Update on 7" knife test concerning MAD DOG.

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If we assume the balde is in fact a reject and that a former employee stole it then it is also logical to beleive they would need to steal more stuff to finish it and sell it to get the money for it.

Also I am not certain as to how the knife was aquired even though the dealer is a legit MD dealer. Who is to say the dealer did not trade for it or buy it second hand and not from MAD DOG? If someone called me and offered me a MAD DOG ATAK for $200 I think I might buy it. So the stolen story could be made to fit.



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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
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Gonesailing,

The email was part of an email he sent to another person. For obvious reason I can not post the entire email but he did say to feel free to share this information with me.

Here the part you are looking for, unedited. It is not the entire email but only the part you are looking for as the rest of the email is pretty insulting, not only to myself but many members here.

How do I know the knife is an illicit Ripoff?
Well, the knife in the cutaway picture has a big notch in the back of
the tang on the end. This is something I do to mark a blade that has FAILED
the heat treat for some reason or other. This notch mark means that the
blade is to be scrapped.


I had suspected that several of these had snuck out the back door
finished, as the numbers for chroming and handles done were sometimes
wrong compared to how many knives I was actually shipping out.
I never had any proof of it until now. Now I know for sure that it
happened, but I can not prove exactly who did it.


Very inconvenient.


They were also swiping holsters, but that's another story.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Are these things hard chromed before or after heat treat? I thought they were done after. I also understand that the handles are put on the tang in three pieces to make a block, and then the shaping is done. Mad Dog experts please correct me if these are not the facts. If this is true it means that MD chromed and handled a knife that failed the Rc test (and then maybe it was stolen?). The other possibility would be that someone stole the blade, finished it, sent it to be hard chromed, handled it in MD's proprietary top secret handle material, and then sold it to a genuine MD dealer. That's a lot of trouble for someone to go to for a couple of hundred bucks (we know the dealer didn't pay full retail on it).

None of this bothers or surprises me. I vote with my wallet.

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Paul Davidson

Them:"What's that clipped to your pocket, a beeper?"
Me:"Uuh....yeah, something like that."




[This message has been edited by Paul Davidson (edited 03 November 1999).]
 
All the above facts are interesting but perhaps the most interesting fact, if ture, is that out of all the ATAKs ever made, I get one from a member, who bought it from a legit dealer, who then aparently bought it from crook?

What are the chances of that?

Man I am going to get some lottery tickets this weekend!

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Mike
Thank you for the proof in the form of a quote.
The easiest way to find out has already been eluded to.
This is not rocket science, x-raying the handle is nothing more complicated than x-raying candy for foreign metal pieces.
If several people have their MD knives x-rayed, and they are all knotched, then
1. If mad Dog is right, tracing back to the dealer, and distributer should help locate his theif. MD should be happy for the results.
2. If mad Dog is wrong, and all of the blades are knotched, then it seems we have found the theif.
Either way, it should be interesting.
Some how I don't think many MD owners are going to stand in line to get their knives
x-rayed. He seems to have an almost disciple like following. I hope I am wrong.
JIM
 
Mike, (or anybody else)

Was I out of line with my observations? I get the feeling that's the case, from some of the responses.

Please let me know as I am honestly confused.
 
Also does anyone have any history to Kevin Mclung. He seems to have a lot of military/covert or some kind of background and someone said he wrote a book or something. I also heard he was some sort of operative with the CIA.

And someone mentioned an article in a magazine on Mad Dog knives. Where was this and when?

Maybe I should study his background more or what makes this man tick so I can better understand the 'ology behind his knives and him. I can't find his book anywhere, does anyone have a copy they could send me?

Any help would be apreciated.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Not from what I can see Pleconin I can take a hit
smile.gif


You meant nothing personal in your observation and that is OK in my book
smile.gif



------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Also Pleconin the knife test was planned months ago. The knife of the month club Busse was chosen by the members just in the last month or so. So you guys chose the knife in the BFC Store not me
wink.gif


------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
ARRGGGGGG>>>>

OK Those of you who want to post on KFC please do not start or enter into a flame war. That will not help at all and the thread will deteriorate to nothing more the diatribe.

This thread has 45+ posts and no flames! The flames are already cooking over there. Give Kevin time to regroup and think out his options. Of course one option is to simply ignore this thread. Remember according to Mad Dog I am a "Psychotic" person so he may actually beleive that. He may also be under advice to not respond to me in any way shape of form. Who knows but man that X-Ray idea is SWEEEEEET!

