When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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King of the Cheese King of the Cheese

Do you actually have any experience in the courtroom since you keep telling folks about what the parameters are for lawsuits and such? I mean outside of watching Barnaby Jones and courtroom dramas like Judge Judy? Yes, I'm being facetious...but you're talking way outside your lane...or maybe not if you care to share your legal background. Tell us about your experience at trials.

And, the main thing I wanted to address...

While a Hoback knife that one thought was USA built, but was actually made overseas, is just as good (or bad) as one that actually was...I can tell you that I'd have been pretty miffed if any of a number of custom makers I've ordered knives from...Kit Carson, Tony Bose, Rob Simonich, Enrique Pena, Jerry Halfrich, Ken Erickson and a host of others...sent me a knife made in China when I thought I was buying a custom made by them in their shop.

So yeah, it makes a difference...whether it cuts the same or not.
 
Quiet said:
Trooper, it amuses me so much to see all these "You are ignoring..." banners. Your predictability is reassuring, much in the same way you know that a mountain that was there yesterday will still be there tomorrow. Stay the course, you beautiful butterfly.

You're the only member on this board who would argue against running out of a burning building if any of "the crew" that you hate argued for it.
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1.) The ignore banners are placed there because of an action you took, not me.

2.) Re: “Beautiful butterfly” Thanks, I guess? Never been called a beautiful butterfly before. That’s the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me here. 😁

3.) Yes, I’m well aware that you see the world in a way that would lead you to believe that people that disagree with you is akin to people “running into a burning building”. I admire the overflowing amount of confidence in such a perception.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Is that what I said?

You must think that all you have to do is file a lawsuit and the money rolls in one day.

No, sorry. This isn’t the movies. The burden is on the accuser. If you take Hoback to court, you have to explain what your grievance is, or what they did wrong. You don’t just stand around waiting for Judge Judy to get sassy.
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Yes, it is the logical conclusion of your very own statement, that people can't be sued without evidence or whatever specific phrasing you used to say the same thing.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
Is that what I said?

You must think that all you have to do is file a lawsuit and the money rolls in one day.

No, sorry. This isn’t the movies. The burden is on the accuser. If you take Hoback to court, you have to explain what your grievance is, or what they did wrong. You don’t just stand around waiting for Judge Judy to get sassy.
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Is there some reason you act like a slippery little shiteel all the time? Is there some reason for your behavior here?
 
Blues said:
King of the Cheese King of the Cheese

Do you actually have any experience in the courtroom since you keep telling folks about what the parameters are for lawsuits and such? I mean outside of watching Barnaby Jones and courtroom dramas like Judge Judy? Yes, I'm being facetious...but you're talking way outside your lane...or maybe not if you care to share your legal background. Tell us about your experience at trials.
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It isn’t outside my lane to assume that you have to make your case if you bring someone to court.. otherwise it’s a terrible waste of resources. One could ask the same question to the people that challenged me and get the same result on credentials, so all things the same, how would the answer help or hurt me? So I’ll disagree that court proceedings are “outside my lane”.
Blues said:
And, the main thing I wanted to address...

While a Hoback knife that one thought was USA built, but was actually made overseas, is just as good (or bad) as one that actually was...I can tell you that I'd have been pretty miffed if any of a number of custom makers I've ordered knives from...Kit Carson, Tony Bose, Rob Simonich, Enrique Pena, Jerry Halfrich, Ken Erickson and a host of others...sent me a knife made in China when I thought I was buying a custom made by them in their shop.

So yeah, it makes a difference...whether it cuts the same or not.
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I agree with the outrage, but my point is the knives still in inventory at distributors aren’t “junk” in the literal sense.
 
and, once again, lets just pause to recognize that Jake Hoback knew people incorrectly believed that his knives were Made in the USA and didn't do anything about it.
and why was that again? He was afraid of people feeling deceived.
and why's that important? People purchased the knife believing one thing, but it wasn't true.

So in summary:
He knew Country of Origin was important to consumers
He knew there would be trouble if he corrected the misinformation
He elected to not do anything about it.

Feel free to ask any follow up questions if that's not crystal clear.
 
Speaking of Chinese knives, I'm going to be candid here. Right now, multiple dealers have the Sumo, in basic blackwash with silver hardware available...for $550. Five hundred....and fifty dollars. That's USD.

If I was one of the folks just finding out that this knife was actually Chinese made, I would be livid.
 
I've never bought a Hoback knife since he's been a manufacturer working through dealers. I have an early custom from him, and I got in on one of the early batches of mid-tech kwaibacks, at which time I assumed his outsourcing was still largely in the US.

Funnily enough, I saw his new Summit model the other day, and was wondering if the knives are still manufactured in the US, so I looked on his website. It basically said we get our materials and components where they're cheapest, so my assumption was that most of it was coming from China, although I was still under the impression that final assembly and QC was done by him.

It's nice to support small local businesses, but I'm not someone who has issues with buying internationally. However, I'd still want to know if a knife that's generally considered and marketed as US-made is not, because it certainly affects the price calculus. Hoback has priced his knives as if they're US-made. The Summit is over $600. If the design was something I really had to have (it's not, BTW), I might pay that for a US-made knife. For a chinese-made knife, I'd pay a bit of a premium for US design and QC, but I still wouldn't pay much more than $300 for that knife.
 
Paratrooper06 said:
It isn’t outside my lane to assume that you have to make your case if you bring someone to court.. otherwise it’s a terrible waste of resources. One could ask the same question to the people that challenged me and get the same result on credentials, so all things the same, how would the answer help or hurt me? So I’ll disagree that court proceedings are “outside my lane”.

I agree with the outrage, but my point is the knives still in inventory at distributors aren’t “junk” in the literal sense.
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Well, it is outside your lane when you post it, not as an assumption, but as a statement of fact...when you've never been in the arena. But okay, you are entitled to an opinion, whether right or wrong.

Second...they may not be junk...but what would a Kit Carson knife by a factory in China under license be worth next to one of his handmade customs?
Get the picture? There's a world of difference. Even if it was an American made authorized reproduction like Case does with Bose patterns. They're fine knives, but not in the same universe when it comes to value or pride of ownership.

If you feel otherwise, I have plenty of factory made production pieces to trade you for the real McCoy.
 
Blues said:
Well, it is outside your lane when you post it, not as an assumption, but as a statement of fact...when you've never been in the arena. But okay, you are entitled to an opinion, whether right or wrong.
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Well where am I wrong on the “making a case” part? We can maybe discuss what I said that was wrong.
Blues said:
Second...they may not be junk...but what would a Kit Carson knife by a factory in China under license be worth next to one of his handmade customs?
Get the picture. There's a world of difference. Even if it was an American made authorized reproduction like Case does with Bose patterns. They're fine knives, but not in the same universe when it comes to value or pride of ownership.

If you feel otherwise, I have plenty of factory made production pieces to trade you for the real McCoy.
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Well, China isn’t a single expectation on level of quality. A Hoback made by Reate isn’t a Hoback made by …wherever CRKT makes them. Maybe we could agree that if Hoback has knives made by Reate, it’s not quite as bad… dare I say that they might be BETTER? (Ducks and runs behind cover) 😄
 
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