ZT 0300 Disappoints...

[RBid]

I can see an interest in "hard use" folder lock integrity, within reasonable parameters. First, the term "hard use" has to be level set. As has been repeated ad nauseum, knives are cutting tools. Using that to establish a boundary of sorts, we can rule out using the spine as a hammer or bludgeon. If we're looking at use as a cutting implement, examples of "hard use" might include camp tasks like stripping protrusions from a stick for use as a stake or spike, or deep notch or groove cutting in wood. I have used a ZT 0550 to break down a soft wood frame, which involved a bit of light chopping and notch cutting, as well as the kind of light prying done when separating cut portions from the material body. These are reasonable, and could be defined as "hard use" in relation to most EDC tasks.

In those applications, I consistently use a hammer grip, with pressure exerted on the lock bar. I've had a few occasions where there have been light spine contacts on backswings during light chopping, with no dramatic outcome.

I feel it may be relevant to note the flipper tab on the 0200, which should prevent cuts to the user in the event of lock failure in actual use.

Take this for what you will.

 

[Rival1314]

Also Warranty is good and all but more than one ZT 200 and now 300 has those issues. Small wonder the 200 is now discontinued. Perhaps it became too costly fixing each and every 200 (and perhaps 300's) so it can go back to performing as the company intended it to perform.

I have had dozens of 0300 and 0200's in and out of my shop for customization. I have never come across one (yet) with lock retention issues. Your generalizations are based on no actual first hand experience with multiple knives of the same model. I can appreciate your passion, but not sure what your deal is with this particular thread. You seem to be on a crusade to validate the fact that misuse of a knife is not relevant to the failures experienced. That being said, I also don't understand the mindset of someone who first posts on a forum before going through the actual steps to rectify a problem. We would love to hear about the issue and experience with CS, but that's not what is being done here.

The naysayers needs to get a grip and see real life ramifications when a knife has a weakness in design.

Just posting about how you saw a lock fail and yours does too provides no value to the forum or the community, and its definitely not indiciative of a flaw in design....especially for a model that has been in production as long as it has. There has been no evidence of any actual "realworld" use that falls within the intended use of the knife. What is the point of this thread?? WOW, a manufacturer has a knife that fails an abuse test....Lots of knives from many manufacturers will fail this test based on many variables. regarding the OP in specific...How old is the knife? What other abuse was it subjected to before the most recent spine whack failure? The OP indicated he cracks nuts & chops ice with the spine (who knows what other abuse it was subjected to)....that over time can also compromise lock integrity by putting undue force on the lock which over time could be the catalyst for the most recent spine whack failure. Just my two cents, but at least I can say I have had relevant experience over time with multiple blades of the same make & model....can you do the same?


knowledge without mileage = bull$hit

 

[Czechmate]

I currently have an 0300, 0301st, 0550, 0561, 0801 and have owned and 0551, 0550, 0561, 0560 and four 0350's in past. None have had any issues with lockup.


My 0300 has been used harder than some would use their fixed blades with no issues. :thumbup:

 

[asdf12345]

Emersons are damn near or more money than zero tolerance, use g10 and liner lock that is over come by spinewhacks, and has154cm but your not trolling against them are you ? At least zt will send free clips,screws,bolts,nuts, and has free warranty. Oh and emerson claim to be 1# hard use knife in the world...



Your more knife for the money argument doesn't just apply to zt does it?

Axis lock is very strong but has omega springs that WILL fail, its only a matter of time.....could be 4months or 10 years anyone's guess.

Every lock has pro's and cons, I prefer frame lock to back lock (tri-ad) for ease of disengagement. I own several cold steel ak47s and have had a few zts currently a zt0620cf in my pocket.

Your logic against zt applies to other manufacturers do you voice your same disdain for them as well?

Notice that I didn't mention Emerson for a reason. I have said repeated times that if cost-effectiveness is your concern, then Emerson production knives are not the way to go, due to all the issues you mentioned. I don't see how not mentioning them has anything to do with my argument. I mentioned comparable knives, marketed in comparable ways, at comparable prices. Emerson knives didn't happen to be included in that. If I have something to say about a knife or knives, then I say it.

You're right, every lock has pros and cons. Absolutely. But assume you're purchasing a folding knife, and your focus is strength + ease of carry. I assume that's why you would be looking for an "overbuilt" folding knife in the first place, and not to admire its "fit and finish", its "glass smoothness", flipping action, ease of disengagement, or other things that make it a fun toy to play with.

