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When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
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- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 44,141
I don't recall you having answered my question regarding whether his complete knives or their packaging which were imported from overseas contained the requisite country of origin information...or if they had, whether it had been removed prior to being sold.
(What about the same regarding completed parts of knives such as liners, handles, blades and such...not nuts and washers, but assembled and machined items?)
If you did answer, my apologies for having missed it in the stack of other replies in this thread.
Annnnddd yep, we're still on the "This is all the dealers' fault, not the guy who entered into a contract with them, and denying all culpability in making sure his products were properly represented." track. Got it.
Bet if those big dealers had posted his knives up for $5, he'd have had time for an immediate phone call over to them. LOL
It sounds like a story you made up to support your preconceived conclusion. Like, I could have easily said, "Hoback gets lots of folks at his booth, and since he's never claimed all his knives were made in the US, I assume he told folks that if they asked him directly."
Listen, for the last time. If you let someone say something incorrect about you or your product for years, then that's on you, 100%. Simple as that. Please stop attempting to weasel out of this fact. Hoback could have called those dealers at any time, but he didn't, because he was loving getting $650+ for Chinese made knives that he was allowing to be misrepresented as US made knives.
You can say that's an assumption, but since that's actually what's been happening, show us another dance, Neo!
Speaking of the dealers, BladeHQ, KnifeCenter, and DLT (you know, the little guys that don't really get much traffic) have all removed the US from the country of manufacture for Hoback Knives. That's awesome. The truth usually is. 
They're now listed as "Import", "Origin unknown" (LMAO), and "Unpublished" (that definitely inspires confidence!) and well, they aren't on USAMadeBlade anymore at all. All good things.
They're now listed as "Import", "Origin unknown" (LMAO), and "Unpublished" (that definitely inspires confidence!) and well, they aren't on USAMadeBlade anymore at all. All good things.
I would second the love/hate thing with the Kwaiback. There is so much to love about it. That said, the blade is just too close to the back opening when closed to the point of being dangerous. It bit the side of my hand when grabbing something else out of my pocket on multiple occasions. Ended up selling. I can't get too hung up if a US maker is using some off the shelf Chinese screws and things, but it does make you think twice about the Made in USA stamp! Definitely prefer full transparency though so at least I know what I'm getting.I have a love hate relationship with the Kwaiback, had two of them sold them both after awhile. First time I saw one I had to have it, bought it, loved everything about it except the sharpened pry bar blade. Sold it, few years later saw the Frag version, bought another one, but same issue (no one to blame but myself here!) and it sat around and I sold it. I get that tacticool sharpened pry bars sell, but I think he'd sell a lot more if he made a thinner/lighter version with a blade thickness/profile that was actually good for something other than prying open car doors. That said it's his business, his work, and he can make whatever he wantsOf the few I've handled the fit/finish/quality was top notch, no complaints and I'm very picky, I've been disappoint in products from many makers at similar price points, and I've been around here a lot longer than most to see many knife companies/makers come and go.
While it is true that even "made in the USA" isn't 100% made in the USA I'd still rather support those products than others that can't even meet that threshold when possible. To me his stance on where it's made translates to: "It's made lots of places, and we're not going to tell you where exactly because you wouldn't like it". Direct from their website: "We also intend to take greater advantage of the global economy to source and/or manufacture many of our parts and products – in countries like Japan, Hong Kong , Finland, China, Italy, Mexico, Russia, Europe, and Canada."
I end up torn on it, I understand we end up having to buy a lot of things from China, and Russia is an easy source of Titanium, it keeps prices low (and more important to companies keeps profits high) and the poor people making those products are probably good people that don't wish anyone harm, but at the end of the day there's no denying that Russia and China are our enemies, and their governments would like nothing more than to see us burn. If I have to buy a TV, microwave, cell phone, etc. I accept I can't buy made in the USA, but for a luxury item where I have a choice where it's made, like a high $ knife, I can at least try not to financially support the governments of our enemies, or support them as little as possible.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2011
- Messages
- 456
The guy posts selfie videos in front of an American flag and quotes bible verses everywhere. And he has never ever addressed where his knives are actually made before. It's not a huge leap to think that folks (and dealers) would take that to mean Made in USA. This is not on the dealers. An honest businessman would've disclosed where they are getting parts from, how much of the knife is made overseas, and what all is actually completed in USA. He has never done that.