Shief nor pots clim ahf fine zxp gf shg9o zhvon38 sd8 3wqgf 0vyw 934 fs9.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com
www.gigandknives.com
www.macedirect.com
www.dragon-forge.com
The above sites are pure shamless plugs!
 
Good bad or otherwise I for one would be against using a "Real Maddog" for a second test. Regardless of the outcome of this test the bottom line is that this was a knife that was sold through a dealer. This test is fair when you consider that a buyer is not going to xray a knife before a purchase so this is a random choosing of what is available to the buying public. If you have ever read Consumer Reports, that is the very way they perform their tests. They purchase the item to be tested randomly off the shelf. This keeps things fair and practical. THis is an indication of what john and jane doe might purchase. Instead of lets say asking the manufacturer for a sample which then of course can be the very best example of that item but in no way indicates what the buying public would ever have a chance to own. In order to be absolutly fair to US the buying public I think none of the knives used for testing should be gotten from the maker with the maker knowing the intent to test it. It should be bought as if it were being ordered by any old Mr.Public. The very knife you or I might get. Someone bought that knife (ATAK) as an example of the mans work and that is what it is.
Alex

[This message has been edited by Boriqua (edited 04 November 1999).]
 
Hey mike, i don't know you but you seem to be a good guy.I can only surmise how the mad dog rejects got into circulation.In a "FACE OFF" type scenario,Jerry Busse has the evil doctor Rob Simonich to switch his face with mad dog's.Jerry,then disgised as the dog,sneakily sabotages 'his' own atak blades.The tactical truth holds true,mad dog is making a kick a** blade in the form of infi steel.
 
The Fallkniven only came in third? Surely this is some conspiracy between the Japanese makers, the Swedish designers, and the North American distributors and retailers to decieve the ELU's with some counterfeit A-1s made by the janitors when no one was looking.

We all know that a properly heat treated VG-10 blade ground as the A-1 is, cuts better than a light saber and kicks butt on Busse, CS and the wares of he-who-has-rabies!

I demand a retest!

I guess Jobs has it wrong in my sig below. Real artists not only ship, they defend the authenticity of their work, and as craftsmen, should stand behind their products 110%.

Time to change my signature.

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Real artists ship--Steve Jobs


[This message has been edited by Oregon Duck (edited 04 November 1999).]
 
I am a fan and soon to be owner of a Mad Dog ATAK. I will test "my" ATAK this weekend, as soon as it arrives on Friday. I will also try to have it x-rayed this weekend...my uncle is a vet...
I don't know what to believe about this. If you have read my reaction in the other forum, I have stated that Mad Dog's knives speak for themselves. The only people I have ever heard of being disappointed with a Mad Dog blade post on THIS forum. I am not pointing fingers, but it seems strange to me that everyone who has ever had a problem with a Mad Dog (besides trying to get one) has posted on this forum. I am enlisted in the Marine Corp. My recruiter was an active sniper in the early '90s and was later an instructor at Quantico, VA at the Marine Sniper School. He was, from what I have been told, one of the first to test the Mad Dog TUSKs and they also tested Mad Dog ATAK2 for use in the field. He has told me the only way he and his friend were able to even hurt them was by pounding them into concrete like a nail. (He told me the tip of a TUSK broke off when they did that...wonder why?) To make a long story short, Mad Dog's knives are each individual works. No two are alike, which is why they are called "custom" and cost so damn much...Each knife will be differernt. If Mr. Turber's knife did not perform well, so be it. That does not mean my ATAK will perform as poorly. If it does, then SOMEONE will pay...tee hee hee
Horse
 
I can actually pretty easily envision a scenario for reject blades winding up in ersatz "unintended" ATAKs through the subterfuge/embezzlement of a sinister employee (try to stick with me here, we'll be playing a quick round of "You Are There"):

Okay, so you're MD, and you make some really kicka** knives, and they're in high demand, so you're living large parts of your life in front of a grinder and a furnace, because your meticulous hand grinding and heat treating is what makes the knives so special. But grinding and heat treating aren't the only things a knife business needs, so you hire some Elves to answer the phone, handle the paperwork, do shipping and receiving, maybe help put on handles (I don't know, you tell me, after all, you're the Dog). But, unbeknownst to you, one of the Elves is Evil (oooh, foreshadowing, spooky music, closeup of the Evil Elf at a 45degree camera angle, and all that) ...