Yes, omega springs can fail, however note that when force is applied to the knife blade of an Axis locked knife, the springs themselves aren't the ones taking stress. Stress to those springs isn't going to be what causes failure of the lock. I assume you also don't trust other everyday items relying on even flimsier springs for their function.

I have a $15 Chinese neck knife that will pass any spine whack test.

We should all get opinels, the lock strength to dollar amount is off the charts lol

I thought the discussion had to do with one-handed opening folding knives that are designed & produced to be "overbuilt", and are purchased because of their supposed strength. If all knives were included in the discussion, there would be no point, we would all just shrug off folding knives as an entire category.

I can see an interest in "hard use" folder lock integrity, within reasonable parameters. First, the term "hard use" has to be level set. As has been repeated ad nauseum, knives are cutting tools. Using that to establish a boundary of sorts, we can rule out using the spine as a hammer or bludgeon. If we're looking at use as a cutting implement, examples of "hard use" might include camp tasks like stripping protrusions from a stick for use as a stake or spike, or deep notch or groove cutting in wood. I have used a ZT 0550 to break down a soft wood frame, which involved a bit of light chopping and notch cutting, as well as the kind of light prying done when separating cut portions from the material body. These are reasonable, and could be defined as "hard use" in relation to most EDC tasks.

In those applications, I consistently use a hammer grip, with pressure exerted on the lock bar. I've had a few occasions where there have been light spine contacts on backswings during light chopping, with no dramatic outcome.

I feel it may be relevant to note the flipper tab on the 0200, which should prevent cuts to the user in the event of lock failure in actual use.

Take this for what you will.

I don't think anyone's realistically thinking of using knives as such. If a folding knife can be used in that manner, it is certainly abuse, but also an indicator that the knife is literally 'over-built' - built in such a way that it will withstand actual abuse outside of what knives are required to do. Some cutting & light prying applications do put forces on the blade that's similar to pressure on the spine anyhow. Think of a knife blade stuck in wood, and tugging & twisting the knife to try to free it from the wood, for example.

Further, accidents & mishaps do happen where sharp pressure is applied to the spine. Of course that's not something to be expected, or something to necessarily consider when purchasing a knife. But if a consumer is purchasing a folding knife with its strength and user safety as a consideration, then it's not exactly irrelevant.

Again, if strength can be reliably had in an easier to carry package at a lower cost, why make more compromises than you need to.

 

[Geneo]

The lockbar stabilizer prevents the lock from OVER-EXTENDING as you close it.

It should also prevent it from bowing. Read the description at rh site.
Having said that I reckon it probably won't make a difference.

 

[craytab]

Oh what irony. Get on with the topic, Craytab. We're talking about the act of the knife staying in open position after being folded (as well as the inability to stay open), NOT the act of cutting which you're so fixed upon. Tsk, kids these days.

Perhaps you should get on topic. Take a look at all the other comments. And my goodness, god forbid we point out the FACT that a knife is meant to cut and NOT meant to whack stuff with the spine.

Tsk? Really? Throwing out insults? Calling me a kid? You've got it backwards pal. It is all these kids who are convinced their knife should withstand a stupid spine whack test that is the problem.

We go through this same thread every couple weeks. Look it up. Knives are meant to cut stuff. Marketing is just that. If you want to believe it fine. But you will be disappointed as you are now.

Also Warranty is good and all but more than one ZT 200 and now 300 has those issues. Small wonder the 200 is now discontinued. Perhaps it became too costly fixing each and every 200 (and perhaps 300's) so it can go back to performing as the company intended it to perform.

They discontinued the 200 because of your issue with it? They have to repair each and every 200? Okay bud. It is clear you really have no idea what you are talking about now.

 

[dozer2025]

I had a 350 that failed when subjected to light spine whacks.
I sent it to KAI asking them to look at it. They confirmed it was defective and replaced it.
My new 350 (and my 301 and 200) are strong and never fail me.
I see these videos a lot...I wonder if KAI had a guy machining the locks who didn't love his job for a while.

 

[shinyedges]

Omega spring failure IS failure of the lock...they are stressed just by being in the knife. They sit with tension on them 24/7 and have failed on new knives with zero hard use. Hell some folks have had springs break just sitting in a safe or on a shelf.

My first day i got my cold steel ak47 i took it with me to cut wood, a shaving from my chainsaw was on the stop pin and the knife would not lock up. period i was like wtf... i opened and closed it checking it out and removed the wood shaving and bam all is well.

Point is even the tri ad lock has vulnerabilities, I still use my cold steels and that kind of failure can happen on any knife no hard use needed.

Also as cold steel upgrades its steel and moves manufacturing to the US the price will go up... comparing over seas made knife prices to US made knife prices is apple to oranges.