On a separate issue, or "trend" i'm noticing with "USA designed" made overseas knives, is that no one wants to mention who or where their knives are being made. It's almost as if they know that knife folks will turn their back on them when they hear the C word. And situations like this make it worse for everyone. What's the harm in naming the company making your knives? "It puts the relationship in jeopardy", I find that to be a very lackluster explanation. Sorry, but I'm not buying your knives when you are pulling the wool over folks' eyes......
On a separate issue, or "trend" i'm noticing with "USA designed" made overseas knives, is that no one wants to mention who or where their knives are being made. It's almost as if they know that knife folks will turn their back on them when they hear the C word. And situations like this make it worse for everyone. What's the harm in naming the company making your knives? "It puts the relationship in jeopardy", I find that to be a very lackluster explanation. Sorry, but I'm not buying your knives when you are pulling the wool over folks' eyes......
If he’s been telling them your version, why wasn‘t that common knowledge to dealers, reviewers, knife owners?
Its funny looking through his IG posts. Many posts are knives in various stages, many with mentions and pictures of his shop and Idaho. Many posts about his shop maintenance and his equipment, etc.
None on receiving shipments of parts, partially completed knives, or complete knives that have came from the overseas factories he works with. None showing how comparable the knives he makes and the knives from the factories are. Do you see the disparity and how that hides the truth that is coming out now?
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 44,141
Interesting...
You seem to only be "aware" of events of an alleged exculpatory nature.
I guess I'm not particularly surprised, and I certainly don't intend to try to shoehorn you into making any admissions of wrongdoing given your defensive strategy.
Thus, I have no further questions...as it is clear that the answers will all be deflective in nature.
No, I don't have a problem with that.
Umm, I believe QuietCarry knives are made by a Taiwanese OEM, who they refuse to identify.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
- Messages
- 1,271
Hoback certainly didn't call us - in fact he never personally called us once in the almost 5 years we carried them. We always spoke to a rep or his billing guy, if we had a Jake question they would message Jake separately, he would answer them, then they would forward or relay his response.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2014
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- 1,271
To be clear - we have no interest in a witch hunt - I am sitting on over a hundred thousand worth of Hoback inventory right now. This dumpster fire makes those boat anchors - we are either going to essentially never get rid of it all or take a significant loss trying to get of it. This is a worst case scenario for us too - however we feel very strongly that all products should be accurately labeled where the country of origin is - and we feel (at best) mislead if not outright lied to about where the true country or countries of origin is for Hoback products. This lead to us misleading our customers as to the true country of origin on Hoback products, that is not ok. As soon as we knew that Hoback was likely made overseas we changed all of our listings - we want to be as upfront as possible, whenever possible.
Here is how it breaks down for me: If you can't name specific manufacturers, sure whatever, just tell us the country. We have brands who tell us their specific OEM and others who can't/won't, but you know what? They all tell us the country of origin.
It should speak volumes that this was a surprise to essentially the entire knife community - dealers, reviewers, consumers, despite Hoback shrugging and saying that he has always done this and seeming surprised that people thought they were made in the USA.
Here is how it breaks down for me: If you can't name specific manufacturers, sure whatever, just tell us the country. We have brands who tell us their specific OEM and others who can't/won't, but you know what? They all tell us the country of origin.
It should speak volumes that this was a surprise to essentially the entire knife community - dealers, reviewers, consumers, despite Hoback shrugging and saying that he has always done this and seeming surprised that people thought they were made in the USA.
Fair enough. But I would question whether he even knew how you were listing the COA on your website, before this whole thing blew up. He strikes me as guy who just wants to make knives and doesn't want to be too involved in sales and marketing, but that could be off base.
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