When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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Call me pessimistic, but im willing to bet the only "made in the usa" knives are his customs. I'm even willing to bet if it's a custom version of one of his production folders that everything other than the blade and some bedazzled parts are made in China. He's not having China mill scales, milling scales in house, and using a U.S. manufacturer to do the same work and charging the same price. Why would you?
 
EngrSorenson said:
At this point you're using hearsay to support your stance.
No one here knows what transpired between Hoback and the dealers.

What I do know is that it's easy enough to get out on social media and alert people that you've been trying to rectify misinformation with dealers, and tell the consumers what the truth is.
Anything less than that and it's absolutely, unequivocally Jake Hoback's fault he's in this mess.
There is nothing that you can point to that I won't be able to show you how Jake could have prevented it through the simple act of sharing information.
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No, I'm not using hearsay. The guys from USA Made Blades and DLT have posted here. The former said he based his false COA on things he heard on Podcasts and on Youtube reviews. The latter said he had no discussions with Hoback about COA.
 
3D Anvil said:
Sorry, but repeating the same inanity ad nauseum doesn't make it true. Hoback never made ANY representation about the COA of his knives. The dealers did that. He apparently tried to straighten at least one of them out and they didn't make the change. He admits he should have tried harder. The End.
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So allowing the misinformation to sell knives isn't being dishonest? Why didn't come clean on social media when the supposed dealers ignored him? It's been 5 years with the wrong label dlt trading.
 
Often times there are two sides to the story, there are ambiguities, there are reasonable disagreements to be had, and the rule of lenity should apply to the accused. Here, however, that is decidedly not the case.

My official diagnosis, as a proud holder of a doctorate in knife psychology, is that anyone defending Hoback must have a screw loose.
 
Quiet said:
Ok, great, so this "false COA", what did it look like? Do you have a pic? Also, you're wrong here, please stop acting like you're speaking from place of knowledge. These wild assumptions you're making all over the place are stupid, thanks.

Also, I already destroyed this point you keep trying to make. Reading appears to be difficult for you so I'll try to use small words. "Hoback said his knives are from China, that same night, Dealers pulled the Made in US listings" Those words small enough?

Almost as if, if Hoback had told them years ago, they'd have done it then. So, why couldn't/didn't they do it then, but did do it now? The logical answer is because he never specified.

I swear, I feel like I'm destroying a four year old in a college level debate class here.
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Exactly.

USA Made Blades posted on IG last night talking about it. Not to mention when this first hit a few days ago I checked ...6 different dealers? All said COA USA. From what others have said...the dealers (most if not all) had them listed as USA. Jake screwed the pooch. He tried to passively pass the blame to the dealers. Passive-aggressive at the very least in his responses since.

Quiet, you also nail another point. Why did dealers change the COA right when Hoback came out stating some of his stuff was made overseas.

Anyone trying to defend Jake Hoback needs to remove the emotion out of it. It isn't the fact they are made in China, it is he let people think they were. Dealers are not to blame. Dealers get their info from the company providing the product. It is that company's responsibility to give the correct info.
 
3D Anvil said:
Sorry, but repeating the same inanity ad nauseum doesn't make it true. Hoback never made ANY representation about the COA of his knives. The dealers did that. He apparently tried to straighten at least one of them out and they didn't make the change. He admits he should have tried harder. The End.
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The_Iron_Joe said:
The issue is that he lied, either directly or by omission. Anything else that people take issue with, such as the exact timing with which this all happened, is just window dressing.
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Lying by omission is not a difficult concept.

If everything is as Hoback said on his IG videos, that means he allowed the incorrect information to propagate. His reasons don't justify this, hence his asking for forgiveness.
 
3D Anvil said:
Well that was just a matter of time. Y'all have fun repeating the same false assertions.
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Trust me, if I do, it won't be because I don't want to know the truth. But you are disingenuous, at best. And that I have a problem with.

I have no vested interest in the matter one way or another, and have no dog in the fight.
 
The_Iron_Joe said:
Lying by omission is not a difficult concept.

If everything is as Hoback said on his IG videos, that means he allowed the incorrect information to propagate. His reasons don't justify this, hence his asking for forgiveness.
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Lying by omission is only a serious matter in certain cases.. like the disclosure agreement on a house. Not telling people where his knives are made isn't the same as failing to report termite damage or flooding in the basement.
 
3D Anvil said:
I agree, and he should have kept after the retailers until they made the change, and he should have removed them as authorized dealers if they refused.

But it was the retailers who caused the problem to begin with and it's ridiculous that they refuse to accept any blame.
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I have no bacon in this fry-up.

I applaud your doggedness though - it's been awhile since I've seen such a steadfast Devil's Advocate.

That said, you don't seem to know a whole lot about marketing, do you? Or, at the very least, you are conveniently ignoring some of the baser elements. I don't own any Hoback knives, nor have they held much interest to me - however, I consume enough knife and gun material to know that they have always came across as good ol' American made "tacticool" blades. Why is that, do you think? The answer to that is marketing.

You are pushing the premise that the onus of marketing an item correctly is on the vendors and not the individual or entity whose name is on the product. However, you are ignoring the simple fact that Mr. Hoback, who bears the ultimate responsibility, has marketed himself an an American good ol' boy and that the knives that bear his name share in this image. As a result, his knives get marketed, indirectly or otherwise, as an American-made cutting tool and the simple fact remains - he did little to nothing about it until recently.

Make no mistake, this responsibility falls squarely on his shoulders - no one else's. He allowed the misperception to continue - because of marketing, because of an image, because of his brand. Blame the dealers all you want but you are backing the wrong chicken in this kerfuffle.

This isn't to say that Mr. Hoback is irredeemable - how he continues to conduct himself in the coming days and weeks will be telling, however.
 
shinyedges said:
So you're claiming hoback never looked on dlt tradings website in 5 years. That's plausible to you? You are a liar.
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I'm claiming that neither you nor I has any idea if or when he looked at his listings on various retailer sites.

Some of his dealers clearly list only the information Hoback provided, which did not include a COA. See Knifejoy's listings for example.
 
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