The liner lock on an emerson is no more reliable than any other lock but you arent railing against them..why? high price, average or less than average lock strength, warranty that is inferior to other companies, average or less than average materials, marketing as "#1 hard use knife"...

Kinda sounds like some of the things you stated you didn't like about zt huh?

just trying to understand why your bashing zt when emerson knives suffer from many of the things you said against zt. So why hate on zt?

Notice that I didn't mention Emerson for a reason. I have said repeated times that if cost-effectiveness is your concern, then Emerson production knives are not the way to go, due to all the issues you mentioned. I don't see how not mentioning them has anything to do with my argument. I mentioned comparable knives, marketed in comparable ways, at comparable prices. Emerson knives didn't happen to be included in that. If I have something to say about a knife or knives, then I say it.

You're right, every lock has pros and cons. Absolutely. But assume you're purchasing a folding knife, and your focus is strength + ease of carry. I assume that's why you would be looking for an "overbuilt" folding knife in the first place, and not to admire its "fit and finish", its "glass smoothness", flipping action, ease of disengagement, or other things that make it a fun toy to play with.

Yes, omega springs can fail, however note that when force is applied to the knife blade of an Axis locked knife, the springs themselves aren't the ones taking stress. Stress to those springs isn't going to be what causes failure of the lock. I assume you also don't trust other everyday items relying on even flimsier springs for their function.





I thought the discussion had to do with one-handed opening folding knives that are designed & produced to be "overbuilt", and are purchased because of their supposed strength. If all knives were included in the discussion, there would be no point, we would all just shrug off folding knives as an entire category.



I don't think anyone's realistically thinking of using knives as such. If a folding knife can be used in that manner, it is certainly abuse, but also an indicator that the knife is literally 'over-built' - built in such a way that it will withstand actual abuse outside of what knives are required to do. Some cutting & light prying applications do put forces on the blade that's similar to pressure on the spine anyhow. Think of a knife blade stuck in wood, and tugging & twisting the knife to try to free it from the wood, for example.

Further, accidents & mishaps do happen where sharp pressure is applied to the spine. Of course that's not something to be expected, or something to necessarily consider when purchasing a knife. But if a consumer is purchasing a folding knife with its strength and user safety as a consideration, then it's not exactly irrelevant.

Again, if strength can be reliably had in an easier to carry package at a lower cost, why make more compromises than you need to.

 

[asdf12345]

Omega spring failure IS failure of the lock...they are stressed just by being in the knife. They sit with tension on them 24/7 and have failed on new knives with zero hard use. Hell some folks have had springs break just sitting in a safe or on a shelf.

My first day i got my cold steel ak47 i took it with me to cut wood, a shaving from my chainsaw was on the stop pin and the knife would not lock up. period i was like wtf... i opened and closed it checking it out and removed the wood shaving and bam all is well.

Point is even the tri ad lock has vulnerabilities, I still use my cold steels and that kind of failure can happen on any knife no hard use needed.

Also as cold steel upgrades its steel and moves manufacturing to the US the price will go up... comparing over seas made knife prices to US made knife prices is apple to oranges.

The liner lock on an emerson is no more reliable than any other lock but you arent railing against them..why? high price, average or less than average lock strength, warranty that is inferior to other companies...

just trying to understand why your bashing zt when emerson knives suffer from many of the things you said against zt. So why hate on zt?

Because this is another thread concerning lock failures in ZT knives.

I said my thoughts about Emerson in threads relating to Emerson knives. I believe that certain new Cold Steel knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than certain Emersons and I said as much in a recent thread concerning the two. I also believe that certain new Cold Steel knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than certain ZTs and I am saying as much now. I also happen to think that certain Benchmade knives have better value & live up to the 'overbuilt' category better than ZTs too, and I gave a comparison demonstrating that view.

It is not about specific brands vs others, but specific knives comparable to ZTs that happen to belong to those brands. Of course I don't think every Cold Steel or Benchmade is as strong or as well-built as the ZT models in question, just like I don't think every ZT knife applies to this discussion.

The comparison is not to say that a particular knife is terrible or another particular knife is the best. It's to draw attention to the fact that while all three of the knives in question are marketed, designed & produced as "overbuilt" knives, two of those three have arguably stronger locks that withstand more force (to the point of withstanding actual abuse that no one would consider proper use of a knife) and are more reliably good, while also being lighter weight and less expensive. The purchaser of an 'overbuilt' folding knife is already making compromises in weight, price & size in order to get something that is supposed to be strong. Why compromise more than you have to?

