When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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shinyedges said:
He never named anyone. That's exactly what I said. So the only evidence is from the dealers here who said they were never contacted. Why didn't he name the dealer?
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I can't really find fault with him not naming the dealer in the video...regardless of wanting to hear his explanation.

If there's a dealer to name, I'm sure it will come out at some point, voluntarily or under oath.
 
Blues said:
I can't really find fault with him not naming the dealer in the video...regardless of wanting to hear his explanation.

If there's a dealer to name, I'm sure it will come out at some point, voluntarily or under oath.
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That may come to pass. But the fact remains Jake hobacks word in that video claiming he contacted a dealer is the only thing we have to go on. Taking in to account all the other dubious things he is being questioned on right now, pardon me for being skeptical of his word.
 
shinyedges said:
He never named anyone. That's exactly what I said. So the only evidence is from the dealers here who said they were never contacted. Why didn't he name the dealer?
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Well, Occam's razor would tell you it's because not naming the dealer means it's harder to prove he lied.

But what if he didn't name the dealer because Hoback is a really great guy that doesn't want the dealer's business to be hurt by the dealer's mistake? If you think about it, by deceiving us for years, he was just trying to make sure that John q. Dealer could put food on the table.
 
Blackfish775 said:
Well, Occam's razor would tell you it's because not naming the dealer means it's harder to prove he lied.

But what if he didn't name the dealer because Hoback is a really great guy that doesn't want the dealer's business to be hurt by the dealer's mistake? If you think about it, by deceiving us for years, he was just trying to make sure that John q. Dealer could put food on the table.
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Right. The totality of the circumstances doesn't look good. I don't believe him. His own actions made me believe he is a liar.
 
Does anyone know why Hoback posted his apology to begin with? It couldn't have come out thin air, could it?
 
Blackfish775 said:
Well, Occam's razor would tell you it's because not naming the dealer means it's harder to prove he lied.

But what if he didn't name the dealer because Hoback is a really great guy that doesn't want the dealer's business to be hurt by the dealer's mistake? If you think about it, by deceiving us for years, he was just trying to make sure that John q. Dealer could put food on the table.
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Would that be Chinese food?

:eek:🤣

(Now there's a fortune cookie I'd want to open up.)
 
Here is where things seem to stand - to my eye, anyway.

1.) Mr. Hoback misrepresented his products - we can quibble over whether he did so intentionally, willfully, etc. In the end, it doesn't matter - the fact remains, he allowed his brand to be perceived the way it always has been until recently.
2.) The dealers, through Mr. Hoback's marketing, had a reasonable "good faith" belief that Mr. Hoback's products were US-made.
3.) Mr. Hoback did little to nothing to correct this misperception and subsequent misrepresentation - despite admittedly knowing that his products were being marketed in the manner that they were.

Mr. Hoback is responsible for the marketing of his products - even if he hired someone else to do it (i.e. third party company, his wife, or even his dealer network). If a product bears one's name and furthers a specific brand and/or image, the entity that owns that name bears the liability from any fallout due to misrepresentation. Had Mr. Hoback vigorously reached out to his dealers in order to correct the issue and said dealers persisted - well, then we have grounds for absolution and the pitchforks can be levied in the other direction.

The problem is, we know he did no such thing (through his own words) and he allowed his dealers to be blissfully unaware, knowing that it wouldn't benefit him for them to know otherwise.

Marketing is never a black and white thing - you are having to balance representing your product/service somewhat accurately without spilling ALL of the goods. Mr. Hoback bears the blame here - we can try and assuage it elsewhere all we want but unless it can be proven that the dealers were intentionally misrepresenting his product, there is a much stronger case against Mr. Hoback and his enterprise.


All of this supposition matters not though - unless it ends up in the courts. Jake Hoback Knives will undeniably take a hit and the dealers will hopefully have learned that one cannot assume anything - even the most wholesome seeming can be hiding corpses.
 
Pàdruig said:
Here is where things seem to stand - to my eye, anyway.

