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When this thread started he hadn't made that video. It was released during the course of this thread.
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When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback
- Thread starter Yo Mama
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I would think that Mr. Hoback would be well advised to make all of the dealers/distributors
Whole ASAP. The question is can he? It ain't gonna be cheap. It's not like he can ship extra product to them on favorable terms. As to the damage done to his brand, As I mentioned before, I didn't think it's survivable.
Whole ASAP. The question is can he? It ain't gonna be cheap. It's not like he can ship extra product to them on favorable terms. As to the damage done to his brand, As I mentioned before, I didn't think it's survivable.
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He's left a bunch of dealers unhappy with him. He shouldn't have blamed them in his "apology". He still hasn't owned up to any of this. No atonement. Deleting everything and blaming other people is not a genuine apology.
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Doesn't strike me as terribly important now that he deleted it. If you're going to apologize, taking responsibility for your actions and accepting the consequences that come with them are part and parcel of that. Deleting it for fear or a lawsuit or other blowback makes it mean very little, regardless of initial intent.
Query: has any maker or manufacturer ever charged as much or more than Hoback has been charging for knives made by a Chinese OEM? Putting aside some special cases with exotic materials, I don’t even think anyone has even come close.
To me, that is one of the most despicable things about it.
To me, that is one of the most despicable things about it.
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How do you know he didn't lie to them? You don't. Just like you can't name who he supposedly tried to correct. He lied in that video you claimed you couldn't here, stands to reason he'd lie to others.
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In one breath you blame the dealer, the next you admit he hid his knives were made I'm china.
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Because he lied. And because he hid the truth because his fear of "blowback". Why do you believe his word?
His about us page is misleading.
Personally I don't have a problem if a maker doesn't choose to disclose the COO, so long as he isn't making a false claim about it. He didn't make a false claim about it. The dealers did.In one breath you blame the dealer, the next you admit he hid his knives were made I'm china.
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That's not a fact. That's your opinion. You don't know what he told them. We know what he DIDN'T tell them though.
Scenario one:
I don't sell or produce anything but I also wonder how one might not mention – even be proud to state – that their product is made in the US if that's important to them and/or the potential dealer. None of us know what was discussed in those initial dealer meetings. I find it hard to believe that it wasn't mentioned where the knives were made. It's a selling point for some. So maybe Hoback didn't state where his knives were made. At all. Seems unlikely but sure.
The dealers independently assumed where the knives were made and listed them as “Made in the USA” mistakenly or even purposely. Bad on the dealers but as a producer, you would have an interest in how your product is represented by a retailer, correct?
Indeed, it seems Hoback was aware of how his knives were being represented, concerned even because he stated so in a now deleted video. He was aware some or all of the dealers were misrepresenting his knives. He also claimed in the now deleted video that he tried to correct one or some of the dealer’s representation and was not successful.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the dealer(s) said screw it, we're making money off “Made in the USA" and we're not changing it. Bad on the dealers for taking advantage of the situation.
Bad for the dealers but it is abundantly clear that Hoback could have easily smashed these rogue dealers by putting out the information on social media. He didn’t so bad on him.
Scenario two:
How long does it take to setup a 28 member dealer network? Probably not a day, a week, a month. A couple years? Maybe around one? If you became aware that dealers 'A' through 'J' were representing your knives incorrectly, wouldn't you make sure that when establishing the agreements with dealers 'K' through 'BB' that you were clear with them where your knives were manufactured? I mean, if you cared about such things.
He didn’t but maybe the 28 dealer agreements came so hard and so fast, it just got away from him. Okay. However, it was made abundantly clear that Hoback could have easily smashed these rogue dealers by putting out the information on social media. He didn’t until it became an issue so bad on him.
Scenario three:
Maybe the first knives provided shortly after the contracts were agreed upon were made in the US and later in the contract, the knives provided were not. This would explain why the dealers represented the knives as made in the USA assuming that the origins were indeed discussed during contract negotiations. If you argue that origin or manufacture was never disclosed or discussed, this scenario seems less likely, though. If you cared about how your product was sold, wouldn't you immediately mention that the origin or manufacturing point changed? Maybe Hoback did mention the change and EVERY SINGLE DEALER said screw it, we're making money off 'Made in the USA" and we're not changing it.
That’s a pretty damning accusation but maybe that’s how it went down. Certainly, that’s bad on the dealers. Once again, he was at least aware of how SOME of the dealers were selling his knives. This should have prompted him to check all the dealers. He may not have and certainly didn’t use his proven effective social media presence to correct the misrepresentation so bad on him.
Scenario four:
Hoback knowingly and surreptitiously changed the origin and manufacturing point for all or some of the knives being provided to dealers and made no mention to said dealers. Clearly, bad on him.
Scenario five:
Hoback is as stupid and inept as he appears at this point and was so busy making knives – I mean having knives made in other countries – that he couldn’t possibly know what his dealers were saying about his knives. When he became aware of some or all of his dealers misrepresenting his knives, he did nothing concrete to correct the error either because he was overwhelmed or scared to. You are the conduit. The product is yours. You own it. If you’re so inept, stupid, busy, uncaring, or scared to do the right thing and make sure your products are being sold correctly, why in the world should I consider giving you $500 for anything with your name on it?