Debris between the lockface and the tang can cause a liner or framelock to fail to lock or to slip as well, and it will do the same thing in an Axis lock, a button lock, a front-opening automatic, etc. All of them are vulnerable to debris.

Unless the axis-lock knives have a greater number of failures than ZT framelocks, the strength, weight & price concerns still apply. As you said, other brands sell knives which fail right out of the box. Why not "bash" those brands equally, as you are telling me to do?

The CTS-XHP knives, from dealers, are still less than 1/2 the price of most comparable ZTs, from dealers.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Some may think that the spine whack is not a good test. Some folks do. I am of the school of thought, that think that it is acceptable if done lightly. If a $25 knife can pass the test, I think any $100+ knife should be able to pass the test too. I have a $20 CRKT Drifter that passes the test as well as a $25 Ontario RAT Model II that passes it. Spyderco Military passes.....so does the ZT 0550 that I own.

Send it back to ZT, they will make it right.

 

[skyhorse]

"They will fix it" shouldn't be the immediate defense of a company when issues with their product come up. Speaking of which, with ZT a knife might need to be sent back & forth more than a few times to get it fixed...

Lol,not defending ZT as the knife does have a warranty issue. Call me crazy but I'd just send it in for repair.

 

[BladeScout]

For some reason, the subject of 'spine whacking' surfaces occasionally.....

People can use THEIR knives for what they want.

Personally, I see no reason for 'spine whacking' folders.

Folding knives are meant for certain uses - fixed blade knives for other purposes.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

I'll start by saying that I have used and owned a couple of ZT 0301's and they were excellent. I like MOST everything about that knife, and still
like the knife a lot, even though I don't own it any more. I never felt the need to do a spine whack test because it has nothing to do with how
a knife actually works. When using the 0301 you have a grip on the knife, and you actually add strength to the lockup, rather than holding the
knife with a couple of fingers and forcing the blade the wrong way.

Now you can easily find that most every page in general knife discussion has at least a couple of threads related to ZT this and ZT that. ZT picture
thread, which ZT should I buy next etc. and so on. Now in this one case ZT didn't $**T gold and everyone is up in arms. Hell, one person is acting
as though she has lost her mind over this thread. Calling members out, name calling and TSK TSKing wtf is that even about? Rhetorical question, please
don't elaborate.

As to bringing other manufacturers into this debate, I don't think that is what this thread is really meant to be about. It's certainly like comparing apples
to oranges as they say, but since the subject has been breached, I will say that I have owned both cold steels and emersons. They are both totally different
than what we are talking about on this 0301 though. I remember cold steel using heavy spine whacks in their promotional videos many years back and they
passed. So what? Is it not possible that they put emphasis during design/manufacture to pass these non-cutting related tests that they demonstrate in their
promotions? I also had an Emerson that folded closed like a slip joint the lock was so poor. No reason to get upset, send it back!

Speaking of promotions "hard use" and "built like a tank" are just words. ZT does not define what other knife uses/tests these are meant to include and I
doubt they ever will. The only thing they really say for certain is "Any use other than cutting is considered misuse and abuse—and will void your warranty."
That is it, plain and simple. No reason to get upset about anything other than a failure to cut. That said, ZT generously sends out FREE replacement parts
AND does warranty work. Why not utilize one of those and get your knife fixed instead of going straight to dissing a brand that obviously has such a huge
following, and offers such a generous service.

I will also note that OP has not been back to reply to any of this, after stirring up this storm and saying that he didn't really want any constructive help anyway.

 

[PURPLEDC]

When you purchase an "overbuilt" folder you make compromises in terms of greater weight, bulkiness, and price. The idea is that you're getting extra strength in return.

It seems that lock failures like OP described are not particularly rare when it comes to ZT's framelocks. Of course they're not common, or ZT would be out of business, but they occur enough that there are a multitude of Youtube videos & forum posts discussing them.

There are lighter & cheaper knives that are not marketed as overbuilt, produced to be overbuilt, or have an overbuilt 'aesthetic', yet seem to withstand much more violent spinewhack tests just fine with much fewer reports of failure. In some cases, it appears that those knives' locks are also stronger in other aspects as well.

So why make the compromise?

I think one thing people tend to overlook is that most people speak up when their expectations are not met. Think about it. You go out to eat and order a filet and you get it and its like eating a shoe. You will probably speak up and complain. Many might even be so appalled they go on yelp and leave a bad review. Had that steak been perfect that person is much less likely to say anything period because teir expectations were met. Also have you ever noticed that many of these threads are started by people with low post counts and less than a month on the board? You rarely EVER get that same person back in the first place let alone get an update on if their expectations were ever finally met. My guess is since we rarely here anything either they got rid of it or they got it back and it works fine yet again because prople complain more than praise we never know the end result.

