since he was so quick to just say 'tough luck', that is when I looked up his activity here and found out that the photos he'd texted me of the knife were uploaded 6 months ago and who knows how long before that they were actually taken. At that point it made sense why the condition wasn't the same and perhaps why he was so adamant not to offer a trade back. However at this point he has agreed to do a trade back, and I feel like its the right thing to do given the situation and we can all put this behind us and I know I'll personally learn from it.

I don't know Scott very well, we've never done a deal in the past. We met first here on the forum when he reached out to me regarding this knife and then again via text which he claims he got from my eBay ad but I also had my number posted here and I know he saw it because he sent me two PMs based on that sales thread. I'm not going to act as if I know him, I can tell you that my first impression of him was that he was a cool guy, he was great to chat with and he pointed me to his feedback here on BF which I felt vindicated my initial thoughts. As I said from the beginning I'm not trying to bash the guy or act like I know what kind of person he is. Obviously some of you do know him personally and I apologize if I've offended any of your with my posts. I was simply trying to state the facts of what happened. I can say in all honesty nothing I've stated here is anything other than the truth from my perspective and on my side. We all know that when trades are done over the internet its much different then doing a trade in person. We can't see and hold the items we are trading and therefore don't know 100% if we will be happy with the outcome until we do. To me at least it only seems right that if both parties aren't happy the deal is undone just as it would've been if he met in person. I would've gone home with my knife and he would've gone home with his. In this situation there was shipping costs which I offered to pay cover of course and again it's not like there was an elapsed time either as I had the knives in my possession for less than 10 minutes before texting Scott to make him aware of my discontent with the deal which is when I offered the trade back at my expense and with him taking no risks as I would send him his knives back before he sent mine.

Again he has now agreed to that trade back, I am just waiting on a moderator to get back to me to make sure the negative feedback I gave him can be expunged because if a trade back does in fact happen that it would be unnecessary to be posted.

Thanks again to everyone who posted, the ones who agree with me and the ones who do not, I appreciate it.
 
Gastonknife said:
Just to clarify, could Seachip please explain why he would not agree to just send everything back (especially with the OPs offer of covering all costs and advising immediately on receipt)?

I just can't understand that part, and in reviewing the thread that is not addressed and seems to be the main point as to why all this started.
Click to expand...

To be clear he has agreed to undo the trade at this point, however he would like the negative feedback I gave him expunged, but I don't see how I can edit it so I have contacted a moderator and am waiting for a response.

About why he wouldn't do it in the first place when I first requested it, he stated to me that it's because he feels like he did nothing wrong, which I actually agreed with at first, I thought perhaps his photos were just poor quality and perhaps our definitions of the condition differed which is always possible. He said I could've asked for more pictures and didn't and he feels like the pictures he sent accurately describe the condition. I personally disagree with this but this is how he feels. Then after some looking into it I found out the photos he sent me were uploaded 6 months ago and at that point I felt like I was a little mislead. Regardless of any of that though I still feel like if a trade deal is done and one party isn't happy and brings it to the attention of the other party immediately a trade back or undo of the deal is in order. Obviously he didn't feel this way, which I don't particularly understand considering he wouldn't be out anything as I was covering all fees associated, but everyone is different I suppose. I just figured that was how trade deals worked and I guess I was wrong, but that's how I would like them to work and I'm sure if the shoe were on the other foot he would as well.
 
kevin5 said:
I just want to make something absolutely clear. THIS TRANSACTION DID NOT TAKE PLACE ON EBAY. In fact it is impossible to do a trade deal using the eBay system. What Scott said is that he got my contact information on eBay as I had my cell phone number posted in the auction. However I also had my cell phone number posted in my AD here on BF and I also got 2 PMs from him(which I still have in my inbox) from 2 weeks ago regarding this knife and doing a trade. He also used his feedback here to justify me sending my knife to him first before he shipped his knives to me and of course I agreed because his feedback looked good and he seemed like a nice guy during our conversations. Once a deal was agreed to I ended my item on eBay as the knife was no longer available just as I would have if I made a deal with someone else who contacted me via BF(which he did twice regarding this knife). How this could be construed as an eBay transaction when eBay doesn't even offer trade deals is beyond me.