SUMMARY:
1) Maybe he didn't tell the dealers where the knives were being made and the dealers went on independent ops. Strange that wouldn't be mentioned and EVERY SINGLE DEALER would go on IO but okay.
2) However, he did know some of the dealers were wrong according to his now deleted video. He attempted to correct some or all of the dealers and was unsuccessful. If he only knew some of the dealers were wrong, why didn't he pursue the error to learn of its extent? In any of these cases, he could have used his effective social media presence to correct the error using brute force by calling out the rogue (ALL 28) dealers. He didn't.
WHY didn't he?
3) He didn't have a clue what the dealers were saying.
4) He didn't care what the dealers were saying.
5) He was too scared to correct the error.
ETA: I don't view this as anything but I seem to remember years ago when I was trying to understand the Hoback designs and the prices being asked, the 'About Us' page made it sound like the knives were made in his shop. That's why one of the scenarios above mentioned that maybe they were at one time but 28 dealers is a lot to provide. He had no choice but to outsource. He also had a choice to let people know about the outsourcing.
I don't sell or produce anything but I also wonder how one might not mention – even be proud to state – that their product is made in the US if that's important to them and/or the potential dealer. None of us know what was discussed in those initial dealer meetings. I find it hard to believe that it wasn't mentioned where the knives were made. It's a selling point for some. So maybe Hoback didn't state where his knives were made. At all. Seems unlikely but sure.
The dealers independently assumed where the knives were made and listed them as “Made in the USA” mistakenly or even purposely. Bad on the dealers but as a producer, you would have an interest in how your product is represented by a retailer, correct?
Indeed, it seems Hoback was aware of how his knives were being represented, concerned even because he stated so in a now deleted video. He was aware some or all of the dealers were misrepresenting his knives. He also claimed in the now deleted video that he tried to correct one or some of the dealer’s representation and was not successful.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the dealer(s) said screw it, we're making money off “Made in the USA" and we're not changing it. Bad on the dealers for taking advantage of the situation.
Bad for the dealers but it is abundantly clear that Hoback could have easily smashed these rogue dealers by putting out the information on social media. He didn’t so bad on him.
Scenario two:
How long does it take to setup a 28 member dealer network? Probably not a day, a week, a month. A couple years? Maybe around one? If you became aware that dealers 'A' through 'J' were representing your knives incorrectly, wouldn't you make sure that when establishing the agreements with dealers 'K' through 'BB' that you were clear with them where your knives were manufactured? I mean, if you cared about such things.
He didn’t but maybe the 28 dealer agreements came so hard and so fast, it just got away from him. Okay. However, it was made abundantly clear that Hoback could have easily smashed these rogue dealers by putting out the information on social media. He didn’t until it became an issue so bad on him.
Scenario three:
Maybe the first knives provided shortly after the contracts were agreed upon were made in the US and later in the contract, the knives provided were not. This would explain why the dealers represented the knives as made in the USA assuming that the origins were indeed discussed during contract negotiations. If you argue that origin or manufacture was never disclosed or discussed, this scenario seems less likely, though. If you cared about how your product was sold, wouldn't you immediately mention that the origin or manufacturing point changed? Maybe Hoback did mention the change and EVERY SINGLE DEALER said screw it, we're making money off 'Made in the USA" and we're not changing it.
That’s a pretty damning accusation but maybe that’s how it went down. Certainly, that’s bad on the dealers. Once again, he was at least aware of how SOME of the dealers were selling his knives. This should have prompted him to check all the dealers. He may not have and certainly didn’t use his proven effective social media presence to correct the misrepresentation so bad on him.
Scenario four:
Hoback knowingly and surreptitiously changed the origin and manufacturing point for all or some of the knives being provided to dealers and made no mention to said dealers. Clearly, bad on him.
Scenario five:
Hoback is as stupid and inept as he appears at this point and was so busy making knives – I mean having knives made in other countries – that he couldn’t possibly know what his dealers were saying about his knives. When he became aware of some or all of his dealers misrepresenting his knives, he did nothing concrete to correct the error either because he was overwhelmed or scared to. You are the conduit. The product is yours. You own it. If you’re so inept, stupid, busy, uncaring, or scared to do the right thing and make sure your products are being sold correctly, why in the world should I consider giving you $500 for anything with your name on it?
SUMMARY:
1) Maybe he didn't tell the dealers where the knives were being made and the dealers went on independent ops. Strange that wouldn't be mentioned and EVERY SINGLE DEALER would go on IO but okay.
2) However, he did know some of the dealers were wrong according to his now deleted video. He attempted to correct some or all of the dealers and was unsuccessful. If he only knew some of the dealers were wrong, why didn't he pursue the error to learn of its extent? In any of these cases, he could have used his effective social media presence to correct the error using brute force by calling out the rogue (ALL 28) dealers. He didn't.
WHY didn't he?
3) He didn't have a clue what the dealers were saying.
4) He didn't care what the dealers were saying.
5) He was too scared to correct the error.
ETA: I don't view this as anything but I seem to remember years ago when I was trying to understand the Hoback designs and the prices being asked, the 'About Us' page made it sound like the knives were made in his shop. That's why one of the scenarios above mentioned that maybe they were at one time but 28 dealers is a lot to provide. He had no choice but to outsource. He also had a choice to let people know about the outsourcing.
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