 

[LadyEarth]

I have had dozens of 0300 and 0200's in and out of my shop for customization. I have never come across one (yet) with lock retention issues. Your generalizations are based on no actual first hand experience with multiple knives of the same model. I can appreciate your passion, but not sure what your deal is with this particular thread. You seem to be on a crusade to validate the fact that misuse of a knife is not relevant to the failures experienced. That being said, I also don't understand the mindset of someone who first posts on a forum before going through the actual steps to rectify a problem. We would love to hear about the issue and experience with CS, but that's not what is being done here.



Just posting about how you saw a lock fail and yours does too provides no value to the forum or the community, and its definitely not indiciative of a flaw in design....especially for a model that has been in production as long as it has. There has been no evidence of any actual "realworld" use that falls within the intended use of the knife. What is the point of this thread?? WOW, a manufacturer has a knife that fails an abuse test....Lots of knives from many manufacturers will fail this test based on many variables. regarding the OP in specific...How old is the knife? What other abuse was it subjected to before the most recent spine whack failure? The OP indicated he cracks nuts & chops ice with the spine (who knows what other abuse it was subjected to)....that over time can also compromise lock integrity by putting undue force on the lock which over time could be the catalyst for the most recent spine whack failure. Just my two cents, but at least I can say I have had relevant experience over time with multiple blades of the same make & model....can you do the same?


knowledge without mileage = bull$hit

1. Please provide me evidences of my "generalization" with these knives since you're so well versed when it comes to living my life and meeting people (friends or not) that expressed the same issues
2. Using the same "generalization" you used on me, you're a scale maker, you don't go out using customer's knives to see if it has integrity or not before putting on a new scale.
3. Just a hint, I'm not the only one that has had issues with the locks. Not only does my own friends that owns the knife had some issues with it, you can see others elsewhere expressing the concerns as well (Don't worry, I have a few friends that also believes that we abused the knife when we used it correctly)
4. I grew up having a knife in my hand (still have a my first knife that gave me my first scar)
5. I am just as passionate as those that said the knife was "used wrongly". I only happen to stand out simply because I'm one of a few that is willing to stand up and express legit concerns about a design in question.

And lastly, Rival.

 

[marcinek]

I don't want to hear anything about how a spine whack is invalid.

One thing to note. Pro tip. That line guarantees you are going to hear that a spine whack is invalid.

 

[LadyEarth]

Snip

I see it as everyone else losing their mind when someone expresses a con and/or has a negative stance against a beloved product thus finding this thread very humorous. I'm personally merely a colorful person.

 

[marcinek]

I see it as everyone else losing their mind when someone expresses a con and/or has a negative stance against a beloved product thus finding this thread very humorous. I'm personally merely a colorful person.

I hardly heard anyone "lose their mind." I heard people express an opinion different that yours, and you called their opinions "trolling" right out of the box.

 

[craytab]

Also Warranty is good and all but more than one ZT 200 and now 300 has those issues. Small wonder the 200 is now discontinued. Perhaps it became too costly fixing each and every 200 (and perhaps 300's) so it can go back to performing as the company intended it to perform.

Each and Every. Exactly what you said.

1. Please provide me evidences of my "generalization" with these knives since you're so well versed when it comes to living my life and meeting people (friends or not) that expressed the same issues.

See the part above where you said that the 200 was probably discontinued because of this issue (also note this thread is about the 300). Further, you speculated that it became to costly for ZT to fix each and every 200. Each and every. Your words. Is that enough of a generalization for you?

Well! If its ad copy on a website it has to be true! Though, I have yet to open a beer and have a bunch of women in bikinis run up to me in slow motion. What gives?

What? That doesn't work for you. Something must be wrong. Every time I open a Corona here in Bethlehem PA I am magically transported to a Tropical Island. I would ask for a refund or maybe send the beer back to the company for warranty service.:thumbup:

One thing to note. Pro tip. That line guarantees you are going to hear that a spine whack is invalid.

Exactly how not to start a nice, discursive thread: no discourse!

 

[craytab]

I see it as everyone else losing their mind when someone expresses a con and/or has a negative stance against a beloved product thus finding this thread very humorous. I'm personally merely a colorful person.

I hardly heard anyone "lose their mind." I heard people express an opinion different that yours, and you called their opinions "trolling" right out of the box.

Also don't forget the making stuff up part. Every single 200 had to be replaced? The 200 was discontinued because of a problem you had? That is very colorful