When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

[King of the Cheese]

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with what the phrase 'moving the goalposts' means. You made an absolute claim without modifiers, "There is no entitlement to disclose COO to consumers." Then, when I provided information that completely disproved that statement, you attempted to shift the conversation to talk about raw materials and items assembled in the U.S. vs foreign imports. That's a classic example of moving the goalposts.

No, my point was that you aren’t entitled to know the COO or supplier for any of the raw materials Hoback used. You think you are. I’m telling you that you are not. I gave you a practical exercise so that you could find that out the hard way. Have you called a fortune 500 company and asked them what country they get their steel from yet? I want to see you try.

 

[Quiet]

That's all on the dealers for believing what he told them. He can't be held responsible for everything he says; that's not fair at all.

I agree, this is all their fault. Well, and ours, for being really candid about our distaste for Hoback and his obfuscation, which he took full advantage of in order to get paid. We're the bad guys here. Poor Jake!

 

[King of the Cheese]

He just posted this
View attachment 1757803

Well that’s a step in the right direction. Good for him.

 

[86 power]

Yup. Bummed that the Sumo I have is Chinese made.

 

[Planterz]

Someone called them “boat anchors”, which is interesting considering they’re the same knives they’ve always been, it’s just that they could have been made in a place that isn’t the US.

Someone, not me. And an anchor is a heavy thing that drags a ship down, preventing movement. Like $100K tied up in inventory that isn't the revenue it could potentially have been. Maybe Jordan was making that metaphor, maybe he was just calling them big heavy knives. But good job avoiding my point that $100K tied up in slowly moving inventory is a problem for a business, which you obtusely contradicted because you don't like me.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Okay, so tell us how Hoback IMPLIED that his knives are all made in the US.

Having full knowledge that people believe all of his products are made in the US... and then not doing anything about it out of fear of backlash... is all "we" need to know.
It's not much of a debate when you have a fact like that.

 

[Danke42]

I agree, this is all their fault. Well, and ours, for being really candid about our distaste for Hoback and his obfuscation, which he took full advantage of in order to get paid. We're the bad guys here. Poor Jake!

Did I hear a hint of an idea there for a GoFundMe for Jake so he can go on a tropical vacation to recover from this abuse? Because if that's not happening yet it should be.

 

[Quiet]

He just posted this
View attachment 1757803

Hey guys, remember when somebody took issue like fifteen pages back when those of us who immediately knew it had to be China said so, and they were like "YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!"

What now? Of course it was going to be China. Come on, now. LOL

Man, I'd hate to be one of the guys whose knife says "USA/CHINA".

 

[King of the Cheese]

Someone, not me. And an anchor is a heavy thing that drags a ship down, preventing movement. Like $100K tied up in inventory that isn't the revenue it could potentially have been. Maybe Jordan was making that metaphor, maybe he was just calling them big heavy knives. But good job avoiding my point that $100K tied up in slowly moving inventory is a problem for a business, which you obtusely contradicted because you don't like me.

I’m well aware this is a profitability issue on sale price impact, or sales. I’m clearly taking issue with people that think the knives are garbage all of the sudden because they were made in a country they don’t like. That’s not even remotely accurate. I’ll just ignore the blatant irony in your last sentence.

 

[Blues]

Hoback, like many other designers, makes both full customs and "mid-tech" production knives. A full custom is, by definition, made by a particular knife maker. Examples: Pena, Laconico, Shirogorov, etc.

Trust me counselor, I probably know better than you what a custom knife is.

In years past, makers were at each others throats at the old Guild shows over the difference between custom and handmade.

But I digress...

 

[Quiet]

Yup. Bummed that the Sumo I have is Chinese made.

Yep.

 

[Danke42]

LOL indeed. Except of course for folks like DLT who are left holding the bag.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

No, my point was that you aren’t entitled to know the COO or supplier for any of the raw materials Hoback used. You think you are. I’m telling you that you are not. I gave you a practical exercise so that you could find that out the hard way. Have you called a fortune 500 company and asked them what country they get their steel from yet? I want to see you try.

The raw materials have never been the issue at hand. And we have hard confirmation that there are entire knives that were manufactured in China and not labeled as such. That most certainly puts Hoback on the wrong side of US Customs and makes him a liar.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Hey guys, remember when somebody took issue like fifteen pages back when those of us who immediately knew it had to be China said so, and they were like "YOU DON'T KNOW THAT!!!"

What now? LOL

Man, I'd hate to be one of the guys whose knife says "USA/CHINA".

Yes, you made an assumption about the COO and are now patting yourself on the back because the dice came up “winner”. Know the difference between making an assumption that later becomes known as fact (talking out of your 4th point of contact) and knowing for a fact that something is true? Apparently not.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Ok, watched the video. It’s an apology.

An admission to wrong doings. I can respect that.

What gets me is when he said “What do you guys want me to do?”
Read the FTC rules. Follow them, and then everyone else can suck an egg. Haha.

Put it on the box. Put it on the knife. Put the COO of final product on it somewhere in accordance with the FTC.

Problem solved….


…but too late, most likely.

 

[Quiet]

Trooper, it amuses me so much to see all these "You are ignoring..." banners. Your predictability is reassuring, much in the same way you know that a mountain that was there yesterday will still be there tomorrow. Stay the course, you beautiful butterfly.

You're the only member on this board who would argue against running out of a burning building if any of "the crew" that you hate argued for it.

 

[Sharp & Fiery]

Yes, you made an assumption about the COO and are now patting yourself on the back because the dice came up “winner”. Know the difference between making an assumption that later becomes known as fact (talking out of your 4th point of contact) and knowing for a fact that something is true? Apparently not.

That is how these things come to light…coming to a reasonable assumption, searching for the truth, and finding out if said assumption is correct or wrong.

 

[Quiet]

The raw materials have never been the issue at hand. And we have hard confirmation that there are entire knives that were manufactured in China and not labeled as such. That most certainly puts Hoback on the wrong side of US Customs and makes him a liar.

It's unbelievable to me that this spin is still being attempted, when we got the guy on film admitting that he has entire batches of knives made in China, gets them in, and sends them to dealers mixed in with batches of the same exact model of knife that he makes here.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Ok, watched the video. It’s an apology.

An admission to wrong doings. I can respect that.

What gets me is when he said “What do you guys want me to do?”
Read the FTC rules. Follow them, and then everyone else can suck an egg. Haha.

Put it on the box. Put it on the knife. Put the COO of final product on it somewhere in accordance with the FTC.

Problem solved….


…but too late, most likely.

I don’t think it’s “too late”. Hoback knives are well made.. they will likely recover.

 

[EngrSorenson]

Ok, watched the video. It’s an apology.

An admission to wrong doings. I can respect that.

What gets me is when he said “What do you guys want me to do?”
Read the FTC rules. Follow them, and then everyone else can suck an egg. Haha.

Put it on the box. Put it on the knife. Put the COO of final product on it somewhere in accordance with the FTC.

Problem solved….


…but too late, most likely.

yup, that's the whole thing- it's preventable.

Regardless of whether or not you have to, just share the mundane facts about your product!
You don't have to go sharing company secrets that give you a business edge, but come on...
It's so stupid, the guy messed up, he knew he messed up, and he didn't do anything about it until it was too late.