Anyway again, thanks for all of your responses. I apologize for stirring the pot here on the forum, this outcome was certainly not my intention. I just assumed that in a trade deal if both parties weren't happy it was an unwritten rule that a trade back is in order of course at the expense of the unhappy party which is what I offered right away. When I was told no, I started to question his intent since he was so quick to just say 'tough luck', that is when I looked up his activity here and found out that the photos he'd texted me of the knife were uploaded 6 months ago and who knows how long before that they were actually taken. At that point it made sense why the condition wasn't the same and perhaps why he was so adamant not to offer a trade back. However at this point he has agreed to do a trade back, and I feel like its the right thing to do given the situation and we can all put this behind us and I know I'll personally learn from it.

I don't know Scott very well, we've never done a deal in the past. We met first here on the forum when he reached out to me regarding this knife and then again via text which he claims he got from my eBay ad but I also had my number posted here and I know he saw it because he sent me two PMs based on that sales thread. I'm not going to act as if I know him, I can tell you that my first impression of him was that he was a cool guy, he was great to chat with and he pointed me to his feedback here on BF which I felt vindicated my initial thoughts. As I said from the beginning I'm not trying to bash the guy or act like I know what kind of person he is. Obviously some of you do know him personally and I apologize if I've offended any of your with my posts. I was simply trying to state the facts of what happened. I can say in all honesty nothing I've stated here is anything other than the truth from my perspective and on my side. We all know that when trades are done over the internet its much different then doing a trade in person. We can't see and hold the items we are trading and therefore don't know 100% if we will be happy with the outcome until we do. To me at least it only seems right that if both parties aren't happy the deal is undone just as it would've been if he met in person. I would've gone home with my knife and he would've gone home with his. In this situation there was shipping costs which I offered to pay cover of course and again it's not like there was an elapsed time either as I had the knives in my possession for less than 10 minutes before texting Scott to make him aware of my discontent with the deal which is when I offered the trade back at my expense and with him taking no risks as I would send him his knives back before he sent mine.

Again he has now agreed to that trade back, I am just waiting on a moderator to get back to me to make sure the negative feedback I gave him can be expunged because if a trade back does in fact happen that it would be unnecessary to be posted.

Thanks again to everyone who posted, the ones who agree with me and the ones who do not, I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Just so you know, that the "Scratches" are part of the brushed finish and ARE NOT carry marks, I guess it just depends on what light you hold it in, Like i said i did contact him TWO WEEKS ago about a possible trade on BF but was turned down so why would i recontact the SAME guy about a trade for the SAME knife that i was turned down earlier about?

I said that i contacted him after going through ebay listings that had a "or best offer" with a phone number so i texted him and his first response to me was " how did you get my number?" and i told him ebay and at that time i had absolutely no knowledge that it was the same guy i had talked to earlier.

Iv'e done almost a hundred deals on BF some of them documented some not and not ONCE have i sent a text to do a deal, I ALWAYS use pm's and email, it's true that once the deal was done I told him i was a member.

I personally think that in hindsight he just thinks he made a "bad trade" and wants it reversed by any means necessary. including starting this thread and the feed back.

I may have jumped the gun prematurely and would love to hear more opinions.
 
So the scratches are factory on a knife that expensive? That's why they were never disclosed? Idk if I believe a knife that cost that much comes with scratches like that. But ok.
 
shinyedges said:
So the scratches are factory on a knife that expensive? That's why they were never disclosed? Idk if I believe a knife that cost that much comes with scratches like that. But ok.
Click to expand...

They're more like swirl marks and not scratches.
 
Seachip, I am not taking any sides at this time; but I feel it would clarify things if you would just say why you would not undo the trade when he contacted you as soon as he got the knife and offered to pay all costs? Looking at things objectively, it would seem to be obvious that the condition of the one knife was not what he expected (not blaming anyone for that; could be mostly his fault for all I know) So why no return?
 
This pic shows the knife in the EXACT same condition as when it was sent, you'll notice how clear the script is on the gun so it's not like the pic is bad.