1.) Mr. Hoback misrepresented his products - we can quibble over whether he did so intentionally, willfully, etc. In the end, it doesn't matter - the fact remains, he allowed his brand to be perceived the way it always has been until recently.
2.) The dealers, through Mr. Hoback's marketing, had a reasonable "good faith" belief that Mr. Hoback's products were US-made.
3.) Mr. Hoback did little to nothing to correct this misperception and subsequent misrepresentation - despite admittedly knowing that his products were being marketed in the manner that they were.

Mr. Hoback is responsible for the marketing of his products - even if he hired someone else to do it (i.e. third party company, his wife, or even his dealer network). If a product bears one's name and furthers a specific brand and/or image, the entity that owns that name bears the liability from any fallout due to misrepresentation. Had Mr. Hoback vigorously reached out to his dealers in order to correct the issue and said dealers persisted - well, then we have grounds for absolution and the pitchforks can be levied in the other direction.

The problem is, we know he did no such thing (through his own words) and he allowed his dealers to be blissfully unaware, knowing that it wouldn't benefit him for them to know otherwise.

Marketing is never a black and white thing - you are having to balance representing your product/service somewhat accurately without spilling ALL of the goods. Mr. Hoback bears the blame here - we can try and assuage it elsewhere all we want but unless it can be proven that the dealers were intentionally misrepresenting his product, there is a much stronger case against Mr. Hoback and his enterprise.


All of this supposition matters not though - unless it ends up in the courts. Jake Hoback Knives will undeniably take a hit and the dealers will hopefully have learned that one cannot assume anything - even the most wholesome seeming can be hiding corpses.
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All these points were brought up 20 or 40 pages ago. 3danvil refuted every one of them. Blames the dealers.
 
shinyedges said:
All these points were brought up 20 or 40 pages ago. 3danvil refuted every one of them. Blames the dealers.
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It's easy to get lost in some of the muck, for sure. I was trying to consolidate things a bit.

Strange hill to plant your standard on though, eh? I mean, even if a case could be made for the dealers to assume fault, it's a very small one and is dwarfed by Mr. Hoback's own culpability.
 
Pàdruig said:
It's easy to get lost in some of the muck, for sure. I was trying to consolidate things a bit.

Strange hill to plant your standard on though, eh? I mean, even if a case could be made for the dealers to assume fault, it's a very small one and is dwarfed by Mr. Hoback's own culpability.
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Agreed. It's been a mind boggling, repetitive 60+ pages lol
 
I don't know what the deal/contract between the knife maker and dealers is but just wonder in this case, can dealers like USAMadeBlade and DLT simply return their stock of Hoback knives with a full refund? Feel bad for them if they can't because these dealers are innocent IMO and their stocks of Hoback knives will be difficult to move.
 
3D Anvil said:
Does anyone know why Hoback posted his apology to begin with? It couldn't have come out thin air, could it?
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That's what I've been wondering. By his wording (which I don't recall at this point and don't feel like looking up again, but this was my impression when reading it) it struck me as him believing the jig was up (or was about to be).
 
sharp_edge said:
I don't know what the deal/contract between the knife maker and dealers is but just wonder in this case, can dealers like USAMadeBlade and DLT simply return their stock of Hoback knives with a full refund? Feel bad for them if they can't because these dealers are innocent IMO and their stocks of Hoback knives will be difficult to move.
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Perhaps if they can present a good enough argument for misrepresentation, otherwise I think not, as Jason at DLT had posted that they're sitting on roughly $100k of inventory that they're going to take a big hit on.

Just for fun, here's the general definition of misrepresentation(which obviously varies on the specifics by jurisdiction): A misrepresentation is a false or misleading statement or a material omission which renders other statements misleading, with intent to deceive.
 
RBB2 said:
That's what I've been wondering. By his wording (which I don't recall at this point and don't feel like looking up again, but this was my impression when reading it) it struck me as him believing the jig was up (or was about to be).
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I had that impression too, but it strikes me as a pretty important question. If he just blew himself up because he felt bad about the situation, that lends credibility to his mea culpa that wouldn't hold if someone else was about to blow him up and he was just trying to minimize the damage.
 
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