When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

[Dadpool]

I assumed that, but haven’t had time to watch the video…was to busy reading all the FTC stuff. Haha.

It's short and well worth watching. I can't think of a single other knife company that has the same model made in potentially three different places and doesn't disclose that fact. It boggles the mind...yet there it is, straight from Hoback himself.

 

[King of the Cheese]

To be clear - we have no interest in a witch hunt - I am sitting on over a hundred thousand worth of Hoback inventory right now. This dumpster fire makes those boat anchors - we are either going to essentially never get rid of it all or take a significant loss trying to get of it. This is a worst case scenario for us too - however we feel very strongly that all products should be accurately labeled where the country of origin is - and we feel (at best) mislead if not outright lied to about where the true country or countries of origin is for Hoback products. This lead to us misleading our customers as to the true country of origin on Hoback products, that is not ok. As soon as we knew that Hoback was likely made overseas we changed all of our listings - we want to be as upfront as possible, whenever possible.

Here is how it breaks down for me: If you can't name specific manufacturers, sure whatever, just tell us the country. We have brands who tell us their specific OEM and others who can't/won't, but you know what? They all tell us the country of origin.

It should speak volumes that this was a surprise to essentially the entire knife community - dealers, reviewers, consumers, despite Hoback shrugging and saying that he has always done this and seeming surprised that people thought they were made in the USA.

How you run your business is your call.. but I see two options here:

1.) You simply change the COO and make a note on the listing “*Please note that the original country of manufacture was incorrect. It has since been corrected”, and you move on, because people will still buy the product.

2.) You make this event a PR event in which you signal to the world how outraged you are, and yank the product (not sure how profitable that would be, given the percentage of the global market that actually cares about all of this)

No right or wrong answer.. I can see why USA MADE blade would be upset, that’s their whole model.. but calling them “boat anchors” is a little dramatic, IMHO.

 

[3D Anvil]

Stop moving the goalposts; we’re talking about a small shop with one guy’s name on the door. Come on, now.

So a small shop has a GREATER responsibility to police retailers than a conglomerate with thousands of employees?

 

[GAGL]

 

[Jordan@DLT]

How you run your business is your call.. but I see two options here:

1.) You simply change the COO and make a note on the listing “*Please note that the original country of manufacture was incorrect. It has since been corrected”, and you move on, because people will still buy the product.

2.) You make this event a PR event in which you signal to the world how outraged you are, and yank the product (not sure how profitable that would be, given the percentage of the global market that actually cares about all of this)

No right or wrong answer.. I can see why USA MADE blade would be upset, that’s their whole model.. but calling them “boat anchors” is a little dramatic, IMHO.

This a strange PR event since my comments nuke my own sales.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Assumed.

Yes, that is why my statement started with “if.” Because I didn’t know 100%. Please re-read my post with an open mind.

You are making claims as if they are true. So unless you are Jake Hoback…

 

[3D Anvil]

How you run your business is your call.. but I see two options here:

1.) You simply change the COO and make a note on the listing “*Please note that the original country of manufacture was incorrect. It has since been corrected”, and you move on, because people will still buy the product.

2.) You make this event a PR event in which you signal to the world how outraged you are, and yank the product (not sure how profitable that would be, given the percentage of the global market that actually cares about all of this)

No right or wrong answer.. I can see why USA MADE blade would be upset, that’s their whole model.. but calling them “boat anchors” is a little dramatic, IMHO.

Just change the COA to, "not disclosed by manufacturer." Problem solved.

 

[3D Anvil]

Yes, that is why my statement started with “if.” Because I didn’t know 100%. Please re-read my post with an open mind.

You are making claims as if they are true. So unless you are Jake Hoback…

I'm definitely not making claims as if they're true. But I did watch the video.

 

[Blues]

You're adorable.

Thanks. My mom used to think so, too.

By the way, it's funny how you take umbrage with the "assumptions" of others, while presenting your "assumptions" as facts, counselor. And yet the arguments of the attorneys are not evidence...at least not at the trials I've participated in as lead agent. Of course, this is not a trial...but I think you take my meaning.

Your assumptions carry no additional weight beyond those made by the rank and file posting here.

 

[King of the Cheese]

This a strange PR event since my comments nuke my own sales.

Your sales for Hoback are nuked by your own doing ultimately as your decision for the way ahead, but you can rest assured the principle in what you are doing will also be seen by many and appreciated by some.. if it’s important to them. That’s the decision point: Is yanking Hoback and proclaiming it worth the hit to the business the knives bring? That’s not an easy answer… as there is a “profitability” concern and a “moral” aspect.

 

[3D Anvil]

Thanks. My mom used to think so, too.

By the way, it's funny how you take umbrage with the "assumptions" of others, while presenting your "assumptions" as facts, counselor. And yet the arguments of the attorneys are not evidence...at least not at the trials I've participated in as lead agent. Of course, this is not a trial...but I think you take my meaning.