 
Gastonknife said:
Seachip, I am not taking any sides at this time; but I feel it would clarify things if you would just say why you would not undo the trade when he contacted you as soon as he got the knife and offered to pay all costs? Looking at things objectively, it would seem to be obvious that the condition of the one knife was not what he expected (not blaming anyone for that; could be mostly his fault for all I know) So why no return?
Click to expand...

Because i feel that i was upfront and truthful regarding the condition and the op just feels he made a bad trade in hindsight and wants to get out of it by any means possible.

I have the texts where he says i did not misrepresent the knives.
 
I disagree that the photo with the pistol shows the marks on that knife... go back to page 1 and take a look...

The light is blocking the scratches on that knife.

The light is hitting that pistol at a different angle and showing that scratch so no its not "exactly" the same. If I knew how to post the picture from page 1 right next to your photo with the pistol it would be glaringly obvious.

Without the glare from the light the scratches are visible.

sechip said:
This pic shows the knife in the EXACT same condition as when it was sent, you'll notice how clear the script is on the gun so it's not like the pic is bad.

Click to expand...
 
shinyedges said:
I disagree that the photo with the pistol shows the marks on that knife... go back to page 1 and take a look...

The light is blocking the scratches on that knife.

The light is hitting that pistol at a different angle and showing that scratch so no its not "exactly" the same. If I knew how to post the picture from page 1 right next to your photo with the pistol it would be glaringly obvious.
Click to expand...

I know what your saying but they are not scratches.
 
sechip said:
Iv'e done almost a hundred deals on BF some of them documented some not and not ONCE have i sent a text to do a deal, I ALWAYS use pm's and email, it's true that once the deal was done I told him i was a member.
Click to expand...

So did you use your feedback from BFC to help him understand that you are a legit trade partner? He has said you did.

Honestly though, I don't know what can be gained by further beating this horse. The knives need to go back. You lost no money in this deal. Chalk it up to a learning experience. The outside of ebay rules thing is another issue on its own. You shouldn't have done that and nor should he have agreed to it. Both are wrong. Don't circumvent the rules wherever you are; be it BFC, paypal, ebay, or your local community pool.
 
craytab said:
So did you use your feedback from BFC to help him understand that you are a legit trade partner? He has said you did.

Honestly though, I don't know what can be gained by further beating this horse. The knives need to go back. You lost no money in this deal. Chalk it up to a learning experience. The outside of ebay rules thing is another issue on its own. You shouldn't have done that and nor should he have agreed to it. Both are wrong Don't circumvent the rules whereever you are; be it BFC, paypal, ebay, or your local community pool.
Click to expand...

I agree, and as soon as he does what he needs to do i will keep my word.

Yes i did tell him about my feed back.
 
craytab said:
This indeed is the point I was trying to get at. The deal was not done through ebay or there would be a record of it with them and if it was a purchase the OP could have gotten his money back very easily. Ebay doesn't do trades. Further, contact outside the ebay system in an ebay sale is a big no no. Both parties are guilty of breaking one of the biggest cardinal sins on ebay. This just gets more foul smelling.

The deal was not done through ebay, so where was it done through? If feedback from blade forums was used as evidence to commission the trade then it would make perfect sense for that same itrader feedback be the place feedback is left.

Mistakes were made on both sides. If everything can be made right then the feedback should be changed. That doesn't change what has gone on here in this thread. Folks should be searching here first before they do any trades or custom/pimping orders. The GB&U is a great resource.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree, and would do so if I could but I cannot edit or delete a feedback post. A moderator has been contacted and I'm waiting on a response now.

As I stated though there was contact made here on BF before the knife was even listed on eBay and was only listed here as sechip send me 2 PMs here before contacting me via text on my cell phone. This is where it makes where the transaction actually took place a shade of grey. The deal took place over personal text on our cell phones, now I had my cell phone number posted here on the forum as well as on eBay. He claims he got my number from the eBay ad but he did contact me regarding this knife on BF as well about a week before he texted me. He absolutely used his feedback score here as a reference and I ended the eBay auction so therefore to me the deal was through BF.
 
sechip - you are getting railroaded. I understand wanting to "clean" the record, but you sent the knife as shown. If your blemished record isn't expunged then consider the deal done.

Eric
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top