When it's not exactly Made in the USA - Hoback

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shinyedges said:
Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to not give hoback the benefit of the doubt?

What do you have to say about the made in China stickers missing for every knife? Did customs miss it for years?
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How many times do I have to say that I don't give him the benefit of the doubt? I've said repeatedly that he should have been more proactive in correcting the COO information. I'm just not prepared to say that he lied directly to the dealers when all evidence suggests that he didn't. His website NEVER claimed that his knives were 100% USA made. His own listing for his knives lists NO country of origin. And no dealer has claimed that he told them his knives were 100% USA made. But if you insist on believing something with no evidence to back it up, then that's what you're going to do (over and over and over again).
 
jbmonkey said:
Buck bantams, the handles aren't made in usa, but blade, heat treat and assembly are, if my memory serves me right.
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There are some Buck knives that are made in China, right? I have several Buck knives that are marked "China". Cat. 12622 "2 Blade Doctor Knife" is the one I can put my hand on at the moment. I love Buck knives, they plainly label what is USA Made and what is not to the best of my knowledge.
 
3D Anvil said:
How many times do I have to say that I don't give him the benefit of the doubt? I've said repeatedly that he should have been more proactive in correcting the COO information. I'm just not prepared to say that he lied directly to the dealers when all evidence suggests that he didn't. His website NEVER claimed that his knives were 100% USA made. His own listing for his knives lists NO country of origin. And no dealer has claimed that he told them his knives were 100% USA made. But if you insist on believing something with no evidence to back it up, then that's what you're going to do (over and over and over again).
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What evidence suggests he didn't? So all the wording that says HE makes the knives on his website and him telling people in person yes he makes everything don't imply HE makes them?

And the willful inaction of correcting dealers for years? While coincidentally none of his knives ever had a made in China sticker?
 
3D Anvil said:
What he actually says is, "so all this is made here," indicating something ("this") that we can't see on camera.
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So, do you feel it out of order to infer that what "all this" might be referring to is, oh I don't know, the knives on his table? At BLADE Show? You know, a knife show? Where he's representing his company's products? See how ridiculous you sound?
 
3D Anvil said:
How many times do I have to say that I don't give him the benefit of the doubt? I've said repeatedly that he should have been more proactive in correcting the COO information. I'm just not prepared to say that he lied directly to the dealers when all evidence suggests that he didn't. His website NEVER claimed that his knives were 100% USA made. His own listing for his knives lists NO country of origin. And no dealer has claimed that he told them his knives were 100% USA made. But if you insist on believing something with no evidence to back it up, then that's what you're going to do (over and over and over again).
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Because once it came to his knowledge that his products were being misrepresented at dealers and he did not do anything to correct it and chose to reap the benefits of said misrepresentation, he was then lying by omission.
 
3D Anvil said:
How many times do I have to say that I don't give him the benefit of the doubt? I've said repeatedly that he should have been more proactive in correcting the COO information. I'm just not prepared to say that he lied directly to the dealers when all evidence suggests that he didn't. His website NEVER claimed that his knives were 100% USA made. His own listing for his knives lists NO country of origin. And no dealer has claimed that he told them his knives were 100% USA made. But if you insist on believing something with no evidence to back it up, then that's what you're going to do (over and over and over again).
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The evidence like, say, him allowing* his knives to be represented as "US Made" for several years? All that time, couldn't pick up a phone? Send one email? Hell, place a typed letter in the shipment box to DLT/SMKW/etc. correcting their misunderstanding as to the COO of his products? All that time? See how ridiculous you sound?


* It's called culpability, incidentally.
 
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In one breath he says he's not giving the benefit of the doubt to hoback. In the same breath he says all evidence points to hoback never misled the dealers, while ignoring hobacks inaction to correct the dealers and the missing China labels. 😑

Some mental gymnastics right there.
 