Your assumptions carry no additional weight beyond those made by the rank and file posting here.

What assumptions have I presented as facts? I think I've been pretty careful to differentiate between facts and assumptions.

 

[3D Anvil]

Your sales for Hoback are nuked by your own doing ultimately as your decision for the way ahead, but you can rest assured the principle in what you are doing will also be seen by many and appreciated by some.. if it’s important to them. That’s the decision point: Is yanking Hoback and proclaiming it worth the hit to the business the knives bring? That’s not an easy answer… as there is a “profitability” concern and a “moral” aspect.

If in fact Hoback represented the knives as being made in the US, then they have legal recourse. But if the argument is, "I just assumed they were because some guy on Youtube said so...."

 

[King of the Cheese]

Personally if I felt that strongly about this, I’d just simply discontinue the relationship. Sell the remaining knives and then don’t buy any more. I don’t know about you all but if I had 100 knives in stock, I wouldn’t throw them in the trash. But then again, I’m not feeling as dramatic about this as others.

 

[Blues]

What assumptions have I presented as facts? I think I've been pretty careful to differentiate between facts and assumptions.

Forgive me if I don't go back and read through the entirety of your responses. I'd rather floss with barbwire at this point. (Figuratively speaking,)

Ultimately, I feel for the end users who were misinformed about the knives they purchased and might not have, had they known the facts...and the vendors who will be stuck with goods that no longer have the same value for which they paid.

I hope they are made whole somehow...without having to deceive anyone in so doing.

 

[3D Anvil]

Forgive me if I don't go back and read through the entirety of your responses. I'd rather floss with barbwire at this point. (Figuratively speaking,)

Ultimately, I feel for the end users who were misinformed about the knives they purchased and might not have, had they known the facts...and the vendors who will be stuck with goods that no longer have the same value for which they paid.

I hope they are made whole somehow...without having to deceive anyone in so doing.

I agree, as to customers who were misled. I don't feel bad for the vendors, however, as they posted the false information of their own volition. They created this whole mess to begin with -- not Hoback.

 

[Jordan@DLT]

Your sales for Hoback are nuked by your own doing ultimately as your decision for the way ahead, but you can rest assured the principle in what you are doing will also be seen by many and appreciated by some.. if it’s important to them. That’s the decision point: Is yanking Hoback and proclaiming it worth the hit to the business the knives bring? That’s not an easy answer… as there is a “profitability” concern and a “moral” aspect.

I'm not gonna do a bunch of back and forth there - and its up to you if you feel I am being genuine - but we are genuinely upset about what happened, I was excited about the hoback brand, I put a lot of time and effort into it personally, this situation feels like having the rug pulled out from under us. I am not trying to market - I do not expect this to help us at all.

Personally if I felt that strongly about this, I’d just simply discontinue the relationship. Sell the remaining knives and then don’t buy any more. I don’t know about you all but if I had 100 knives in stock, I wouldn’t throw them in the trash. But then again, I’m not feeling as dramatic about this as others.

This is what we did/are doing - we cancelled all open purchase orders.

 

[King of the Cheese]

I'm not gonna do a bunch of back and forth there - and its up to you if you feel I am being genuine - but we are genuinely upset about what happened, I was excited about the hoback brand, I put a lot of time and effort into it personally, this situation feels like having the rug pulled out from under us. I am not trying to market - I do not expect this to help us at all.

Forgive me for the confusion, but I’m absolutely NOT questioning your motives here… I’m strictly looking at the financial aspect. Sometimes doing what you think is “right” causes a hit to the wallet. That’s a decision we all make at certain times.

This is what we did/are doing - we cancelled all open purchase orders.

And that will be the impetus for change at Hoback… because the most effective way to get someone’s attention is to hit them in the wallet.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

The way I understand the “Made in USA” can be implied per FTC. It is also not allowed as it is misleading the consumer.

So by showing his “factory” in the USA and no (until recently) claim that parts are made overseas, I would guess that Hoback is responsible per FTC regs.



If the majority of parts are made overseas, it is not allowed to imply that the product is made in the USA.

 

[Fire King]

Edit: looks like Sharp posted some information just above.

Have a great day everyone.

 

[King of the Cheese]

The way I understand the “Made in USA” can be implied per FTC. It is also not allowed as it is misleading the consumer.

So by showing his “factory” in the USA and no (until recently) claim that parts are made overseas, I would guess that Hoback is responsible per FTC regs.

View attachment 1757728View attachment 1757727

We have been over this. The business address used for tax purposes does not have to be the place of origin or manufacture.

Ford corporate is in Dearborne, MI. Does that mean every Ford vehicle has to be made in Dearborne? Of course not.