So, you're MD, you're grinding and heat-treating away, and you find a blade that doesn't meet your high standards. You bite a notch out of the tang (which is weird, but it's part of your quirky nature) to indicate its inferior status, and throw it on the reject pile, which nobody pays much attention to, since, after all, well, they're rejects...

So your Elves come to you and say, "Mr. MD, sir, we're sending out two dozen finished knives to dealers, and we're ordering some more Milk Bones, and we're sending 50-mumble blades out to be hard-chromed, and we're ordering parts for another 50-mumble handles," and you nod and thank your Elves, and chomp down on another Milk Bone, and get back to your constant grinding...

But, unbeknownst to you, the Evil Elf has found three or four blades in the reject pile that look pretty good (to an Evil Elf, anyway), and has added them into the 50-mumble that went out for hard-chroming, and made sure that three or four more handles emerged out of the 50-mumble sets of parts that were ordered. And you're busy grinding, always grinding, so you don't really pay attention to the "mumble" part of 50-mumble.

When the hard-chromed blades come back, the Evil Elf says, "Mr. MD, sir, here's those 50 blades we sent out for hard-chroming, all ready for you to finish." Of course, the Evil Elf has already pulled the notched blades out of the shipment, and hidden them away. Later that night, the Evil Elf uses your own gear to glue the extra handles (who knows, maybe they're even the handles are rejects) on the extra knives, while supposedly "closing up shop for you", while you're snoring in your doghouse, dreaming of eating kittens.

So, the Evil Elf ends up with a small, but possibly continuous, supply of ersatz ATAKs... maybe he sells them to a friend who nods and winks and sells them at gun shows or swap meets as "barely used" MDs. Maybe someone buys one, then resells it to a legit dealer later on when they need money (with the dealer assuming the knife had been bought straight from the Dog), maybe that legit dealer sells it to a customer who later offers it up to Mr. Turber for testing, and only the Evil Elf and his swapmeet friend know the awful truth of the knife's real origins.

... so, does this scenario sound too far fetched? Embezzlement in the machine shop beyond belief? Well, none other than Jerry Busse described a vaguely similar situation to me a couple years ago, where an employee was sending legit orders through their system, and then grabbing the finished knives (before the customers got charged), hiding the paperwork, and selling the knives off at a swap meet. What occasioned him to tell me this? Because my Mean Street arrived many moons later than expected, after they found the stash of hidden paperwork (including mine), and had to complete the orders a second time. So, I can certainly see how it could happen...

For the record, I think that both MadDog and Busse build kicka** knives, the former optimized for fighting with a nod to utility, the latter optimized for utility with a nod to fighting -- and I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of a crazed grandma armed with either one...

...but I'd still like to see the results of X-raying a dozen randomly chosen ATAKs
smile.gif
...

My apologies for the length of this post,
(way past) time for sleep...

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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921

Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
 
<EM>Acckkkhhhh!!!!</EM>

If, in this context, MD wants your trust, and <EM>our</EM> trust, then <EM>he</EM> ought to send you a <STRONG>voucher</STRONG> for a knife, to be spent at the listed dealer of <EM>your</EM> choice. The voucher to replace the dealer's stock, and cover reasonable dealer expenses.

As things <EM>currently</EM> stand, after this <EM>*ahem*</EM> remarkable claim of counterfeiting, there is <EM>no way</EM> that <EM>I</EM>'d buy a MD.

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It's always Dark. Light only hides the Darkness.

 
I am not a big fan of Mad Dog but it seems the ATAK a fighter as I understand it was tested against the Busse among others. It seems to me the Busse is a camp knife. So here is my question. Is edge chipping as big an issue on a fighter as it is with a camp knife? Where is James Keating when you need him heh.
smile.gif
I would love to see his reply to that question. I will say MD's response seems kind of odd but maybe there is something we are missing who knows.

Regards,

Tom Carey
 
I am the one who has the Fighting Knives articles on MD. I will try to dig them up this weekend. I think that they are interesting. Also I agree that MD makes great fighters and that fighters should have different standards that camp knives. But the ATAK is billed as an allround knife unlike the shrike for instance and that means it should be open to the test. I can also x-ray knives if anyone wants to send them to me (heck I'll throw them in the CAT scanner (I wonder what would happen to these dogs in there?) I just don't have the money to buy a fake MD from a dealer just for the purpose of X-raying it.
 
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