3D Anvil said:
How many times do I have to say that I don't give him the benefit of the doubt? I've said repeatedly that he should have been more proactive in correcting the COO information. I'm just not prepared to say that he lied directly to the dealers when all evidence suggests that he didn't. His website NEVER claimed that his knives were 100% USA made. His own listing for his knives lists NO country of origin. And no dealer has claimed that he told them his knives were 100% USA made. But if you insist on believing something with no evidence to back it up, then that's what you're going to do (over and over and over again).
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“No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!”
 
benchwarmer380 said:
Because once it came to his knowledge that his products were being misrepresented at dealers and he did not do anything to correct it and chose to reap the benefits of said misrepresentation, he was then lying by omission.
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Yep, I agree. That's what he apologized for.
 
Quiet said:
The evidence like, say, him selling his knives as "US Made" for several years? All that time, couldn't pick up a phone? Send one email? Hell, place a typed letter in the shipment box to DLT/SMKW/etc. correcting their misunderstanding as to the CCO of his products? All that time? See how ridiculous you sound?
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All he had to do was send one email and BCC all his dealers to correct them. A less than 5 minute task to get the ball rolling. Seems he preferred to roll in the Made in USA dough.
 
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benchwarmer380 said:
All he had to do was send one email and BCC all his dealers to correct them. A less than 5 minute task to get the ball rolling. Seems he preferred to roll in the Made in UDA dough.
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The same dilemma many are tested with.

Why tell everyone grandma passed away when the social security checks can keep coming?

I think he’s probably pointing to his (likely weak) attempts as objective attempts.. but it’s like “noooo guys… please… change your COO to China….. okay well I tried, dinners on me at Sizzlers tonight!”

This might even be so messy and complicated that no one wants to go to court. But the relationships will be damaged and the “market will decide” Hoback’s fate.
 
3D Anvil said:
Yep, I agree. That's what he apologized for.
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That video is from blade 2021. So at that point he is completely aware that his knives are being misrepresented as made in the USA by his entire dealer network and has been too “afraid” to correct them. He, fully aware of this, is asked in person if he makes “everthing” here and he answers “yeah”.
 
DrFish said:
That video is from blade 2021. So at that point he is completely aware that his knives are being misrepresented as made in the USA by his entire dealer network and has been too “afraid” to correct them. He, fully aware of this, is asked in person if he makes “everthing” here and he answers “yeah”.
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That dealer cartel is ruthless. If Jake dared cross them he'd be sleeping with the fishes right now.
 
Chris_Texas said:
I understand that you are not defending him, but offering his justification. None the less....

People's expectations and biases might not always be rational, but they form the foundation of every purchase decision. With cars, for example, most people today understand that a typical car might well be made anywhere, and even if assembled in America it is tens of thousands of bits individually crafted across the globe, then shipped to America and pieced together. But that's only your typical car. Does that expectation and indifference extend to every vehicle?

Would the purchaser of a Ferrari accept the "location doesn't matter" excuse if he learned his supercar was assembled in Vietnam or perhaps India rather than a Ferrari plant in Italy? I suspect it might matter very much, just as it does here.

Going deeper, we cannot ignore the reasons WHY so many people will not deliberately do business with China, or purchase their products. Many people have strong moral convictions about this. And even if we ignore slavery and ra.pant human rights violations, we still have significant issues with quality. The people who contract bridges and skyscrapers out of pop metal and bubble wrap, who put melamine in baby formula to make it extra white, who ship toxic everything from dry wall to dog food, damn sure cant be trusted to care what steel goes into an pocket knife or how that steel is heat treated. Can China make good stuff? Perhaps. But they don't seem too concerned about it most of the time.

Anyway, I have rambled far enough, and everyone here already knows all this. And so does this Hoback guy. What he did to his customers is a disgrace.
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Well said.
 
Danke42 said:
That dealer cartel is ruthless. If Jake dared cross them he'd be sleeping with the fishes right now.
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I'm not trying to get on you danke but we really don't want the thread closed. I'm sure some folks would love for this to get closed, but many of us don't. Don't take this the wrong way, blues is already close to closing it.
 
DrFish said:
That video is from blade 2021. So at that point he is completely aware that his knives are being misrepresented as made in the USA by his entire dealer network and has been too “afraid” to correct them. He, fully aware of this, is asked in person if he makes “everthing” here and he answers “yeah”.
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Yeah, not really caring about that video because it's not clear and he doesn't appear to be talking to a dealer.
 
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